Snow drafts

[periferal]

Basically this:

Snow: Drafts Anders Lee in 6th round
Fans: He got lucky

Ken Holland: Drafts Datsuyk in 6th round
Fans: OMG WHAT A VISIONARY. HE KNEW THAT EVERYONE WOULD PASS ON HIM SO HE DIDN'T DRAFT HIM SOONER EVEN THOUGH HE KNEW WHAT KIND OF PLAYER HE IS GOING TO BE

Snow: Drafts Toews in 4th round.
Fans: Well, about time he gets somethgin right.

Snow: Trades Griffin ****in Reinhart to the Edmonton Oilers for the 16th and 33rd picks
Fans: Wow, Chia is such an idiot

Snow: Trades Griffin ****in Reinhart to the Edmonton Oilers for the 16th and 33rd picks
Fans: Wow, Chia is such an idiot

Snow: Drafts Barzal
Fans: I could have done that

I'm not saying that Snow was a good GM but at some point it just crosses that line when people hate him so much that nothing else matters. Also, it's always OUR team GM that passed someone on a draft. Not the GMs before ours but OUR very own is the only one to blame.

Every GM in the world should be judged by one thing and one thing only...

Wins and losses while they hold that position.

You want to tell me that snow made some good draft picks? Fine. I'm down with that. But you know what...There's so much more to cultivating a winning team than just a draft. How about his choice of coaches? You want to debate his results there?

Bottom line...snow was GM for 12 seasons and we missed the playoffs more than we made them - In a league where 50% of the teams make it.

That makes him a terrible GM. Period.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Why are you excluding Barzal?

No one is looking to rehire the guy but the fact that more than 10 (12 by my count) of the guys on the current roster are all guys Snow drafted and for the most part people are happy with the team's performance this year does say something.

Most of the players from last year's team were drafted by Snow...how did that go? How did the previous decade of him being GM go?

I can't believe people are STILL defending Snow...the koolaid is strong in some I guess.

 

[periferal]

Most of the players from last year's team were drafted by Snow...how did that go? How did the previous decade of him being GM go?

I can't believe people are STILL defending Snow...the koolaid is strong in some I guess.

Some people are in abusive relationships and don't leave. Others think it's important to give an abysmal GM any credit.

In either case, something is wrong.

 

[burana800]

Every GM in the world should be judged by one thing and one thing only...

Wins and losses while they hold that position.

You want to tell me that snow made some good draft picks? Fine. I'm down with that. But you know what...There's so much more to cultivating a winning team than just a draft. How about his choice of coaches? You want to debate his results there?

Bottom line...snow was GM for 12 seasons and we missed the playoffs more than we made them - In a league where 50% of the teams make it.

That makes him a terrible GM. Period.

Yes, I said that Snow made good draft picks and one spectacular trade in a draft. I only did it because the title of this thread is "Snow drafts". That's why I didn't say anything about his choice of coaches for example. I stayed on topic with my message even though I realize that it's not a common habit here. I also pointed out that I don't think that he was a good GM. Like I said nothing else matters except Snow sucks. For me it almost feels like it's time to move on.

 

[periferal]

Yes, I said that Snow made good draft picks and one spectacular trade in a draft. I only did it because the title of this thread is "Snow drafts". That's why I didn't say anything about his choice of coaches for example. I stayed on topic with my message even though I realize that it's not a common habit here. I also pointed out that I don't think that he was a good GM. Like I said nothing else matters except Snow sucks. For me it almost feels like it's time to move on.

Right...So why even try to paint a total train wreck of a GM tenure with anything positive? What's the point since it was an abysmal time that we're going to be digging out of for years?

 

[burana800]

Right...So why even try to paint a total train wreck of a GM tenure with anything positive? What's the point since it was an abysmal time that we're going to be digging out of for years?

Right... being bitter and wallowing in self-pity is certainly the way to go. I like digging with Trotz, Barzal, Lee, Cizikas, Martin, Pulock, Boychuk, Dal Colle, Bellows, Koivula, Dobson, Wilde and Wahlstrom.

