Speculation: So who goes?

[Flowah]

Well... Who do we put on line 3 then? Nestrasil is underwhelming. Jurco has been underwhelming. Weiss has been meh for forever now.

Do we try some GR guys? Pulkkinen has that shot but looks like he has no clue what to do at NHL speed. Try out Athanasiou? Man, we need Mantha back.

Jurco and Nestrasil seem like a wash to me thus far so the choice is pretty easy from that perspective. Nesty has to clear waivers, Jurco doesn't. Keep both by sending Jurco down and playing 1st line minutes and get those hands back because right now he can't handle anything.

I don't mind trying out Pulks, A2, or Mantha. But someone else still has to sit to make room for them.

Z, D, Franzen, Nyquist, Sheahan, Tatar, Helm, Abby, Nestrasil, Miller, Glendening, Andersson is 12 regulars. Can't forget Cleary and Weiss either. No matter what, you're waiting for injuries/scratches to call up anyone.

 

[BinCookin]

Well... Who do we put on line 3 then? Nestrasil is underwhelming. Jurco has been underwhelming. Weiss has been meh for forever now.

Um Weiss. Give him his shot to fail. We might be surprised, but he really can't lower his value any more. Its not like Jurco/Nesty are doing things that I don't think Weiss can do. (Not score, and check a little etc)

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Nestrasil is shaping up to be our new Emmerton.

 

[Vladdy84]

It should be Cleary or Nestrasil. I still don't understand what Nestrasil brings to the team.

Nesty has been solid IMO. Not a detriment to the team so I don't mind him playing. But of course would rather have Weiss in.

 

[Kronwalled55]

Um Weiss. Give him his shot to fail. We might be surprised, but he really can't lower his value any more. Its not like Jurco/Nesty are doing things that I don't think Weiss can do. (Not score, and check a little etc)

Not to mention if Detroit's investing 5 mil a season into him, why not give him a chance? He might just develop some chemistry with a couple players and become useful again.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Nestrasil needs to go. don't get me wrong, i like the kid, but im also tired of seeing him on the PP and just not being effective. Im sure that could all change with more experience but i just dont see anything special with him.

 

[Dotter]

If it's between Jurco and Cleary I'm taking Jurco every time. I think Jurco needs to stay up so long as his defensive play isn't suffering. He needs to play and train at this level to get through the rigors of a full NHL season.

When Franzen comes back I could see the lines going:

Abdelkader-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Helm-Datsyuk-Franzen
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Nestrasil-Glendening-Andersson/Miller

Datsyuk's shoulder should be better enough by then to start taking faceoffs again. The Kid line should also get easier matchups to get going offensively.

So you are breaking up the most reliable shut-down line we've seen in years and risking our perfect PK by benching one of our best PKers in favor of letting an underwhelming 21 year old get top 9 minutes, when he can be sent down to GR and build some confidence, and "find his hands" that he stated he left at the airport?

Jurco has been underwhelming and not deserving of his minutes. He should be the first to go down.

I'm with most...it'll probably be Jurco by default but it should be Cleary.

You'd rather Jurco sit in the press box watching games instead of playing top 6 minutes in GR and working on his game/scoring?

 

[TheOtherOne]

Jurco will and should go down to get more minutes, play with the puck some more, score some goals, and get his confidence back.

Dan Cleary can be the 14th forward, but he better not see the ice. If we're to the point that Cleary is up to see ice time, we better call Jurco back up. And Jurco should be called back up before the end of the season.

I can get behind that argument. If Jurco has a chance to dominate some scrubs for a while maybe the next time we call him up he'll be more on top of his game. Might as well give him that chance while we can afford it.

We should still waive Cleary anyway though. Just for fun.

 

[crashman]

Nestrasil needs to go. don't get me wrong, i like the kid, but im also tired of seeing him on the PP and just not being effective. Im sure that could all change with more experience but i just dont see anything special with him.

He had his cup of coffee, it's time for him to hit the road. I think it's doubtful that he gets claimed on waivers so I don't think we'll lose him if we send him to GR.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I think the latter part of that is far more important than anything else. For everyone who wants to send Cleary down, the question would still remain of who we take out of the lineup. And the guy who has probably most played his way out of the lineup is Jurco. He has fallen way short of expectations, seen his ESIT slashed from last season, and has done nothing with the gobs of powerplay time the team has fed him. When looking at the roster, who has outplayed? Maybe Nestrasil? And that's still a maybe.

People want to see Cleary exiled, but sending Jurco down would have more to do with getting the kid's head on straight than it would anything else. Send Jurco down, give him a bunch of minutes and responsibility in GR, and hope he can find his game again. GR's a better option than either seeing increasingly limited minutes in Detroit, or sitting in the pressbox.

If Cleary wasn't still miraculously employed by the team I think sending down Jurco would be the consensus. If Jurco was playing better and got sent down because of Cleary we'd all be pissed. But at this point Jurco probably needs a month or so in GR and I guess Cleary isn't hurting anyone as long as he's in the press box.

