So tell me about Rutherford....

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I mean, as much as I dislike the Despres trade, I still think Rutherford's year so far has been solid. None of his other deals would really rate below a B- and I don't think any of them could reasonably called genuinely bad. I mean the "worst" is probably Samuelsson for Klinkhammer, if only because it was pretty meaningless, despite Klinkhammer being packaged for Perron.

I'm also not going to hate on the guy for not doing kind fantastical stuff like shipping out all the perceived garbage.

 

[SarahCrash]

One thing about JR is that he is a busy GM. There has been alot of activity on the roster front since he came in. Some would say that is typical for Pittsburgh, and maybe so...

 

[AquaticBirdman]

My point isn't so much about balancing value as... one trade was a real pleasant surprise and we all thought "wow this was a great move, maybe Geriatric Jimmy isn't so terrible"... and then he made the Trade Heard Round The World and we thought "wow this was a ****ing terrible move, maybe this guy / the people advising him really are dumbasses!"

Hence, cancel each other other, leaving us with the other trades and acquisitions to ponder. One was as good as the other was bad. Maybe.

Agreed. However for the most part I'm not gonna completely dump on him yet. If you keep it in perspective JR came into a complete mess of a situation that was left to him by Shero. This team had A LOT of work to be done in terms of its roster, and in less than 1 season he's managed to fix a lot of htings that have needed fixing, mainly in regards to our bottom 6 and our top 6 winger situation.

Does the Despres trade blow? Absolutely. However is it a move thats going to potentially cripple this team? Not in the slightest. We still have blue chippers like Harrington and Dumoulin to look forward to, meanwhile Pouliot seems like hes 100% ready to make the full time jump to the big leagues. If our blue line is comprised of Letang, Maata, Pouliot, Harrington, and Dumoulin in the next couple of years is anyone really gonna care about Simon Despres all that much? I highly doubt it. Of course, we'll likely still have Scuderi on the team as well

 

[IcedCapp]

Agreed. However for the most part I'm not gonna completely dump on him yet. If you keep it in perspective JR came into a complete mess of a situation that was left to him by Shero. This team had A LOT of work to be done in terms of its roster, and in less than 1 season he's managed to fix a lot of htings that have needed fixing, mainly in regards to our bottom 6 and our top 6 winger situation.

Does the Despres trade blow? Absolutely. However is it a move thats going to potentially cripple this team? Not in the slightest. We still have blue chippers like Harrington and Dumoulin to look forward to, meanwhile Pouliot seems like hes 100% ready to make the full time jump to the big leagues. If our blue line is comprised of Letang, Maata, Pouliot, Harrington, and Dumoulin in the next couple of years is anyone really gonna care about Simon Despres all that much? I highly doubt it. Of course, we'll likely still have Scuderi on the team as well

Harrington and Dumoulin aren't "blue chippers"

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Harrington and Dumoulin aren't "blue chippers"

Debatable. Highly depends on how well they continue to develop. At the very least both will turn out to at least be solid top 4 d-men, which is good enough for me. It's not like Despres was the second coming of Bobby Orr either.

 

[IcedCapp]

Debatable. Highly depends on how well they continue to develop. At the very least both will turn out to at least be solid top 4 d-men, which is good enough for me. It's not like Despres was the second coming of Bobby Orr either.

No one.....lfkgjdfgndjkdjghhejloghsweipjgfawk[pqgfjswdisfgjsdfk[gj

has argued...fgdfkgjdfrk;jgk[pjdfjgkl;[defj[pdfjgdfjgkdfjg;dfjgk;sdfjg;dfjg;

that Despres.... gfkhjdfghjdfojdfpjidfpjgdefk;hjgdfjkl;dfl;djk;dfjg;dfjg;dfnjg;

is the second coming... kghjdfkljglkdfjkl;dfjkl;dfjl;dfjk;dfjgk;dfjpdfjkdfjgk;dfjgk;dfj

of Bobby Orr.

But he is bother than both of those players, and he's the same age as Brian Dumoulin.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

No one.....lfkgjdfgndjkdjghhejloghsweipjgfawk[pqgfjswdisfgjsdfk[gj

has argued...fgdfkgjdfrk;jgk[pjdfjgkl;[defj[pdfjgdfjgkdfjg;dfjgk;sdfjg;dfjg;

that Despres.... gfkhjdfghjdfojdfpjidfpjgdefk;hjgdfjkl;dfl;djk;dfjg;dfjg;dfnjg;

is the second coming... kghjdfkljglkdfjkl;dfjkl;dfjl;dfjk;dfjgk;dfjpdfjkdfjgk;dfjgk;dfj

of Bobby Orr.

But he is bother than both of those players, and he's the same age as Brian Dumoulin.

But bro, he's not Paul Coffey. Get over it. We got The Reverend back n'at!