 

[periferal]

Right... being bitter and wallowing in self-pity is certainly the way to go. I like digging with Trotz, Barzal, Lee, Cizikas, Martin, Pulock, Boychuk, Dal Colle, Bellows, Koivula, Dobson, Wilde and Wahlstrom.

My Devil's Advocate friend...

Out of nowhere you started this debate trying to paint snow in a positive light. If you were truly "digging" the present/future then you wouldn't have brought up the past.

 

[Le Grec]

Most of the players from last year's team were drafted by Snow...how did that go? How did the previous decade of him being GM go?

I can't believe people are STILL defending Snow...the koolaid is strong in some I guess.

The problem with the Snow bashing is that...
-No one who bashes him truly takes into consideration how influential Wang was.
-He was working for a team that anyone with a decent reputation would not want to work for.
-And most bashers never give home credit where credit is due.

Was he the best GM, of course not, but he was no Milbury, no Chia, no Waddell, no Dorion, etc...

 

[DalGoal4Cups]

Right... being bitter and wallowing in self-pity is certainly the way to go. I like digging with Trotz, Barzal, Lee, Cizikas, Martin, Pulock, Boychuk, Dal Colle, Bellows, Koivula, Dobson, Wilde and Wahlstrom.

How dare you forget digging with toews, sorokin and JHS But I love the prioritizing of MDC. Kid's a stud. Just a late riser.

 

[Rehabguy]

Given our expectations of what a joke it was for a man to go straight from goaltender to GM of a team in need of a desperate rebuild given the team I see today, he did a damned good job rebuilding this franchise. Just didn't take the final step in hiring a seasoned coach and it cost him his job. But the all the Snow hate like he somehow destroyed this franchise is simply laughable and reserved for those with their heads in the sand. You don't like the current team? Don't watch em because it's practically all Snow's doing and for quite a few years to come. You have to remember what he started with. The cupboard was bare. He's hardly the best GM in the league, but he didn't set this franchise backwards, in fact he was a pivotal part in any of the success we are seeing today. The team has areas to improve, but we're getting there.

The franchise is in good hands now, but I'm not going to bash Snow, never made any sense to me.

 

[ScaredStreit]

The problem with the Snow bashing is that...
-No one who bashes him truly takes into consideration how influential Wang was.
-He was working for a team that anyone with a decent reputation would not want to work for.
-And most bashers never give home credit where credit is due.

Was he the best GM, of course not, but he was no Milbury, no Chia, no Waddell, no Dorion, etc...

So Snow gets the benefit of the doubt due to Wang but Milbury doesn't?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Given our expectations of what a joke it was for a man to go straight from goaltender to GM of a team in need of a desperate rebuild given the team I see today, he did a damned good job rebuilding this franchise. Just didn't take the final step in hiring a seasoned coach and it cost him his job. But the all the Snow hate like he somehow destroyed this franchise is simply laughable and reserved for those with their heads in the sand. You don't like the current team? Don't watch em because it's practically all Snow's doing and for quite a few years to come. You have to remember what he started with. The cupboard was bare. He's hardly the best GM in the league, but he didn't set this franchise backwards, in fact he was a pivotal part in any of the success we are seeing today. The team has areas to improve, but we're getting there.

The franchise is in good hands now, but I'm not going to bash Snow, never made any sense to me.

Record the year before Snow became GM:

36-40-6

Record his last season:

35-37-10

After more than a decade of being GM that's pathetic.

 

[Rehabguy]

Record the year before Snow became GM:

36-40-6

Record his last season:

35-37-10

After more than a decade of being GM that's pathetic.

Is that really fair?

Maybe you're right I just watched an Isles 4th line constructed of Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Martin dominate the best team in the NHL. That's all Lou, Snow's too stupid to construct a line like that.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Is that really fair?

Maybe you're right I just watched an Isles 4th line constructed of Clutterbuck, Cizikas, Martin dominate the best team in the NHL. That's all Lou, Snow's too stupid to construct a line like that.

You do realize Snow let Martin walk a couple of years ago and Lou brought him back right? What a great move! I mean he did let Martin walk after the same exact team you're taking about, dominated us in the playoffs.

This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about, accept mediocrity. If after 10 years of being GM you can't get ONE more win than before you took the job, that says something about your performance.

