So, maybe we should at least ask the question. (Helm's contract)

[Satrebil]

Right. Why are people wringing their hands about Helm walking? His skill set is a commodity in this league.

 

[Claypool]

I wish this statement could been corroborated. I remain skeptical.

It came from Dreger. Who many take as gospel around here. It is what it is.

Right. Why are people wringing their hands about Helm walking? His skill set is a commodity in this league.

Speed is certainly not a commodity in this league.

 

[Satrebil]

It came from Dreger. Who many take as gospel around here. It is what it is.



Speed is certainly not a commodity in this league.

I beg to differ.

 

[The Zermanator]

It was suggested that there were three other teams looking to sign Helm for much more money than he got in Detroit. So if that's the case Helm likely walks. Now what?

"Thank you for your service."

 

[jkutswings]

It was suggested that there were three other teams looking to sign Helm for much more money than he got in Detroit. So if that's the case Helm likely walks. Now what?

In that hypothetical scenario, assuming you have at least an average front office, you should like your odds to be able to use those funds to find another player that benefits the roster to an equivalent or better degree.

Fast guys that score 10-15 goals and kill penalties aren't exactly cornerstones to begin with, but specifically, it's my opinion that losing Helm and adding a defenseman - via UFA, an offer sheet, or greater cap room in making a trade - would benefit the franchise more.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It was suggested that there were three other teams looking to sign Helm for much more money than he got in Detroit. So if that's the case Helm likely walks. Now what?

You find out what Sheahan and Glendening are made of and have some cap space in your back pocket as you keep trying to fix the defense over the next few years.

 

[Bench]

You find out what Sheahan and Glendening are made of and have some cap space in your back pocket as you keep trying to fix the defense over the next few years.

Exactly. Area of need takes precedence. Leaving no room to make a play for a free agent defender was puzzling.

Helm's contract represents the status quo from Holland and management. That's the big issue. Sign the loyal veterans to deals that take them to their twilight while the team continues to struggle to find minutes for cheaper replacements while clawing to make the playoffs.

None of this is Helm's fault. The guy signed what was offered to him and got to play where he wanted. I don't blame him one bit. Nor did I ever blame Cleary. But they serve as the effigy for our frustrations. An embodiment of the mediocrity and stale nature of the roster.

 

[Claypool]

You find out what Sheahan and Glendening are made of and have some cap space in your back pocket as you keep trying to fix the defense over the next few years.

You're rolling the dice that these defensemen you're referring to even become available and Detroit is one of the lucky teams to land them. The majority of teams are near the cap limit already. Any trades, whether to Detroit or somewhere else, will require salary going back. You're not getting Fowler or Trouba for draft picks. You're not getting a young, stud defenseman as part of a cap dump. Anaheim isn't giving away Fowler just so they can sign Lindholm. It's fantasy land talk.

 

[jkutswings]

You're rolling the dice that these defensemen you're referring to even become available and Detroit is one of the lucky teams to land them. The majority of teams are near the cap limit already. Any trades, whether to Detroit or somewhere else, will require salary going back. You're not getting Fowler or Trouba for draft picks. You're not getting a young, stud defenseman as part of a cap dump. Anaheim isn't giving away Fowler just so they can sign Lindholm. It's fantasy land talk.

That's not what was implied.

You MIGHT be able to trade Tatar and some extra, in exchange for a guy like Fowler...if you make it worth Anaheim's while, in taking back a headache in return, or in paying a bit of salary, or several other options that require at least a little bit of cap flexibility. But when you're right up against it, you literally have no wiggle room for anything creative, because unless every last salary is equal down to the dollar, you're screwed.

 

[Claypool]

That's not what was implied.

You MIGHT be able to trade Tatar and some extra, in exchange for a guy like Fowler...if you make it worth Anaheim's while, in taking back a headache in return, or in paying a bit of salary, or several other options that require at least a little bit of cap flexibility. But when you're right up against it, you literally have no wiggle room for anything creative, because unless every last salary is equal down to the dollar, you're screwed.

If Detroit has $6-7 million in cap space, Anaheim isn't offering you Fowler. They'll try and pawn Despres or Bieksa off on you by throwing in draft picks and prospects. Detroit becomes a cap dump team like Carolina or Arizona. Fowler is a UFA after next season, you're still then willing to take back a bad, long-term contract (likely Despres)? I don't even know how this is effected by the expansion draft. That would be a terrible idea.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You're rolling the dice that these defensemen you're referring to even become available and Detroit is one of the lucky teams to land them. The majority of teams are near the cap limit already. Any trades, whether to Detroit or somewhere else, will require salary going back. You're not getting Fowler or Trouba for draft picks. You're not getting a young, stud defenseman as part of a cap dump. Anaheim isn't giving away Fowler just so they can sign Lindholm. It's fantasy land talk.