I still think we need to get Weiss in the lineup, and Top 6. He does us no good in the bottom 6 and they're paying him $5m to sit in the press box. When Franzen's back, send down Jurco, sit Andersson or Nestrasil and at least give Weiss the opportunity to play himself out of job, unless he's really been that atrocious in practice that he's doing already. He looked ok vs. TOR the other night.

Franzen-Zetterberg-Nyquist
Helm-Datsyuk-Weiss
Tatar-Sheahan-Abdelkader
Miller-Glendening-Andersson/Nestrasil

 

[dtones520]

Because of his play and the fact that he can clear waivers, I'm going with Jurco. Outside of a bit of disappointment in being sent down, he could use the confidence boost by playing top line minutes against lesser competition. Get his game back going for when our next, inevitable, injury happens. Nestrasil hasn't played better or worse than Jurco, he just would have to clear waivers if he is sent down. Plus, he probably isn't part of our long term plan as a team, so putting him in the press box wouldn't hurt him any.

Still wish we could get Weiss out of the press box, it is doing him no good being up there and it is a lot of money to be sitting up there. I can't imagine he wouldn't be producing more than what we have been getting out of some guys. Heck, even Sheahan could use some more seasoning in GR, if you ask me. The kid line has been average this year. I'd be happy with a lineup of something like

Nyquist-Zetteberg-Franzen
Tatar-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Helm-Weiss-Nestrasil
Miller-Glendening-Andersson

Forgive me if I forgot anyone, send Sheahan and Jurco down to get some confidence or keep Sheahan up and put Nesty in the booth. Either way, doesn't matter much. I think Tatar would benefit from playing with Datsyuk and giving Weiss some top 9 minutes could only help him regain some of what we hoped we would get when we signed him. Like i said, benching him does nothing to help him or us.

 

[Boomhower]

Nestrasil had a turrible game last night... that won't help his cause.
Waivers don't worry me with him.

 

[uvgt2bkdnme]

catch-all response:

• there is the issue of replacing someone in the lineup vs. on the roster if Cleary gets waived. though i do see some merit to the idea of doing both waiving Cleary AND sending Jurco down.
• on the flip side, Jurco may not be getting the same ice time, and the results aren't there yet, but Jurco's underlying numbers show a good possession presence without favorable zone starts. i'm inclined to think it's a matter of time before he puts some points up.
• i understand Nestrasil hasn't shown much, but honestly, i think it's worth giving him at least half a season to figure it out. fewer than 10 games when he's not being completely overwhelmed seems like a disservice to him and to the Red Wings' ability to gauge what they have in him.

 

[Boomhower]

catch-all response:

• there is the issue of replacing someone in the lineup vs. on the roster if Cleary gets waived. though i do see some merit to the idea of doing both waiving Cleary AND sending Jurco down.
• on the flip side, Jurco may not be getting the same ice time, and the results aren't there yet, but Jurco's underlying numbers show a good possession presence without favorable zone starts. i'm inclined to think it's a matter of time before he puts some points up.
• i understand Nestrasil hasn't shown much, but honestly, i think it's worth giving him at least half a season to figure it out. fewer than 10 games when he's not being completely overwhelmed seems like a disservice to him and to the Red Wings' ability to gauge what they have in him.

I'm not overly enthusiastic on who it should be, but Nestrasil hadn't even shown much in the AHL. I can't see him being claimed. He looks good along the boards, but hasn't shown anything in open ice or been dangerous in actual scoring areas. His forecheck is only average... and you can't hear it.

Jurco looks like a different player early this year. A step slow on the forecheck and His stride looks like a deer trying to run on asphalt. He looks panicked with the puck too, I'm not sure when his sure hands will return. Maybe a trip to GR will help him find his game, so I can see that angle too.

 

[Heaton]

catch-all response:

• there is the issue of replacing someone in the lineup vs. on the roster if Cleary gets waived. though i do see some merit to the idea of doing both waiving Cleary AND sending Jurco down.
• on the flip side, Jurco may not be getting the same ice time, and the results aren't there yet, but Jurco's underlying numbers show a good possession presence without favorable zone starts. i'm inclined to think it's a matter of time before he puts some points up.
• i understand Nestrasil hasn't shown much, but honestly, i think it's worth giving him at least half a season to figure it out. fewer than 10 games when he's not being completely overwhelmed seems like a disservice to him and to the Red Wings' ability to gauge what they have in him.

Why? What role does he serve short-term and long-term?

 

[Hammettf2b]

Why? What role does he serve short-term and long-term?

My thoughts exactly. I just don't see Nesty doing anything special for us.