If you're asking me if comparing how good the team was before a GM takes a job and comparing it to how the team does after a decade is fair? Yes, of course it is.

 

[Rehabguy]

You do realize Snow let Martin walk a couple of years ago and Lou brought him back right? What a great move! I mean he did let Martin walk after the same exact team you're taking about, dominated us in the playoffs.

This is exactly the attitude I'm talking about, accept mediocrity. If after 10 years of being GM you can't get ONE more win than before you took the job, that says something about your performance.

If you're asking me if comparing how good the team was before a GM takes a job and comparing it to how the team does after a decade is fair? Yes, of course it is.

I'm glad Martin is back but do realize how much crap would have taken if Snow signed him for what he was asking for? Let's be real here. You would have been first in line to criticize Snow for overpaying a 4th liner.

 

[ScaredStreit]

I'm glad Martin is back but do realize how much crap would have taken if Snow signed him for what he was asking for? Let's be real here. You would have been first in line to criticize Snow for overpaying a 4th liner.

I fully supported keeping him here, and yes even at the contract he received. You're more than welcome to go back and check my past posts, but I'll save you the time and promise you that I really wanted Martin to stay and that losing him would hurt us a lot more than most predicted. Whatever crap he would have gotten for keeping Martin is irrelevant to this conversation.

You don't get credit for doing something well, then messing up, and somebody else has to come in and clean up your mess. The team records I posted were facts. Winning just 1 playoff series in 10 years as GM is a fact. Icing the worst defensive team in the NHL over the past 10 years last season is a fact.

Think about this...Snow ices a team that has the worst defense in a decade (in the entire NHL) and misses the playoffs for a 2nd year in a row. Lou-in just a few months-take that same team and turns them into a playoff team that has given up the least amount of goals in the NHL.

From 31st to 3rd on defense.
From a bottom feeder to a playoff team.
From a joke of a coach to a future HOFer.
From a backup goaltender to a HOFer.
From 21st place (same day last year) to 12th.
Lou did that in just a few months.

That's how pathetic Snow was. I know we've sucked forever (I'm 32 and we've sucked my entire life)...but not quite as bad as Milbury (and really not by that much), is nothing to pat yourself on the back about. The team is in good hands FINALLY...Snow's refilling vending machines right now and telling whoever will listen that nobody knows how to refill the machine like he does...in a few years the vending machines will be refilled like never before...just wait a little longer...the scary thing is while the machines are falling apart, there's a group of cheerleaders telling him how great he is, because the last guy could't even find the right building to put the machines into.

 

[Rehabguy]

I fully supported keeping him here, and yes even at the contract he received. You're more than welcome to go back and check my past posts, but I'll save you the time and promise you that I really wanted Martin to stay and that losing him would hurt us a lot more than most predicted. Whatever crap he would have gotten for keeping Martin is irrelevant to this conversation.

You don't get credit for doing something well, then messing up, and somebody else has to come in and clean up your mess. The team records I posted were facts. Winning just 1 playoff series in 10 years as GM is a fact. Icing the worst defensive team in the NHL over the past 10 years last season is a fact.

Think about this...Snow ices a team that has the worst defense in a decade (in the entire NHL) and misses the playoffs for a 2nd year in a row. Lou-in just a few months-take that same team and turns them into a playoff team that has given up the least amount of goals in the NHL.

From 31st to 3rd on defense.
From a bottom feeder to a playoff team.
From a joke of a coach to a future HOFer.
From a backup goaltender to a HOFer.
From 21st place (same day last year) to 12th.
Lou did that in just a few months.

That's how pathetic Snow was. I know we've sucked forever (I'm 32 and we've sucked my entire life)...but not quite as bad as Milbury (and really not by that much), is nothing to pat yourself on the back about. The team is in good hands FINALLY...Snow's refilling vending machines right now and telling whoever will listen that nobody knows how to refill the machine like he does...in a few years the vending machines will be refilled like never before...just wait a little longer...the scary thing is while the machines are falling apart, there's a group of cheerleaders telling him how great he is, because the last guy could't even find the right building to put the machines into.

