So tell me about Rutherford....

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I've been on the Trevor Timmins bandwagon for a while now. I think it'd be a real coup to land him. It would be a very progressive move for a very geriatric-thinking franchise.

Get a President of Hockey Ops, someone with a high profile who can be the face of management to reporters, then hire Timmins to be the real GM. I think that setup would work nicely. Something very similar to the Flames' setup with Burke as President of Hockey Ops and Brad Treliving as GM. In fact, Burke has been significantly LOW-profile in Calgary, and he has let Treliving be his own person. But that setup is something I envision for us.

But we would have to suffer an embarrassing first-round exit in order for us to contemplate cleaning house, imo.

We're probably stuck with JR and the consortium.

I kind of wonder if that's more or less how the Penguins view their current set up, though. It sounds like one or more of the AGMs engineered the Despres trade and JR was the point man, both for contacting other teams and dealing with media. The titles are different but the inner workings may be similar.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Ya, well I was never a huge fan of the strategy anyways and I'm sure I wasn't alone. Of course I've also said that plucking an NHL player from the later rounds every once in awhile, of any caliber, would've helped immensely to swallow all this. All in all the whole "puck-moving Dmen are worth their weight in gold" was never something I bought into so whatever. Ya if they're all as good as Pouliot and Maatta maybe they are. If not you've just got a bunch of prospects that every team pretty much has.

I'm pretty sure Maatta and DP could have been moved last deadline for something pretty substantial if Shero was so inclined.

Either way, having a stable of talented young blueliners should have meant it made guys on the big league roster expendable and if they had at least a couple of these guys on ELCs on the roster, it would have opened up more cap room.

Instead they signed Scuds/Ehrhoff and held on to Nisky/Orpik, when at least one should have been moved last season at the deadline.

The Ducks I believe, now have 4 guys 23 or under on their blueline and they are just as likely to win a cup as the Pens IMHO.

I agree, though my big sticking point with a lot of people on this board is I think it has a lot to do with some players just not being that great talent-wise. It seems like the thing to do now is throw literally all of the blame on the staff, when in all likelihood it's probably because they just haven't drafted that well. Most of the defensemen AND forwards for that matter that everyone has pined over the past 5 years simply weren't anything special, or even not very good at all.

If all of these prospects do blow, then I have some bad news to tell you...

We have the exact same scouts and front office who drafted these guys, save Shero. JR wasn't exactly known for developing a deep farm in Carolina, so I don't see how he becomes the lone wolf that changes things.

Of course, the Ducks didn't have a problem developing Lovejoy into a good player for their org. However, I was told around these parts he was an AHLer.

The Ducks just have some weird potato voodoo I think. It's probably that.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm pretty sure Maatta and DP could have been moved last deadline for something pretty substantial if Shero was so inclined.

Either way, having a stable of talented young blueliners should have meant it made guys on the big league roster expendable and if they had at least a couple of these guys on ELCs on the roster, it would have opened up more cap room.

Instead they signed Scuds/Ehrhoff and held on to Nisky/Orpik, when at least one should have been moved last season at the deadline.

The Ducks I believe, now have 4 guys 23 or under on their blueline and they are just as likely to win a cup as the Pens IMHO.



If all of these prospects do blow, then I have some bad news to tell you...

We have the exact same scouts and front office who drafted these guys, save Shero. JR wasn't exactly known for developing a deep farm in Carolina, so I don't see how he becomes the lone wolf that changes things.

Of course, the Ducks didn't have a problem developing Lovejoy into a good player for their org. However, I was told around these parts he was an AHLer.

The Ducks just have some weird potato voodoo I think. It's probably that.

Point taken on Lovejoy. I never thought he'd be anything more at the age he left, and Despres was coming along well and I won't be surprised to see him have a good career, albeit surrounded by a better overall D corps than we have but who cares.

We'll see. Honestly deeming guys worthy or not worthy of praise when they still are developing is a fool's errand. Lovejoy had one really nice year, then this year was just okay. Maybe Despres will be a fixture beside a guy like Alex Pietrangelo in the future, or maybe he'll be a #5. Doesn't change the trade's wackiness as of now though.

