So why exactly is MacKinnon better than Matthews again?

[BFLO]

MacGinnon blows out bad teams in the playoffs. Matthews hasn't faced a bad team in the playoffs yet.

Lol. Mack lost to the 2nd best team in the league this season and still put up goals/points.

Matthews lost to the 18th best team in the league and was invisible.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Lol. Mack lost to the 2nd best team in the league this season and still put up goals/points.

Matthews lost to the 18th best team in the league and was invisible.

So if Montreal beats Vegas does that mean that Matthews is better because the Leafs went to 7 versus losing in 6 to Vegas? Bad logic.

 

[Grifter3511]

So if Montreal beats Vegas does that mean that Matthews is better because the Leafs went to 7 versus losing in 6 to Vegas? Bad logic.

U can't be serious. Look at the comment he was responding to.

There are literally only TWO people in this entire thread saying Matthews is better and they choose to ignore 75% of the legitimate reasons why Mackinnon is better and then respond to the one or two debatable reasons.

For all intents and purposes, this argument is over and has been explained explicitly to the non believers.

Matthews is still amazing. Every person would love to have him on their team. Its okay that there are a few players better than him in the nhl.

 

[JJ68]

Lol. Mack lost to the 2nd best team in the league this season and still put up goals/points.

Matthews lost to the 18th best team in the league and was invisible.

you could say they lost to one of the 4 best teams in the league, considering they're still standing. Regular season doesnt mean a thing.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

you could say they lost to one of the 4 best teams in the league, considering they're still standing. Regular season doesnt mean a thing.

Regular season means a lot. Especially this year with the unbalanced Divisions when you have matchups like Vegas-Colorado and Tampa-Carolina. It’s not necessarily the top 4 teams left standing.

 

[Grifter3511]

Regular season means a lot. Especially this year when you have matchups like Vegas-Colorado and Tampa-Carolina. It’s not necessarily the top 4 teams left standing.

Its true. Montreal could very well be the 18th best team in the league as well as the best team in the north.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Its true. Montreal could very well be the 18th best team in the league as well as the best team in the north.

Montreal much stronger than St Louis.

What happens when Montreal plays vegas hard and even wins? Is the 18th best in the league better than the best of the West? Do all the west teams rank below 20th?

 

[WarriorofTime]

U can't be serious. Look at the comment he was responding to.

There are literally only TWO people in this entire thread saying Matthews is better and they choose to ignore 75% of the legitimate reasons why Mackinnon is better and then respond to the one or two debatable reasons.

For all intents and purposes, this argument is over and has been explained explicitly to the non believers.

Matthews is still amazing. Every person would love to have him on their team. Its okay that there are a few players better than him in the nhl.

Nothing has been definitively decided... some people say MacKinnon but I think NHL GMs would prefer Matthews due to everything he brings.

 

[Grifter3511]

Nothing has been definitively decided... some people say MacKinnon but I think NHL GMs would prefer Matthews due to everything he brings.

Its fine that you think that. But 90% of the posters in here disagree with you, and that is literally the only thing we have to go off of.

And again, to reiterate the main point: one player's point totals increase when it matters. One player's points decrease when it matters.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I would take Matthews and I imagine 9/10 GMs would as well (there is always that one outlier)

9/10 GMs would not choose Matthews over Mackinnon. Not a snowballs chance in hell.

31/31 would take Mackinnon because Mackinnon is a better player and contracts matter.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Its fine that you think that. But 90% of the posters in here disagree with you, and that is literally the only thing we have to go off of.

And again, to reiterate the main point: one player's point totals increase when it matters. One player's points decrease when it matters.

Look up past HF poll results over the many years this site has operated, many will make you laugh with the benefit of hindsight. Just because the HF hivemind believes something doesn't make it so necessarily.

 

[WarriorofTime]

9/10 GMs would not choose Matthews over Mackinnon. Not a snowballs chance in hell.

31/31 would take Mackinnon because Mackinnon is a better player and contracts matter.

Sorry I didn't mean "at their current contracts" obviously MacKinnon is on a steal of a contract for two more seasons

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Nothing has been definitively decided... some people say MacKinnon but I think NHL GMs would prefer Matthews due to everything he brings.