I give full credit to Trotz, and let's face it it was more of Trotz wanting to leave the Cap's organization than Lou pulling him away from the Caps. He fell in Lou's lap. I think he was lucky with the timing of it all. Lou has so far done minimal in regards to major changes to the line-up. Will you or will you not recognize that this line-up is 90% or more Snow's doing?

BTW I was also one who did not want Martin to leave and also anticipated the problems the 4th line would have, but I wouldn't have wanted to overpay for it.

Though I am in full agreement that it was Snow's time to go not because of the fact that he did not build a team well or handle contracts over all pretty well, but because the team needed a new direction. I'm still waiting to see where Lou heads this franchise. I have full faith in Trotz, for me, the jury's still out on Lou.

Snow was a pivotal person in all the success the team has had thus far this season. He built this team.

 

[boredmale]

In terms of Snow's drafts I thought his top 10 picks besides Tavares and Bailey weren't great but picks in the 10+ area were good.

 

[Le Grec]

So Snow gets the benefit of the doubt due to Wang but Milbury doesn't?

I'm sure Milbury was handcuffed too, but are you really going to compare the job he did to what Snow did???

 

[xIsle]

I fully supported keeping him here, and yes even at the contract he received. You're more than welcome to go back and check my past posts, but I'll save you the time and promise you that I really wanted Martin to stay and that losing him would hurt us a lot more than most predicted. Whatever crap he would have gotten for keeping Martin is irrelevant to this conversation.

You don't get credit for doing something well, then messing up, and somebody else has to come in and clean up your mess. The team records I posted were facts. Winning just 1 playoff series in 10 years as GM is a fact. Icing the worst defensive team in the NHL over the past 10 years last season is a fact.

Think about this...Snow ices a team that has the worst defense in a decade (in the entire NHL) and misses the playoffs for a 2nd year in a row. Lou-in just a few months-take that same team and turns them into a playoff team that has given up the least amount of goals in the NHL.

From 31st to 3rd on defense.
From a bottom feeder to a playoff team.
From a joke of a coach to a future HOFer.
From a backup goaltender to a HOFer.
From 21st place (same day last year) to 12th.
Lou did that in just a few months.

That's how pathetic Snow was. I know we've sucked forever (I'm 32 and we've sucked my entire life)...but not quite as bad as Milbury (and really not by that much), is nothing to pat yourself on the back about. The team is in good hands FINALLY...Snow's refilling vending machines right now and telling whoever will listen that nobody knows how to refill the machine like he does...in a few years the vending machines will be refilled like never before...just wait a little longer...the scary thing is while the machines are falling apart, there's a group of cheerleaders telling him how great he is, because the last guy could't even find the right building to put the machines into.

Defense was not the problem, but coaching. We have the same group of defensemen this season with de Haan gone. With this same group of defensemen, Trotz makes it one of the best in the league! The problem was his choice of coach here, not his group of players.

And that was Snow's main problem as coach: his coaching choices (Gordon, Capuano, Weight). All mediocre coaches with whom Snow could keep some ascendancy over them. And his other problem was his extreme prudence or reluctance to make transactions and thus better enjoy the "Tavares years".

 

[Rehabguy]

It is always silly to completely blame how a team performs on the ice directly on the GM. At some point you have to look at the people below the GM including the coaches and players. Should we fire Lou because the Islanders are currently a fringe playoff team due to it's lousy power play. Lou's in charge. The power play sucks. Ergo fire Lou. Seems silly, but this was the same logic applied to Garth Snow oftentimes by HF posters for years when a few posters only look at the wins/losses column. This year proves if anything that under good coaching this team he constructed was well built and in good position cap wise. That's the primary role of the GM. Snow built a good team, but it is up to the rest of the team to perform their duties. But I do agree, his biggest fault was an over reliance on inexperienced coaches and his long term loyalty to them. Deserved or not- in any management position if the team fails it is oftentimes it is the head honcho who gets the axe. Sometimes change is good and I'm happy with the direction the franchise is headed but we all need to recognize that Snow contributed significantly with the team's current success.