 

[kodoshin]

Debatable. Highly depends on how well they continue to develop. At the very least both will turn out to at least be solid top 4 d-men, which is good enough for me. It's not like Despres was the second coming of Bobby Orr either.

At the very least? An overly optimistic view of potential prospect development if I ever heard one. Despres had certainly shown such potential, but neither of those two have shown me anything to inspire belief that they could be anything more than serviceable bottom pairing guys.

 

[Pens1566]

I've been generally ok with what JR has done up until the Despres trade. There are things I wish he would have done, but can't fault him on it.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

At the very least? An overly optimistic view of potential prospect development if I ever heard one. Despres had certainly shown such potential, but neither of those two have shown me anything to inspire belief that they could be anything more than serviceable bottom pairing guys.

I have no idea what analysis method you are using to determine that Harrington and Dumo are going be nothing but average bottom pairing players. That's simply not an accurate analysis, and no one that's watched them for any length of time thinks that.

This org already has a legit #1 Dman in Letang, and (2) blue chip young D men that project to top pairing D men in Maatta and Pouliot. The next tier of D prospects includes Harrington and Dumo, who project to good middle pairing defenders. And then we added Cole for depth, and have the salary cap space this offseason to sign a middle pairing defender. And Lovejoy signed for next year as a bridge.

So our issue really is not defensive depth. We need size and speed on the wing and a bigger, more physical 3C. The Despres deal was not good value, but it certainly doesn't cancel out the Perron deal. Young top line wings don't grow on trees.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

No one.....lfkgjdfgndjkdjghhejloghsweipjgfawk[pqgfjswdisfgjsdfk[gj

has argued...fgdfkgjdfrk;jgk[pjdfjgkl;[defj[pdfjgdfjgkdfjg;dfjgk;sdfjg;dfjg;

that Despres.... gfkhjdfghjdfojdfpjidfpjgdefk;hjgdfjkl;dfl;djk;dfjg;dfjg;dfnjg;

is the second coming... kghjdfkljglkdfjkl;dfjkl;dfjl;dfjk;dfjgk;dfjpdfjkdfjgk;dfjgk;dfj

of Bobby Orr.

But he is bother than both of those players, and he's the same age as Brian Dumoulin.

Ah I see. So I suppose we're not even going to give either of those players the benefit of at least 1 full season at the NHL level before making such an assessment?

Makes perfect...sdlfsdjhnsfkljgfhdgkjfdghfdj

sense...sdlfgjhdgkljfdghfdgklfdhgfdkjhgf

to....flsdfkjhfkljhkjgfhfdj

me....fgfjghkjdghfdgkjffghkdhgfkjfhdgkjfdghfdkjgfdghfdkgfhdj

 

[AquaticBirdman]

At the very least? An overly optimistic view of potential prospect development if I ever heard one. Despres had certainly shown such potential, but neither of those two have shown me anything to inspire belief that they could be anything more than serviceable bottom pairing guys.

Because the sample size of NHL games that they've played is sufficient enough evidence, right? Some players take a year or two longer to develop than others. It's ridiculous to suggest that they somehow won't be anything more than serviceable bottom-pairing d-men simply because they haven't been able to solidify NHL jobs as fast as Despres has.

We really are a fickle fanbase.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't think you know the definition of a "blue chipper"

 

[billybudd]

No one.....lfkgjdfgndjkdjghhejloghsweipjgfawk[pqgfjswdisfgjsdfk[gj

has argued...fgdfkgjdfrk;jgk[pjdfjgkl;[defj[pdfjgdfjgkdfjg;dfjgk;sdfjg;dfjg;

that Despres.... gfkhjdfghjdfojdfpjidfpjgdefk;hjgdfjkl;dfl;djk;dfjg;dfjg;dfnjg;

is the second coming... kghjdfkljglkdfjkl;dfjkl;dfjl;dfjk;dfjgk;dfjpdfjkdfjgk;dfjgk;dfj

of Bobby Orr.

But he is bother than both of those players, and he's the same age as Brian Dumoulin.

Someone in the main board thread said he's a 23 year old Shea Weber. Forget who it was.

 

[Offtheboard412]

Because the sample size of NHL games that they've played is sufficient enough evidence, right? Some players take a year or two longer to develop than others. It's ridiculous to suggest that they somehow won't be anything more than serviceable bottom-pairing d-men simply because they haven't been able to solidify NHL jobs as fast as Despres has.

We really are a fickle fanbase.

It's a lot less ridiculous than penciling them in as top 4 d-men.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

It's a lot less ridiculous than penciling them in as top 4 d-men.

