Soccer Prospect Discussion Thread VI

[cgf]

And yet those guys from Ligue 1 go to EPL and play much better than the guys from the Buli whose gap is seriously too big.

Too true. I mean, just look at the EPL's goal-scoring & assist-giving races. The runaway leaders in both owe everything to Ligue 1

 

[Evilo]

Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.

Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.

 

[bluesfan94]

Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.

Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.

Right about Saliba but Xhaka actually came from BuLi

 

[Evilo]

Look further north.

 

[bluesfan94]

Look further north.

I mean, Walti is phenomenal but I wouldn't consider her better than Xhaka and even if you do, she also came from the BuLi.

 

[cgf]

Man, that's about the first player from the Buli (who was a star before Buli BTW) in 10 years to come and shine right away.

Meanwhile the best CB this year and best DM both come from L1. Among others.

...might want to reword that because in between Erling & KdB:

- Kai won the CL his first season in england. Chelsea have wasted him since then, but he shined early on before sputtering.
- Pulisic produced more in his first EPL season than he ever did in germany...at the senior or youth team level.
- Son never scored in the BuLi the way he does in England.
- Firmino went from 17pts in 2918 BuLi minutes to 18pts in 1983 EPL minutes after LFC bought him.
- Auba went from 16 pts in 16 BuLi matches to 14 pts in 13 EPL matches when he left BVB.
- Arnautovic has hit double-digit goals in the EPL 3 times; his BuLi high was 6.
- Xhaka's best season in the Bundesliga he had 4 pts, he had 4pts his first season with Arsenal and has surpassed that mark 3 times since then...including 5 pts after 10 matches this year.
- Ilkay joined City the year after KdB and has been a staple for them since.
- Pascal Groß has become a staple for Brighton since joining them from Ingolstadt.
- Vitaly Janelt was considered a bust in germany but is now one of 9th placed Brentford's key players.
- Joel Matip -- when not broken -- has been better against EPL attackers than BuLi ones in his career.
And Akanji has been crushing it for City this season after having been much more mediocre his last two seasons in Dortmund...but he was signed after Erling, so I won't count him.


Now if you wanted to rephrase that you could strike Pulisic and maybe Kai from the list, but that still leaves plenty of successful BuLi-to-EPL transfers

 

[Evilo]

Havertz was never convincing.
Pulisic had one good season and is clearly not a star
Son developped in the EPL fine.
Firmino was a long time ago. But OK. He had to meet Klopp to turn into a star.
Auba same.
Arnautovic? Ouch.
And on and on...

I could go and check on the EPL team rosters but really... you know you've got it all lost, there's really no comparison.
And you can add the players we sent to Liga as well. Tchouameni, Camavinga, etc...

Fact is french players export easier than any other nation in big leagues. Players don't even need to shine in France to score a bunch in Buli (see Modeste and Auba for instance).
You certainly can make the argument abotu coaches, I'd have no problem with it. But players? Ridiculous.

So reading about the "gap" between the 4th and 5th league is yet another utterly stupid and ridiculous post by the notorious worst poster on the soccer board.
Case closed.

 

[cgf]

Havertz was never convincing.
Pulisic had one good season and is clearly not a star
Son developped in the EPL fine.
Firmino was a long time ago. But OK.
Auba same.
Arnautovic? Ouch.
And on and aon...

I could go and check on the EPL team rosters but really... you know you've got it all lost, there's really no comparison.
And you can add the players we sent to Liga as well. Tchouameni, Camavinga, etc...

Fact is french players export easier than any other nation in big leagues. Players don't even need to shine in France to score a bunch in Buli (see Modeste and Auba for instance).

So reading about the "gap" between the 4th and 5th league is yet another utterly stupid and ridiculous post by the notorious worst poster on the soccer board.
Case closed.

Feel free to check EPL teams rosters. It would be interesting to see if there were even half as many failed transfers as there were successful ones.

...or if all of those BuLi-bust jokes are just because you guys can't comprehend that Werner & Sancho aren't the only players that EPL clubs have bought from Germany.

 

[Evilo]

I don't think there's any argument for you there. Even bad L1 players like Ayew or Cornet are starting in the EPL.
A guy like Koscielny went from Lorient to Arsenal captain.
A guy went from Caen to virtual EPL MVP in one summer (Kante).
A guy went from L2 to EPL MVP (Mahrez).
etc, etc, etc...

 

[cgf]

I don't think there's any argument for you there. Even bad L1 players like Ayew or Cornet are starting in the EPL.

Then why do you keep trying to argue with me about this?

If you want to argue with PB then quote him. If you want to take vague potshots at the BuLi then I'll continue correcting you when I have time to kill *shrug*

 

[Evilo]

I posted right after him. And I don't need vagues shots at Buli.
He's a Buli fan saying L1 (that he NEVER watches) is further from the 4th league than the 2nd is from the 1st.

Yet, our guys walk into the so called 1st league with ease, even our bad ones.

 

[bluesfan94]

A guy like Koscielny went from Lorient to Arsenal captain.

In his 7th season at Arsenal. Xhaka went from Gladbach to Arsenal captain, too.