 

[ScaredStreit]

It is always silly to completely blame how a team performs on the ice directly on the GM. At some point you have to look at the people below the GM including the coaches and players. Should we fire Lou because the Islanders are currently a fringe playoff team due to it's lousy power play. Lou's in charge. The power play sucks. Ergo fire Lou. Seems silly, but this was the same logic applied to Garth Snow oftentimes by HF posters for years when a few posters only look at the wins/losses column. This year proves if anything that under good coaching this team he constructed was well built and in good position cap wise. That's the primary role of the GM. Snow built a good team, but it is up to the rest of the team to perform their duties. But I do agree, his biggest fault was an over reliance on inexperienced coaches and his long term loyalty to them. Deserved or not- in any management position if the team fails it is oftentimes it is the head honcho who gets the axe. Sometimes change is good and I'm happy with the direction the franchise is headed but we all need to recognize that Snow contributed significantly with the team's current success.

The GM hires the coaches and players. Having a poor coaching staff is the fault of the GM.

Lou has done a fantastic job because last year this team was awful. We LITERALLY had the worst defense of any NHL team over the past decade. He didn't use that as an excuse. He went out and solved that problem.

Last season we were a bottom feeder. This season we're a playoff team. If we had Weight as a coach make no mistake about it: we'd be even worse off than last season.

You think it's silly to evaluate a GM based on wins/losses after a decade of being GM? How else should we evaluate them?

 

[periferal]

I'm sure Milbury was handcuffed too, but are you really going to compare the job he did to what Snow did???

If anyone wants to debate Milbury vs snow you are literally deciding whether to eat dog **** or horse ****.

Literally what in the **** difference does it make?

 

[periferal]

It is always silly to completely blame how a team performs on the ice directly on the GM. At some point you have to look at the people below the GM including the coaches and players. Should we fire Lou because the Islanders are currently a fringe playoff team due to it's lousy power play. Lou's in charge. The power play sucks. Ergo fire Lou. Seems silly, but this was the same logic applied to Garth Snow oftentimes by HF posters for years when a few posters only look at the wins/losses column. This year proves if anything that under good coaching this team he constructed was well built and in good position cap wise. That's the primary role of the GM. Snow built a good team, but it is up to the rest of the team to perform their duties. But I do agree, his biggest fault was an over reliance on inexperienced coaches and his long term loyalty to them. Deserved or not- in any management position if the team fails it is oftentimes it is the head honcho who gets the axe. Sometimes change is good and I'm happy with the direction the franchise is headed but we all need to recognize that Snow contributed significantly with the team's current success.

 

[Rehabguy]

The GM hires the coaches and players. Having a poor coaching staff is the fault of the GM.

Lou has done a fantastic job because last year this team was awful. We LITERALLY had the worst defense of any NHL team over the past decade. He didn't use that as an excuse. He went out and solved that problem.

Last season we were a bottom feeder. This season we're a playoff team. If we had Weight as a coach make no mistake about it: we'd be even worse off than last season.

You think it's silly to evaluate a GM based on wins/losses after a decade of being GM? How else should we evaluate them?

Okay as a frame of reference lets evaluate Snow versus Lou in win percentages in their times as GM of the Isles and GM of the Devils.

Overall Lou has the advantage of a .590 versus .512 in win percentages when he was with the Devils. But that doesn't take into account the horrible team Snow inherited unless you want to debate that. And if you want to debate that you must know the Islanders point percentage for Snow's first 5 years as GM with the Isles was .452. Lou inherited a team that averaged a point percentage of .500 from day 1 and averaged that over 5 years.

So let's give Snow 3 years to right the ship. After 3 years as GM Snow closes the gap at .547 versus Lou's .590.

Now if we look at the 5 year performance before they were relieved of duties. Snow has a .561 win percentage versus .533 for Lamiorello. Snow does a much better job as GM over Lou in the last 5 years of their tenures respectively.

There you have it. I'm waiting to see how you move the goalposts on this one. Again, I'm not saying Snow was a better GM than Lou, but based in wins/losses they are closer than one would think and in recent history, Snow actually bests Lou by a healthy margin.

EDIT: But hey, if you don't like my logic lets use yours. After nearly 3 decades of coaching the devils Lou went from a 38 wins 36 loss record to a 32 wins 36 loss record. It's amazing the Devils kept this guy around so long.