As for the scouting staff, at the time of all the changes I decided to focus on the positives and ignore it for the sake of my sanity.

 

[IcedCapp]

The Ducks I believe, now have 4 guys 23 or under on their blueline and they are just as likely to win a cup as the Pens IMHO.

depends on what they do with Despres after injuries, but yes:

Lindholm (21), Fowler (23), Despres (23), Vatanen (23)

 

[Captain Hook]

The thing Anaheim has is Bruce Boudreau. I know we like to pick on him since he was the Caps coach but he is great at developing young players, imo.

 

[JackFr]

That's the biggest problem with our management, is the belief that you win with veterans and that young players are just chips you use to get veterans. Free agents are expensive and our cap situation will never be good, so when we waste these ELC it's so frustrating.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

The thing Anaheim has is Bruce Boudreau. I know we like to pick on him since he was the Caps coach but he is great at developing young players, imo.

Only thing I like about Boudreau is the one thing this team has been sorely missing since Therrien: A hard-ass coach that won't hesitate to lay into his team if he sees them dogging it.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Rick Dudley is another guy out of Montreal's front office that warrants a look as well.

I will add this-if the Despres move was indeed Botterill's baby (as some are reporting) then his stock has sunk significantly downward. Anyone who's that poor a judge of talent I absolutely do not want running the show.

Not a fan of Dudley, personally I think he's old school. He is doing well in Montreal but that's mainly because of the rest of the guys Bergevin has surrounded himself with.

I've been on the Trevor Timmins bandwagon for a while now. I think it'd be a real coup to land him. It would be a very progressive move for a very geriatric-thinking franchise.

Get a President of Hockey Ops, someone with a high profile who can be the face of management to reporters, then hire Timmins to be the real GM. I think that setup would work nicely. Something very similar to the Flames' setup with Burke as President of Hockey Ops and Brad Treliving as GM. In fact, Burke has been significantly LOW-profile in Calgary, and he has let Treliving be his own person. But that setup is something I envision for us.

But we would have to suffer an embarrassing first-round exit in order for us to contemplate cleaning house, imo.

We're probably stuck with JR and the consortium.

Would love Timmins, I think he is exactly what this franchise needs. He can keep our team competitive while being smart at the draft, something this franchise desperately needs.

But I agree, something bad would have to happen, a 4 game sweep in round 1 or even us missing the playoffs!

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Point taken on Lovejoy. I never thought he'd be anything more at the age he left, and Despres was coming along well and I won't be surprised to see him have a good career, albeit surrounded by a better overall D corps than we have but who cares.

We'll see. Honestly deeming guys worthy or not worthy of praise when they still are developing is a fool's errand. Lovejoy had one really nice year, then this year was just okay. Maybe Despres will be a fixture beside a guy like Alex Pietrangelo in the future, or maybe he'll be a #5. Doesn't change the trade's wackiness as of now though.

As for the scouting staff, at the time of all the changes I decided to focus on the positives and ignore it for the sake of my sanity.

Basically we need a suspect scouting staff to only draft studs that won't have these costly growing pains.

Seems reasonable. I feel hopeful.

 

[MtlPenFan]

The thing Anaheim has is Bruce Boudreau. I know we like to pick on him since he was the Caps coach but he is great at developing young players, imo.

Because he seems to be willing to let guys grow and live with their mistakes.

This is the guy who (rightfully) benched Selanne last year because even he realized that being a legend does't always make you helpful in the present. Think about the balls that took.

Oh, and Brooks Laich was a healthy scratch the other day for Trotz.

 

[plaidchuck]

Oh come on, Boudreau blows too. He's had a stacked team for two different franchises and can't even sniff a conference finals.

It would be funny to see how quick the team or.stars would give up on a tough coach now like torterella or somebody. The players will always rule the roost with this organization until a certain someone is not an owner anymore unfortunately..

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Because he seems to be willing to let guys grow and live with their mistakes.

This is the guy who (rightfully) benched Selanne last year because even he realized that being a legend does't always make you helpful in the present. Think about the balls that took.