 

[BinCookin]

catch-all response:

• there is the issue of replacing someone in the lineup vs. on the roster if Cleary gets waived. though i do see some merit to the idea of doing both waiving Cleary AND sending Jurco down.
• on the flip side, Jurco may not be getting the same ice time, and the results aren't there yet, but Jurco's underlying numbers show a good possession presence without favorable zone starts. i'm inclined to think it's a matter of time before he puts some points up.
• i understand Nestrasil hasn't shown much, but honestly, i think it's worth giving him at least half a season to figure it out. fewer than 10 games when he's not being completely overwhelmed seems like a disservice to him and to the Red Wings' ability to gauge what they have in him.

I am hesitant about the "possesion presence" given to Jurco, when for about 1.5 years now, it has been shown that Tatar and Sheahan are the keys for possesion from this line.

In all Truth, Jurco just hasn't looked great just yet. I would be fine with having him be on the top line in GR for a little while.

Also if we are going to have 7 D men and 14 forwards where we sit 1 D-man almost all year and 2 forwards almost all year.

Then I am ok with Lashoff/Cleary holding those 2 "placeholder" spots all season.

Almost like false depth, when someone gets injured, we call up a kid or if we are on the road, have one of these 2 placeholder's play. Technically anyone in these roster spots is having their career flushed down the toilet, because they are no longer playing.

I am ok With having Nestrasil sit alot of games in his rookie year, because he is out of waiver options.

 

[ap3x]

Why? What role does he serve short-term and long-term?

My thoughts exactly. I just don't see Nesty doing anything special for us.

Is Jurco doing anything special for us right now? If it comes down to decide between Nestrasil and him, I'd choose Nestrasil.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Is Jurco doing anything special for us right now? If it comes down to decide between Nestrasil and him right now, I'd choose Nestrasil.

No, but Jurco has proved it in the past, and I rather give him the benefit of the doubt before Nesty.

 

[Boomhower]

Is Jurco doing anything special for us right now? .

Clearly not, but that's the thing with Jurco, he could be very special in the next game. He has the talent and upside to catch fire.

Nestrasil is going to be the same every game. He may be johnny on the spot and notch a goal here or there... but he doesn't have the talent to be special...

 

[detredWINgs]

Send Jurco down. I don't like the style of game he's playing right now and I think it has a lot to do with Babcock. He's playing an Abdelkader type of role here and it seems like a huge waste of skill. I feel like he could be going down a Filppula-like path in that he's trying to please Babcock so much so that it's affecting his ability to play the game he was made to play. And in the process, it's diluting his offensive capabilities. I'd like to see him go down to Grand Rapids and remember what it's like to be an offensive winger who can carry the play instead of a guy whose offense is secondary to physicality.

As for Nestrasil, I'd keep him in the lineup. Pulkkinen showed nothing in the pre-season or call-ups to make me think he needs an immediate NHL recall. Jurco hasn't been better and is waiver exempt. I'd like to see Weiss but we've got time with him. I'd like to give Nestrasil another 5 games at least before benching him. He's had moments of decency and considering the utter lack of secondary scoring from better players, I can't fault him yet for laying an egg on the scoresheet. Just get him off the PP for now.

 

[ElysiumAB]

It's incredible Dan Cleary is still on this damn roster.

 

[ap3x]

No, but Jurco has proved it in the past, and I rather give him the benefit of the doubt before Nesty.

Sure he did. That's why I'm not talking about sending Jurco down as long-term solution. Just until he got back on track and found the game he's supposed to play.
Recall him when he's ready to go. Right now, Nesty is the better choice, 'cause Jurco is even doing less.

Clearly not, but that's the thing with Jurco, he could be very special in the next game. He has the talent and upside to catch fire.

Nestrasil is going to be the same every game. He may be johnny on the spot and notch a goal here or there... but he doesn't have the talent to be special...

As I've said before, no discussion about talent and ceiling. Jurco wins that one by far. Still, he's not showing what he's capable of right now.
Just bring him back on stage, when he's ready to get his job done.

 

[Detroit Sports*]

It should be Cleary or Nestrasil. I still don't understand what Nestrasil brings to the team.

More than Cleary.

It's incredible Dan Cleary is still on this damn roster.

He will be next year too.

 

[Run the Jewels]

My bet Ken Holland has seen the light and Dan Cleary will be rightfully waived.

Jurco hasn't been lighting the lamp but I don't think his play has been awful. The Kid line has been generating scoring chances. The puck just isn't going in right now. I'd like to see how he does once the Red Wings play lesser opponents.

This is my hope. With both Datsyuk and Mule missing time and Cleary not seeing the ice the writing should be on the wall. Holland can say he gave ol Danny boy a shot but it didn't work out.

The kid line is playing in the opponents end of the ice quite a bit, which is a prelude to scoring. I'd be fine with waiving Nestrasil when the time comes but let's start whittling away the unnecessary players first and there's no one more unnecessary at this point than Cleary. Once Mule is back you can sit Nestrasil and let him continue to work on his game and see if he can develop into a contributor. If not he can be the next forward waived if/when it becomes necessary.