Snow drafts

Le Grec

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
3,615
1,074
If anyone wants to debate Milbury vs snow you are literally deciding whether to eat dog **** or horse ****.

Literally what in the **** difference does it make?

Well, I don't need to debate it, just talking.
Having said that, we've debated this in the past, so no need to go any further. And as much as we agree on most things, I disagree with your assessment of Snow...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

DalGoal4Cups

Meet me at Belmont
Dec 4, 2011
889
471
Nice pic up in the late rounds by snow in D Toews. Kid looks like a world beater. His wheels are insane and he stepped right into the NHL looking like a #1 guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

periferal

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
28,415
15,841
Well, I don't need to debate it, just talking.
Having said that, we've debated this in the past, so no need to go any further. And as much as we agree on most things, I disagree with your assessment of Snow...


I have ONE, and only ONE, goal for the Islanders and that is to win the Stanley Cup. Either you think snow could deliver that, or you don't. If you think that he could have under any circumstances, then you are darn right you disagree with my assessment of him.

Any GM, coach, player, or anyone else associated with my favorites teams I look at through this lens - Can they help bring my team a championship or no? With every last fiber of my being and beyond I know that snow is incapable of bringing any team a Stanley Cup and why I wanted him out a decade ago. I mean do you truly want the Isles to win a Cup or do you just want to have debates on these boards? Because I see no reason to discuss snow under any light other than - Can he win or not?
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
I have ONE, and only ONE, goal for the Islanders and that is to win the Stanley Cup. Either you think snow could deliver that, or you don't. If you think that he could have under any circumstances, then you are darn right you disagree with my assessment of him.

Any GM, coach, player, or anyone else associated with my favorites teams I look at through this lens - Can they help bring my team a championship or no? With every last fiber of my being and beyond I know that snow is incapable of bringing any team a Stanley Cup and why I wanted him out a decade ago. I mean do you truly want the Isles to win a Cup or do you just want to have debates on these boards? Because I see no reason to discuss snow under any light other than - Can he win or not?
Per chance do you go around wearing a blue and orange 80's baseball cap with the words "Make the Islanders Great Again" embroidered on it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: burana800

Le Grec

Registered User
Jun 28, 2011
3,615
1,074
I have ONE, and only ONE, goal for the Islanders and that is to win the Stanley Cup. Either you think snow could deliver that, or you don't. If you think that he could have under any circumstances, then you are darn right you disagree with my assessment of him.

Any GM, coach, player, or anyone else associated with my favorites teams I look at through this lens - Can they help bring my team a championship or no? With every last fiber of my being and beyond I know that snow is incapable of bringing any team a Stanley Cup and why I wanted him out a decade ago. I mean do you truly want the Isles to win a Cup or do you just want to have debates on these boards? Because I see no reason to discuss snow under any light other than - Can he win or not?

Well, the issue is really that the Isles were never going to win with Wang.

People keep saying that he never hired a real GM or Coach because he was cheap, but the truth is no one would ever work for him. There is less than zero chance that Lou and Trotz come here if Wang still owned the team.

So while Charles was in charge, the goal was never going to be win a Cup, that was impossible.
The goal was stabilize as much as you can. People forget how f***ed things started getting for Torrey once ownership stopped spending/caring. And while Milbury was an idiot, an equal amount of the blame falls on ownership.

Now was Snow going to turn this team into a cup contender, I don't know, because he never had a chance. But that shouldn't be the question...you should be asking could things have been worse?
In my eyes, the answer is f*** yeah...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

ScaredStreit

Registered User
May 5, 2006
11,082
2,970
Tampa, FL
Okay as a frame of reference lets evaluate Snow versus Lou in win percentages in their times as GM of the Isles and GM of the Devils.

Overall Lou has the advantage of a .590 versus .512 in win percentages when he was with the Devils. But that doesn't take into account the horrible team Snow inherited unless you want to debate that. And if you want to debate that you must know the Islanders point percentage for Snow's first 5 years as GM with the Isles was .452. Lou inherited a team that averaged a point percentage of .500 from day 1 and averaged that over 5 years.

So let's give Snow 3 years to right the ship. After 3 years as GM Snow closes the gap at .547 versus Lou's .590.

Now if we look at the 5 year performance before they were relieved of duties. Snow has a .561 win percentage versus .533 for Lamiorello. Snow does a much better job as GM over Lou in the last 5 years of their tenures respectively.

There you have it. I'm waiting to see how you move the goalposts on this one. Again, I'm not saying Snow was a better GM than Lou, but based in wins/losses they are closer than one would think and in recent history, Snow actually bests Lou by a healthy margin.

EDIT: But hey, if you don't like my logic lets use yours. After nearly 3 decades of coaching the devils Lou went from a 38 wins 36 loss record to a 32 wins 36 loss record. It's amazing the Devils kept this guy around so long.