I said "keep trying to fix the defense over the next few years."

And yes, signing talented players is always difficult. It usually involves rolling the dice. Being a GM is a tough job.

 

[Winger98]

Exactly. Area of need takes precedence. Leaving no room to make a play for a free agent defender was puzzling.

Helm's contract represents the status quo from Holland and management. That's the big issue. Sign the loyal veterans to deals that take them to their twilight while the team continues to struggle to find minutes for cheaper replacements while clawing to make the playoffs.

None of this is Helm's fault. The guy signed what was offered to him and got to play where he wanted. I don't blame him one bit. Nor did I ever blame Cleary. But they serve as the effigy for our frustrations. An embodiment of the mediocrity and stale nature of the roster.

Eh, I'm fine blaming Helm and Cleary. Maybe if we boo them enough they'll grow tired of showing up and ask for a trade.

Anyone think entrenching Helm as the 3C and moving Sheahan around says something about how management is feeling about Sheahan these days?

 

[lomekian]

To address the OP, If Helm breaks 35 points for 4 of the 5 years I'll be happy. Looking at this year in isolation, if they keep the same line together, I'm expecting 40 points, because I think Nike and Vanek will top 50 over the whole season.

Ultimately, it depends on health and what the club can do about other worse contracts on the team. If next summer we lose Howard and Ericsson without giving up any assets, this deal will look a lot more palatable.

I'm content with the deal as it stands for 3 reasons. Firstly I think Helm is a much better fit AND more effective as a 3rd line center than a second line winger; secondly, I think the fact he missed 18 months and is currently playing at the same level or better than he was then might mean he has more gas in the tank if he can avoid any major injuries; and thirdly, I think his finishing has improved over the last couple of years, and his style means he'll probably get more chances at centre than he did on the wing.

I genuinely believe that he was put on the wing to nurse him back from his serious injury, and then kept there due to an excess of centres, and that this was to his detriment. He's just better down the middle, and barring injuries will be worth his contract to us in that position.

 

[lomekian]

Anyone think entrenching Helm as the 3C and moving Sheahan around says something about how management is feeling about Sheahan these days?

I think management just doesn't know about Sheahan. When off form he looks like a 4th liner at best. On his best days he looks a 2nd line power forward. I think Helm's speed and work-rate make him a better 3C than Sheahan, and I'm not sure where that leaves Riley. They clearly want to give him a chance to be that 2nd line player he showed he could be for the last 15 games of the reg season, and its up to him to take it. If the Sheahan that showed up last March can emerge on a regular basis, it would a massive plus for the wings. If not, I can see him as trade bait..

 

[Winger98]

I think management just doesn't know about Sheahan. When off form he looks like a 4th liner at best. On his best days he looks a 2nd line power forward. I think Helm's speed and work-rate make him a better 3C than Sheahan, and I'm not sure where that leaves Riley. They clearly want to give him a chance to be that 2nd line player he showed he could be for the last 15 games of the reg season, and its up to him to take it. If the Sheahan that showed up last March can emerge on a regular basis, it would a massive plus for the wings. If not, I can see him as trade bait..

Sheahan had that stretch while playing center on the third line, though, didn't he? I think you're right about the organization, and they just want to find a spot where he can be that guy he keeps teasing to be. I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the guy, and I think we'll be best off if he can get on a bit of a hot streak and we can deal him off with some inflated value.

 

[The Zermanator]

To address the OP, If Helm breaks 35 points for 4 of the 5 years I'll be happy. Looking at this year in isolation, if they keep the same line together, I'm expecting 40 points, because I think Nike and Vanek will top 50 over the whole season.

Ultimately, it depends on health and what the club can do about other worse contracts on the team. If next summer we lose Howard and Ericsson without giving up any assets, this deal will look a lot more palatable.

I'm content with the deal as it stands for 3 reasons. Firstly I think Helm is a much better fit AND more effective as a 3rd line center than a second line winger; secondly, I think the fact he missed 18 months and is currently playing at the same level or better than he was then might mean he has more gas in the tank if he can avoid any major injuries; and thirdly, I think his finishing has improved over the last couple of years, and his style means he'll probably get more chances at centre than he did on the wing.

