So why exactly is MacKinnon better than Matthews again?

[Grifter3511]

I've stated my thoughts to anyone who has quoted me

Okay...I'll lay it out one more time.

For the past few years, Matthews has scored more goals than Mackinnon but Mackinnon has scored at a higher ppg. On his career matthews has more ppg but over the past few years Mackinnon has scored more ppg. Mackinnon is older, yes, but to say that Matthews is currently better when he has consistently scored less ppg is obviously debatable. So enter the 'goals are more important than making your teammates better' argument. And it is a legit argument. One that people can easily come down on either side on.

So based on career stats, Matthews has the potential to have a better career, but at this very moment in time, Mackinnon puts up more points in the regular season, and Matthews puts up more goals.

Now we look at the playoffs, when intensity increases and the games actually mean something. Mackinnon's ppg increase significantly over his regular season numbers, indicating that he steps it up when it matters. In fact, although it is early, he has one of the best playoff ppg in the history of the nhl. Matthews on the other hand, numbers in the playoffs drop off considerably from the regular season, implying that when the intensity and stakes rise, Matthews struggles to perform.

This could all change in time, but how can you address the above and claim that currently Matthews is better than MacKinnon?

 

[WarriorofTime]

He won at least one round

He also plays a on a stacked team

 

[WarriorofTime]

Okay...I'll lay it out one more time.

For the past few years, Matthews has scored more goals than Mackinnon but Mackinnon has scored at a higher ppg. On his career matthews has more ppg but over the past few years Mackinnon has scored more ppg. Mackinnon is older, yes, but to say that Matthews is currently better when he has consistently scored less ppg is obviously debatable. So enter the 'goals are more important than making your teammates better' argument. And it is a legit argument. One that people can easily come down on either side on.

So based on career stats, Matthews has the potential to have a better career, but at this very moment in time, Mackinnon puts up more points in the regular season, and Matthews puts up more goals.

Now we look at the playoffs, when intensity increases and the games actually mean something. Mackinnon's ppg increase significantly over his regular season numbers, indicating that he steps it up when it matters. In fact, although it is early, he has one of the best playoff ppg in the history of the nhl. Matthews on the other hand, numbers in the playoffs drop off considerably from the regular season, implying that when the intensity and stakes rise, Matthews struggles to perform.

This could all change in time, but how can you address the above and claim that currently Matthews is better than MacKinnon?

I don’t just look at points in a vacuum like some. I look at how goals interact with primary assists and secondary assists and come away with the realization that in particular the last couple of seasons that Matthews is a more impactful player. Mack inning is great. I’m not gonna knock him like so many are doing to Matthews for some reason. I just don’t know how you go with anyone other than Matthews for starting a franchise when he is materially younger and the best goal scorer since Ovechkin when there are numerous other point producers you’d have to take ahead of MacKinnon like McDavid and Kucherov.

 

[Grifter3511]

I just don’t know how you go with anyone other than Matthews for starting a franchise when he is materially younger and the best goal scorer since Ovechkin when there are numerous other point producers you’d have to take ahead of MacKinnon like McDavid and Kucherov.[/QUOTE]

Because regardless of how much you want to disregard assists, at the end of the day Mackinnon is involved in more goal scoring events than Matthews. Both in the regular season and in the playoffs (which again, you continue to ignore the playoff portion of the argument which i would argue is the most important part. When the intensity and stakes rise, so does Mackinnon. Whereas Matthews shrinks.)

Edit: and I would say you are using a vacuum where goals are always more important than assists and secondary assists, whereas when you actually watch them play you see that Mackinnon does the grunt work the majority of the time. He undresses guys, moves around the neutral and ozone, draws the attention of multiple players and the goalie, before moving the puck to the open player who is perfectly set up to bury the pass or continue what Mackinnon has created. Granted this isn't every goal, just like not every one of Matthews goals are the result of his amazing stick handing and shot. It works both ways.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I just don’t know how you go with anyone other than Matthews for starting a franchise when he is materially younger and the best goal scorer since Ovechkin when there are numerous other point producers you’d have to take ahead of MacKinnon like McDavid and Kucherov.

Because regardless of how much you want to disregard assists, at the end of the day Mackinnon is involved in more goal scoring events than Matthews. Both in the regular season and in the playoffs (which again, you continue to ignore the playoff portion of the argument which i would argue is the most important part. When the intensity and stakes rise, so does Mackinnon. Whereas Matthews shrinks.)[/QUOTE]
That just sounds like a fancy way of saying more points (the last few seasons, again it is Matthews with the higher career ppg which I think counts for something).

the playoffs are what they are. Neither has gotten out of the second round. Both have a lot more work to do. Mackinnon himself has said he hasn’t done shit in all his years in the league.

 

[Grifter3511]

the playoffs are what they are. Neither has gotten out of the second round. Both have a lot more work to do. Mackinnon himself has said he hasn’t done shit in all his years in the league.[/QUOTE]

Just to be clear...your stance is, playoffs dont matter when it comes to discussing who is better? Thats what it sounds like. I have no idea how quoting mackinnon's comments supports anything.

So I got it now. What you're saying is because Matthews got more points early in his career he is better than Mackinnon, assists don't matter, and playoff scoring is irrelevant. Only regular season points matter, but not current points, which Mackinnon gets more of. Early in their career points, and now goals are all that matter. Great stance. Take care.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I didn’t say that. Let’s just not act like MacKinnon is a champion either.

goal scoring is streaky and the playoffs are short sample. Matthews could easily have 6 goals in a five game series next year and his averages will look great.