I was insinuating that they are POTENTIAL top 4 d-men, which is what they've been billed as being by numerous scouting reports in the past as well. It seems as though people are only reading what they want to see rather than what's actually trying to be communicated. To make matters worse it's sad that people are even willing to go so far as to put down our other highly-regarded blue line prospects just to justify their opinions that Despres is somehow more than what he actually is.

In all honesty I find it laughable that people are still even making a big issue over this trade days later. Thank god we aren't Philadelphia Eagles fans, eh?

 

[AquaticBirdman]

Someone in the main board thread said he's a 23 year old Shea Weber. Forget who it was.

With the pissing and moaning that's been going on around here you'd think it were true.

 

[IcedCapp]

Someone in the main board thread said he's a 23 year old Shea Weber. Forget who it was.

Shea Weber isn't as good as Bobby Orr!

(and there's going to be bad apples on both sides of any big discussion)

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I was insinuating that they are POTENTIAL top 4 d-men, which is what they've been billed as being by numerous scouting reports in the past as well. It seems as though people are only reading what they want to see rather than what's actually trying to be communicated. To make matters worse it's sad that people are even willing to go so far as to put down our other highly-regarded blue line prospects just to justify their opinions that Despres is somehow more than what he actually is.

In all honesty I find it laughable that people are still even making a big issue over this trade days later. Thank god we aren't Philadelphia Eagles fans, eh?

It's not Despres being gone, aside from a few people, that has people pissed off. It's the mindset.

I remember after Morrow was dealt... Well.. We still have blah blah Despres blah blah. When BB is gone, more excuses will come out, but those people won't focus on how they no longer have any of their first rounders from 2007-2011 contributing to the team.

They continue to **** away assets worrying about "experience". I haven't seen one national media outlet not scratch their head over this trade. It's ****ing odd and even if Lovejoy plays well, you can't piss away a guy like Despres like that.

 

[AquaticBirdman]

It's not Despres being gone, aside from a few people, that has people pissed off. It's the mindset.

I remember after Morrow was dealt... Well.. We still have blah blah Despres blah blah. When BB is gone, more excuses will come out, but those people won't focus on how they no longer have any of their first rounders from 2007-2011 contributing to the team.

They continue to **** away assets worrying about "experience". I haven't seen one national media outlet not scratch their head over this trade. It's ****ing odd and even if Lovejoy plays well, you can't piss away a guy like Despres like that.

My only issue with the trade was the return, agreed 110%. I think the future of our blue line is still very bright, even with Despres gone. However it does definitely irk me that we sent him packing for a 30 year old bottom-pairing rental.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

My only issue with the trade was the return, agreed 110%. I think the future of our blue line is still very bright, even with Despres gone. However it does definitely irk me that we sent him packing for a 30 year old bottom-pairing rental.

Where is this coming from? Lovejoy is definitely not that. He looked more than solid in his very first game back, and has handled lots of tough minutes the last few years. And he's not a rental, he is signed through next year.

I have zero problem with Lovejoy the player as a reliable and legit mid pairing guy right now, I have an issue with the value, and giving up on another young guy.

Losing the value side of the deal makes the path to putting together a proper roster more difficult, but certainly not impossible.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

My only issue with the trade was the return, agreed 110%. I think the future of our blue line is still very bright, even with Despres gone. However it does definitely irk me that we sent him packing for a 30 year old bottom-pairing rental.

We have no guarantees about the rest of the guys though. Despres was coming along and just needed time IMHO.

We have no idea about Maatta going fwd, especially. Harrington and Dumo I like, but who knows what JR will do with a guy like Dumo who can't pass through waivers next season. I'm sure he will have to beat out some hang around vet like Scuds for playing time.

Like I've been saying, until I see differently, I'm just going to assume most of these young guys will be ****ed up and a majority of them sold low. That has been the trend and I've seen nothing to suggest it won't happen.

 

[IcedCapp]

Ah I see. So I suppose we're not even going to give either of those players the benefit of at least 1 full season at the NHL level before making such an assessment?

Makes perfect...sdlfsdjhnsfkljgfhdgkjfdghfdj

sense...sdlfgjhdgkljfdghfdgklfdhgfdkjhgf

to....flsdfkjhfkljhkjgfhfdj

me....fgfjghkjdghfdgkjffghkdhgfkjfhdgkjfdghfdkjgfdghfdkgfhdj

Determinations were made on Despres before one-full season.

But that's not my point. From a value standpoint, they went (imo)

Blue chips

Maatta
Pouliot

Red chips

Despres

White chips

Harrington
Dumoulin


Value aside, I don't think Harrington or Dumoulin will be better than Despres, though Harrington will he different and fill his role perfectly.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Blue chips

Maatta
Pouliot

Potato chips

Despres

White chips

Harrington
Dumoulin

I edited your post for better accuracy.

 

[IcedCapp]

I edited your post for better accuracy.

hahahahahah

okay, but outside of that, do you agree?