Well the first flaw is obviously that more points are handed out in today's NHL than when Lou was GM of New Jersey (for most of his tenure at least). There was no such thing as shootout wins, overtime was 5 on 5 vs 4 vs 4/3 vs 3 at first.

By the end of Lou's tenure it was time for him to go. I'm not disputing that. But what did he accomplish from the time he took the job and the time he was fired compared to Snow? But if you can't see the glaring differences between Snow's Isles tenure and Lou's Devils tenure, well here it is...

(keep in mind everything below is a fact, not an opinion, and can't be dispisputed):

Playoff series won:
Snow: 1
Lou: 25

Conference finals appearances:
Snow: 0
Lou: 7

Cup finals appearances:

Snow: 0
Lou: 5

Cup wins:

Snow: 0
Lou: 3

You're actually trying to compare those two resumes together?
 
  • Like
Reactions: periferal and 12Dog

burana800

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
410
339
Finland
How dare you forget digging with toews, sorokin and JHS ;) But I love the prioritizing of MDC. Kid's a stud. Just a late riser.

Toews is too filthy for my digging team :D I haven't seen Ilya's shovel working on a NHL franchise sized hole yet so I left him out for now. JHS sure likes digging but seems that he is only digging a deeper hole for himself :huh:
 

crashthenet

Registered User
Jul 9, 2004
5,888
1,170
Hockey Falls
Condemn Snow on his inability to assemble a major league and minor league coaching and development staff. How much was ownership we'll never know.

Looking back on the drafts, the Strome pick probably hurt the most. He had an awesome year and was so highly rated. Some realy good moments on draft day for Snow - the Reinhart trade for Barzal and Beau ( to the the Bruins had 3 picks to take Barzal). The Nelson trade and pick. The two trade downs for Bailey. The entire 09 draft. Matt Martin and Spurgeon late in 08 (too bad couldn't sign him).

Reagrding Nino, I was convinced Johnasen wass going to be an Islander that day. Was so dissapointed when he went to the Jackets. Figured Fowler or Nino at that point point. They mishandled him so badly. See above.
 

IslandersFan17

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
5,799
1,332
Long Island
Aside from the fact that the Devils had their first winning season in franchise history when Lou took over... so if Snow inherited a bad team, what did Lou inherit. Also Lou made the playoffs in 22 of his 27 seasons as GM. Snow doesnt hold a candle to Lou.
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
Well the first flaw is obviously that more points are handed out in today's NHL than when Lou was GM of New Jersey (for most of his tenure at least). There was no such thing as shootout wins, overtime was 5 on 5 vs 4 vs 4/3 vs 3 at first.

By the end of Lou's tenure it was time for him to go. I'm not disputing that. But what did he accomplish from the time he took the job and the time he was fired compared to Snow? But if you can't see the glaring differences between Snow's Isles tenure and Lou's Devils tenure, well here it is...

(keep in mind everything below is a fact, not an opinion, and can't be dispisputed):

Playoff series won:
Snow: 1
Lou: 25

Conference finals appearances:
Snow: 0
Lou: 7

Cup finals appearances:

Snow: 0
Lou: 5

Cup wins:

Snow: 0
Lou: 3

You're actually trying to compare those two resumes together?

I only compared them based on your criteria. (wins/losses)

Ahhh. So the goal posts do move indeed. So it's NOT just about wins/losses. I shudder to think how many playoff victories the Snow's Islanders may have had touting the best goaltender to ever play the game. Who knows how many wins Lou would have had if not for famed goalie coach Warren Strelow, making the pivotal decision in 1990 to draft Brodeur over the higher ranked Trevor Kidd or Felix Potvin. But, no folks, all that matters is who's at the helm not who's on the ice actually playing the game or the coaches who make key decisions day in and day out.

Based on your logic it is not Barzal, or Trotz winning the Islanders games, it's all Lou.

C'mon get real! That is such a simple minded way of looking at this. Like I said, as important as the role of a GM is there comes a point when you have to look at the players and coaches on the ice for both the criticism and the credit.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

Islanders4Cups

Registered User
May 4, 2002
4,673
1,526
Boston, MA USA
I only compared them based on your criteria. (wins/losses)

Ahhh. So the goal posts do move indeed. So it's NOT just about wins/losses. I shudder to think how many playoff victories the Snow's Islanders may have had touting the best goaltender to ever play the game. Who knows how many wins Lou would have had if not for famed goalie coach Warren Strelow, making the pivotal decision in 1990 to draft Brodeur over the higher ranked Trevor Kidd or Felix Potvin. But, no folks, all that matters is who's at the helm not who's on the ice actually playing the game or the coaches who make key decisions day in and day out.