 

[Grifter3511]

I didn’t say that. Let’s just not act like MacKinnon is a champion either.

goal scoring is streaky and the playoffs are short sample. Matthews could easily have 6 goals in a five game series next year and his averages will look great.

Well if that happened Matthews playoff ppg would increase to a lofty 0.81.

Whereas Mackinnon could not get a single point for 19 straight playoff games and he would still be at 1 ppg in the playoffs so...

 

[WarriorofTime]

Well if that happened Matthews playoff ppg would increase to a lofty 0.81.

Whereas Mackinnon could not get a single point for 19 straight playoff games and he would still be at 1 ppg in the playoffs so...

My point is when Matthews gets his cup and has a big run his averages will look fine. You can’t overreact to a small sample.

 

[Grifter3511]

My point is when Matthews gets his cup and has a big run his averages will look fine. You can’t overreact to a small sample.

BTW, I keep referencing points in the playoffs but can you guess which of the 2 also scores more goals per game in the playoffs?

And as a bonus, if Matthews did score 6 in 5 can you guess who would have the higher gpg?

 

[WarriorofTime]

BTW, I keep referencing points in the playoffs but can you guess which of the 2 also scores more goals per game in the playoffs?

And as a bonus, if Matthews did score 6 in 5 can you guess who would have the higher gpg?

So you think MacKinnon’s first round Conn Smythe award puts him ahead. Got it. I don’t really agree.

 

[Grifter3511]

So you think MacKinnon’s first round Conn Smythe award puts him ahead. Got it. I don’t really agree.

I definitely think MacKinnons continual play in the first round is just as important as Matthews play in the regular season.

And again, we're debating who is better...regular season you could argue is a toss up. Mack gets more points but Matthews gets more goals. Toss up. So I factor in playoffs, which pushes Mackinnon beyond Matthews any way you look at it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I definitely think MacKinnons continual play in the first round is just as important as Matthews play in the regular season.

And again, we're debating who is better...regular season you could argue is a toss up. Mack gets more points but Matthews gets more goals. Toss up. So I factor in playoffs, which pushes Mackinnon beyond Matthews any way you look at it.

I get what you mean but it’s not apples to oranges. It’s not like they play the same team in the first round.

 

[leafsgirl12]

Because MacKinnon does more than just score goals?

yep very true he does

 

[leafsgirl12]

So now it's only a role? How much of a role? Enough that it makes someone a better leader overall?

I think it's foolish to equate leadership with fighting.

Mackinnon also does more then just score goals

 

[Maitz]

He also plays a on a stacked team

Matthews team is not stacked? Didn’t know that

 

[OppositeLocK]

Matthews team is not stacked? Didn’t know that

There's a lot of hype for a lot of players in Toronto but I don't think they're better than Rantanen, Landeskog, Makar, Saad, Kadri, Burakovsky...

Landeskog > Hyman
Rantanen > Marner
Makar > Reilly

Tavares pretty much equals Kadri

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

You can claim anything you want but you can't prove it so no real point in debating stl/mon.

So you're claiming that Montreal will win? Can we quote that? Fwiw I never said Montreal WAS the 18th best team. I said they could be. Again, it's possible and we don't really know. If they beat Vegas, than clearly they aren't. If they lose to Vegas in say, 5 or less, than its still a possibility that will never be known.

Montreal could very well win. The Aves are literally full of slender defense who practice skating figure 8s instead of playing playoff hockey.

Vegas is about to face an NHL team. Not some bunch of 21 year old slender boys who spend more time on fortnite training their pokemans.

 

[The National]

Contracts aside I’ll still take Mackinnon, gives more in the playoffs, plays a harder game.

 

[Grifter3511]

Montreal could very well win.

I hope they do. At this point I'd like them to win the Cup. I just don't think they will. I'll gladly be wrong though

 

[Grifter3511]

Tavares pretty much equals Kadri

In what world? Unless you mean one was injured when it mattered and the other was suspended?

 

[JeremyTB]

Prior to this shortened season, Mac has had 3 straight 90+ point seasons. Mathews hasn't had more than 80 points in a season. And that doesn't even include the postseason numbers where Mac kills Mathews. Mathews has 24 career playoff points in 5 years of playoff appearances. Mac had more points than that in just 2019-2020 where he had 25.

 

[Grifter3511]

Prior to this shortened season, Mac has had 3 straight 90+ point seasons. Mathews hasn't had more than 80 points in a season. And that doesn't even include the postseason numbers where Mac kills Mathews. Mathews has 24 career playoff points in 5 years of playoff appearances. Mac had more points than that in just 2019-2020 where he had 25.

Don't mention the playoffs. Apparently its not a large enough sample size.
It's not cool to argue how many points Mackinnon has in 50 playoff games but it is totally legit to argue how many goals Matthews was on pace for through 52 games this year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

MacK for sure is better

I'd go with McKinnon too, but I don't think it's as "for sure" as you claim. It's damn close.

Matthews is a WAY better goal scorer, and McKinnon is a better assist-getter & had three consecutive 90+ pt. seasons. Both great regular season performers who have yet to do squat in the post season, really. Both nominated for the Hart & neither will win.

It could go either way, any given year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Don't mention the playoffs. Apparently its not a large enough sample size.
It's not cool to argue how many points Mackinnon has in 50 playoff games but it is totally legit to argue how many goals Matthews was on pace for through 52 games this year.

Don't forget the 47 in 70 he had LAST year, or the 37 in 68 the year before, or the 34 in 62 the year before that, or the 40 in 82 his 1st year.