I genuinely believe that he was put on the wing to nurse him back from his serious injury, and then kept there due to an excess of centres, and that this was to his detriment. He's just better down the middle, and barring injuries will be worth his contract to us in that position.

Pretty optimistic considering 29 yr old Helm has never hit 35 points before...

 

[Winger98]

Pretty optimistic considering 29 yr old Helm has never hit 35 points before...

He just has to keep up this 40% shooting percentage he's rocking right now and he'll be fine.

 

[Yemack]

He just has to keep up this 40% shooting percentage he's rocking right now and he'll be fine.

If he keeps up current production, he is going to score 82 goals this season so I would say so.

Even at 1/3, it would be successive season for him as he would outscore Larkin from last season who scored 23 goals and were scoring leader on this team.

Last year he scored 13 with 77 games played, just behind Sheahan and Z. I expect scoring to go up this year for this team and considering he has a line that's clicking right now, I expect somewhere along 15-20 goals range. Hopefully closer to 20 and maybe bit above.

If we can keep the puck out enough, that's going to be a massive difference. Of course, the problem is the keeping the puck out part.

 

[ricky0034]

It was suggested that there were three other teams looking to sign Helm for much more money than he got in Detroit. So if that's the case Helm likely walks. Now what?

and it was suggested that the Philadelphia Flyers were looking to sign Dan Cleary to a 3 year deal

how about we let another team fall on the sword for us for once?

 

[lomekian]

Pretty optimistic considering 29 yr old Helm has never hit 35 points before...

Perhaps, But I think he is better offensively than earlier in his career, I think he is better at center than on the wing, and if they keep giving him line-mates that can self-generate offensively AND complement what he brings to the table as is currently the case, its not so unrealistic.

Also he has twice been on pace for over 35 points in the last 3 years, with last year him suffering from the broken team scoring malaise that affected everyone bar Abdelkader

 

[Dotter]

anything short of something crazy that would obviously never happen like 70 points or something and it would still be incredibly stupid because of the term

realistically he'll hit 25-30 points like usual and won't even be worth it even if you completely ignore the term(especially when you consider that in addition to the money he's taking away a top 9 spot from someone like Athanasiou too)

So 70 points then?

 

[jkutswings]

Ok, let's not get crazy. If Darren Helm scored 70 points in one season, being paid $3.85M AAV, that's a steal of a deal.

But guys closing in on their 30th birthday don't go from a career best of 33 points to anywhere near 70.

If Helm scores 40 points per year for 4 of the 5 years, it's decent value, even if I'd STILL rather use that cap hit to try and land a defenseman.

 

[Winger98]

If he keeps up current production, he is going to score 82 goals this season so I would say so.

Even at 1/3, it would be successive season for him as he would outscore Larkin from last season who scored 23 goals and were scoring leader on this team.

Last year he scored 13 with 77 games played, just behind Sheahan and Z. I expect scoring to go up this year for this team and considering he has a line that's clicking right now, I expect somewhere along 15-20 goals range. Hopefully closer to 20 and maybe bit above.

If we can keep the puck out enough, that's going to be a massive difference. Of course, the problem is the keeping the puck out part.

Helm seems like a guy who will go out and give you a pretty consistent ~17 goals ~28 points. Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

While I think our team scoring is going to be held down (again) by our blueline, I don't see anyone talking about scoring across the league. I don't have any numbers in front of me, but my impression is that league scoring has been declining for a few years now. While a team like Dallas sticks out with their offense, the league as a whole just isn't finding the back of the net like it used to.

Last year we were 12th in scoring in our conference and 23rd in the league. We might move that needle a bit, but I don't we get into the top half of either. Defensively we were 10th in our conference and 17th in the league. If we could shut things down and get our goals against into the top5 in our conference, that'd go a long way towards bettering our record. And it's something I think the Wings can have more control over.

 

[Frk It]

Helm seems like a guy who will go out and give you a pretty consistent ~17 goals ~28 points. Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

He's never scored 17 goals in his life. Another reason the 3.85 million was ridiculous.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

He's never scored 17 goals in his life. Another reason the 3.85 million was ridiculous.

Agreed. Well, at least not since he was on the Medicine Hat Tigers in the WHL, but you're right his career NHL best is 15 goals.

He's actually more of a consistent 12ish goals, 26 points guy.