Oh, and Brooks Laich was a healthy scratch the other day for Trotz.

He also benched AO, then got called a "fat ****" and lost his job.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Basically we need a suspect scouting staff to only draft studs that won't have these costly growing pains.

Seems reasonable. I feel hopeful.

It was a general statement on their drafting outside the first round which has killed us.

 

[Captain Hook]

Oh come on, Boudreau blows too. He's had a stacked team for two different franchises and can't even sniff a conference finals.

Boudreau has his flaws. He does seem to struggle as a big game coach in the playoffs. I was just saying his strength to me is that he is excellent at coaching up young players. Laviolette is another guy that is very good at coaching up young players, imo.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

It was a general statement on their drafting outside the first round which has killed us.

Say what? Outside the first round?

Bro, once they ghost BB this summer, that leaves them with table scraps from their first rounders in 2007-2011. Then you look at their other picks, and they haven't even developed a bottom pairing blueliner or a fourth liner, outside of Maatta (we hope) since their cup win.

So either the big club blows at developing talent or their scouts can't find the talent.

So it leaves us with my qualifier above.

 

[66-30-33]

Minus the Despres trade, guy has been great here. Yes we lost picks, but we also got Perron and Winnik assuming he re-signs. Once Pens get 1 more top 6 forward that can create space for Malkin, our 1st and 2nd round picks wont be needed to be traded. 2 years from now Pens roster hopefully will be hard to play against and have plenty of toughness throughout the forwards. I dunno if Despres was a JR move because his other moves he has made since being a Pen has said otherwise. He was probably pushed by Mario, the assistants and the other GM to deal him for Lovejoy.

 

[plaidchuck]

Whats with the doubt with maatta? Barring issues with his injuries, the kid will be a top flight gamer for years to come, he's proven that.

 

[66-30-33]

Whats with the doubt with maatta? Barring issues with his injuries, the kid will be a top flight gamer for years to come, he's proved that.

His thyroid issue i am guessing. Maatta may never be the same player again, or he can still play at the top level, we wont know untill next season which Maatta we will get.

 

[SaintLouHaintBlue]

He also benched AO, then got called a "fat ****" and lost his job.

Were all three of those things related?

 

[IcedCapp]

His thyroid issue i am guessing. Maatta may never be the same player again, or he can still play at the top level, we wont know untill next season which Maatta we will get.

I'm more concerned with the shoulder

 

[MrBurghundy]

I'm more concerned with the shoulder

Wasn't Melichar decent, had 2 shoulder surgeries, and then turned into a giant turd on ice. Not even remotely equating the two players talent level, just making a comment.

 

[cassius]

Guys - why bother discussing the future?

We know that with Mario in command, this franchise isn't going to make any smart moves anytime soon.

Hate to say it because the guy is a god, but Mario is shaping up to be the Jerry Jones of NHL franchises.

I see where he's coming from though. He is running a business that prints $$ and will for the foreseeable future, regardless of the moves that he makes.

 

[IcedCapp]

Wasn't Melichar decent, had 2 shoulder surgeries, and then turned into a giant turd on ice. Not even remotely equating the two players talent level, just making a comment.

several surgeries to the same shoulder IIRC.

I could deal with one, but having two SO CLOSE TOGETHER really has me concerned for this kid's future.

Guess the Pens are okay with it, though.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I honestly question if the Despres/Lovejoy trade was really his brain child and his alone. I doubt it very much...

There is no way on any planet that the Despres trade cancels out acquiring Perron for a draft pick. None. No matter how many posts on HF there are about Despres (I think we're up to 6 million).

My point isn't so much about balancing value as... one trade was a real pleasant surprise and we all thought "wow this was a great move, maybe Geriatric Jimmy isn't so terrible"... and then he made the Trade Heard Round The World and we thought "wow this was a ****ing terrible move, maybe this guy / the people advising him really are dumbasses!"

Hence, cancel each other other, leaving us with the other trades and acquisitions to ponder. One was as good as the other was bad. Maybe.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Were all three of those things related?

I think hot wings had something to do with one of those things....