You keep trying to appeal to the authority of what GMs would do, but you don't provide any reasoning. You're just stating your opinion as some kind of fact.

 

[Grifter3511]

Montreal much stronger than St Louis.

What happens when Montreal plays vegas hard and even wins? Is the 18th best in the league better than the best of the West? Do all the west teams rank below 20th?

You can claim anything you want but you can't prove it so no real point in debating stl/mon.

So you're claiming that Montreal will win? Can we quote that? Fwiw I never said Montreal WAS the 18th best team. I said they could be. Again, it's possible and we don't really know. If they beat Vegas, than clearly they aren't. If they lose to Vegas in say, 5 or less, than its still a possibility that will never be known.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Sorry I didn't mean "at their current contracts" obviously MacKinnon is on a steal of a contract for two more seasons

Even contracts aside (which is dumb because thats unrealistic) why would a GM prefer Matthews?

 

[WarriorofTime]

You keep trying to appeal to the authority of what GMs would do, but you don't provide any reasoning. You're just stating your opinion as some kind of fact.

Yeah but so is everyone else, I admit I don't have some actual survey handy, just a hunch based on how teams tend to operate.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Yeah but so is everyone else, I admit I don't have some actual survey handy, just a hunch based on how teams tend to operate.

But I want to hear the reasoning. GMs would prefer Matthews over Mackinnon because of:

• x
• y
• z

what are x. y. and z? If you're going to make a claim, provide the thought process.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Even contracts aside (which is dumb because thats unrealistic) why would a GM prefer Matthews?

He's just entering his prime and has scored at a 59 goal pace the last two seasons. Look, I like MacKinnon's game a lot too, but you guys are really sleeping on Matthews if you think there isn't something there as to why many prefer him. Despite being materially younger and not getting as many easy secondary assists, he has a higher career PPG. Yes, I know MacKinnon took a long time to hit his stride, but that makes you wonder what Matthews is capable of when he's already essentially a 59 goal scorer.

 

[Grifter3511]

Look up past HF poll results over the many years this site has operated, many will make you laugh with the benefit of hindsight. Just because the HF hivemind believes something doesn't make it so necessarily.

Again, you state an opinion and ignore the argument that you have no rebuttal for. Thats all I need to see how tenuous your position is.

 

[WarriorofTime]

How

But I want to hear the reasoning. GMs would prefer Matthews over Mackinnon because of:

• x
• y
• z

what are x. y. and z? If you're going to make a claim, provide the thought process.

Younger, 59 goal scorer, more consistent throughout his career.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Again, you state an opinion and ignore the argument that you have no rebuttal for. Thats all I need to see how tenuous your position is.

I've stated my thoughts to anyone who has quoted me.

I will admit I have a tough time rebutting arguments like "MacKinnon is just better. He just is" that I keep seeing repeated. I don't really view those as "arguments" though as much as assertions without evidence behind them.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

How

Younger, 59 goal scorer, more consistent throughout his career.

• Matthews has never scored even 50 in a season, so its just a flat out lie to call him a 59 goal scorer. Pace isn't real numbers.
• He's younger, okay but would you take Svechnikov over Matthews for the same logic? Mackinnon is the better player today, we don't know how Matthews will compared when he is the same age 2 years from now. I prefer to deal in absolutes.
• More consistent throughout his career- I heavily disagree. Since Matthews has entered the league Mackinnon has 407 points to Matthews 351. Mackinnon has lead his team in points all 5 of those seasons. Matthews has only lead the leafs in points once. Better even strength and PP production for Mackinnon over the course of Matthews' career, I would call that "more consistent".
• Their playoff production is not even comparable

Matthews is better goalscorer, just about every other category favors Mackinnon. A very small percentage of neutral people would take 34 over 29.

 

[WarriorofTime]

It’s a “flat out lie”? You realize we didn’t play a full 82 either of the last two seasons? Come on, there’s no reason to call me a liar when I even said it was the pace over a larger than 82 game sample.

 

[WarriorofTime]

What does Svechninkov have to do with this discussion?

 

[Maitz]

He won at least one round