 

[luiginb]

Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

...might want to reword that because in between Erling & KdB:

- Kai won the CL his first season in england. Chelsea have wasted him since then, but he shined early on before sputtering.
- Pulisic produced more in his first EPL season than he ever did in germany...at the senior or youth team level.
- Son never scored in the BuLi the way he does in England.
- Firmino went from 17pts in 2918 BuLi minutes to 18pts in 1983 EPL minutes after LFC bought him.
- Auba went from 16 pts in 16 BuLi matches to 14 pts in 13 EPL matches when he left BVB.
- Arnautovic has hit double-digit goals in the EPL 3 times; his BuLi high was 6.
- Xhaka's best season in the Bundesliga he had 4 pts, he had 4pts his first season with Arsenal and has surpassed that mark 3 times since then...including 5 pts after 10 matches this year.
- Ilkay joined City the year after KdB and has been a staple for them since.
- Pascal Groß has become a staple for Brighton since joining them from Ingolstadt.
- Vitaly Janelt was considered a bust in germany but is now one of 9th placed Brentford's key players.
- Joel Matip -- when not broken -- has been better against EPL attackers than BuLi ones in his career.
And Akanji has been crushing it for City this season after having been much more mediocre his last two seasons in Dortmund...but he was signed after Erling, so I won't count him.


Now if you wanted to rephrase that you could strike Pulisic and maybe Kai from the list, but that still leaves plenty of successful BuLi-to-EPL transfers

Akanji was pretty good last season. He gets a bad reputation. He was the least of the problems among our defenders last season. He was sold because of his salary demands. We couldn’t afford Sule and Akanji.

He was also good during the Ruckrunde of the prior season. He had a bad spell in the middle of his stint at the club for a year or year and a half after he injured his hip, but he was an unmitigated success at Dortmund during a time no other defenders were.

 

[bluesfan94]

Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.

MOD

I don't find it really arguable to say that Musiala is an English product; he pretty clearly is. He spent most of his life there before coming to Germany for some finishing. Same with Sancho and Bellingham. In fact, I think that is what the Bundesliga has become very successful at doing - taking 16-18 year olds from across the continent and helping them take that next step from potential to stardom. You can see that with the three I mentioned but also with players like Tel, Haaland, Nkunku, Davies, Gvardiol, Gravenberch, etc.

What I feel like Germany has slowed on some is churning out academy players; Wirtz is the best u-23 player that comes to mind that came from a German academy through to a senior BuLi side (noting that there is some young talent percolating through) and really the other ones out there haven't necessarily hit expectations (Havertz comes to mind). Those things are cyclical, though, and I think the u17 German class (Moukoko, Wanner, Rothe, etc.) is looking better.

 

[cgf]

Let's just say that if I'm a scout right now I'm paying a lot more attention to kids playing in France than I am to ones playing in Germany, but that doesn't change the fact I see the three best U20 players right now plying their trade in the Bundesliga. And Bellingham is an English product, arguably Musiala too.

I never meant to suggest anything other than what you've said here

 

[les Habs]

- In comparison to Musiala he definitely is unproven. There is absolut no way at the moment that anyone would talke Silva over Musiala
-Evilo was the guy measuring players by their goals even when they played completly different positions. I took his own medicine
-I didn't say Camavinga had no key moments but he still was a substitute player wasn't he? He still is btw
-Pedri was clearly the best teenager the last seasons. This season there are some who took their play to next level. That is why I think Musiala/Bellingham are both better at the moment
-That is just my opinion on Gavi. I could be wrong but we will see.
-So what's wrong about this take?

—He’s less proven compared to Musiala, not unproven. There’s a difference. He’s proven based on what he’s done so far, including winning the Uefa Youth League last year and corresponding World club championship and despite those accomplishments being a team effort considering that side he’s the player who is now most integrated into the first team and putting in big performances including in the CL. I’d have gone after him in the fantasy keeper league I’m in but the guy who bid on him first has a player I want.
—If that’s the case, fair enough, but @Evilo knows more than most that there’s more to a player than goals and assists not to mention goals and assists commentary and reactions regarding some of these guys. And again, you’re post I quoted lacked context regarding the two players.
—You said Camavinga was not a key player for Madrid. He clearly was a key player for Madrid in their CL run.
—Pedri is ahead of Musiala and notably more proven.
—That’s great, but I’d love to see all of the overrating of him.
—That you think he’s better than Pedri.

 

[cgf]

Gavi's not over-rated by most people, but certain Barca homers I know have tried to argue that he & Pedri have been on Musiala's level this season, even after the way Jamal toyed with the two of them last month. So he's certainly over-rated by some folks ;-)

 

[John Pedro]

There's a striker on Sao Paulo u15 team named Thierry Henry lol kid is 14y old and 1,95cm long

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The free minutes kids could never.

 

[cgf]

Also Musiala scored again, before having a goal stopped on the goal-line after having beaten the keeper.

While Mouki nabbed a goal & assist

 

[John Pedro]

Endrick scored his first 2 pro goals

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Endrick scored his first 2 pro goals

Who would you compare him to?

Does Mbappe/El Fenomeno hybrid sound right?

 

[cgf]

Caught ~20min of the Barca-Bayern YL game this morning. Really like Wanner, Ibrahimovic, Zvonarek, and Buchmann.

Pity I had to turn it off; Aseko came on for the last 30min and I haven't seen much of him yet.

 

[John Pedro]

Who would you compare him to?

Does Mbappe/El Fenomeno hybrid sound right?

I see more a light version of Romário. Tiny but strong as a bull, great and powerful shot, amazing off ball, natural born scorer, world class technique

Probably a bit faster but less skilled than Romario