Based on your logic it is not Barzal, or Trotz winning the Islanders games, it's all Lou.

C'mon get real! That is such a simple minded way of looking at this. Like I said, as important as the role of a GM is there comes a point when you have to look at the players and coaches on the ice for both the criticism and the credit.

I shudder every time I think about the Islander lack of playoff appearances.
Lou hired Trotz which is something Snow could never pull off. Snow could not even convince ownership to trade JT to save his own bacon.
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
Aside from the fact that the Devils had their first winning season in franchise history when Lou took over... so if Snow inherited a bad team, what did Lou inherit. Also Lou made the playoffs in 22 of his 27 seasons as GM. Snow doesnt hold a candle to Lou.

And followed that first year with a 27-41 record. I'm not saying that Snow is a better GM than Lou, but I've already shown based on the argument that "wins/losses" is all that matter they are not too far apart and in fact Snow has the better record in recent years past. Some of you are just putting way too much stock in one man. There are just too many factors that go into making a great Stanley Cup team of which most GM's have no control over like draft position or who would be available by the time you got to pick or the situation you inherited. Like I said it's just a too infantile simple minded way of looking at things.
 

IslandersFan17

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
5,799
1,332
Long Island
And followed that first year with a 27-41 record. I'm not saying that Snow is a better GM than Lou, but I've already shown based on the argument that "wins/losses" is all that matter they are not too far apart and in fact Snow has the better record in recent years past. Some of you are just putting way too much stock in one man. There are just too many factors that go into making a great Stanley Cup team of which most GM's have no control over like draft position or who would be available by the time you got to pick or the situation you inherited. Like I said it's just a too infantile simple minded way of looking at things.
I'll say it again 22 playoff appearances out of 27 years.
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
I shudder every time I think about the Islander lack of playoff appearances.
Lou hired Trotz which is something Snow could never pull off. Snow could not even convince ownership to trade JT to save his own bacon.
Pfffft. He landed in Lou's lap. Anyone would have jumped on that opportunity and the Isles happened to be in prime position. Let's get real here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
I'll say it again 22 playoff appearances out of 27 years.
Yes thank you Brodeur. :sarcasm:

Again, I'm not saying Snow was a better GM than Lou, I don't know if I could make that any clearer. I'm just pointing out that there's more to a measure of a GM's success than just wins/losses as a few posters have been claiming ad nauseam.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

Islanders4Cups

Registered User
May 4, 2002
4,673
1,526
Boston, MA USA
Pfffft. He landed in Lou's lap. Anyone would have jumped on that opportunity and the Isles happened to be in prime position. Let's get real here.

Pffft would have been Trotz reaction if Snow called him.
Snow had his guy, Doug Weight. There was no inclination Snow was changing that anytime soon.
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
Pffft would have been Trotz reaction if Snow called him.
Snow had his guy, Doug Weight. There was no inclination Snow was changing that anytime soon.
Which is why Ledecky hired Lamiorello and rightfully so. I am in agreement that it was time for Snow to move over, but I'm not going to be part of an anti-Snow mob mentality. He's did a good job given the situation he took upon himself. The Isles are all the better with the decisions Snow and Co. made in building this team. Now the team is in even better hands and I'm looking forward to see how the new regime further evolves this franchise into a Cup contender.
 

12Dog

Registered User
Feb 14, 2013
2,313
927
And followed that first year with a 27-41 record. I'm not saying that Snow is a better GM than Lou, but I've already shown based on the argument that "wins/losses" is all that matter they are not too far apart and in fact Snow has the better record in recent years past. Some of you are just putting way too much stock in one man. There are just too many factors that go into making a great Stanley Cup team of which most GM's have no control over like draft position or who would be available by the time you got to pick or the situation you inherited. Like I said it's just a too infantile simple minded way of looking at things.

The players changed
The coaches changed, cause Lou changed them when they weren’t performing to his standard
The nhl changed how wins are obtained

Lou he didn’t change, he was the constant
Lou’s teams no matter where he drafted made the playoffs, that didn’t change
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
The players changed
The coaches changed, cause Lou changed them when they weren’t performing to his standard
The nhl changed how wins are obtained

Lou he didn’t change, he was the constant
Lou’s teams no matter where he drafted made the playoffs, that didn’t change

Actually Brodeur was just as much a constant.

Lou's last 5 or so years with the Devils ended in failures. He over stayed in welcome in NJ by most reports.

5 reasons Lou Lamoriello is no longer Devils GM

BTW these are the same reasons Shanahan politely turned down Lou for a more permanent GM position with the Leafs. Everyone appreciates his hockey smarts but his old way of thinking can hamper a modern team's progress. We will see if they can indeed teach an old dog new tricks with the Islanders.
 
Last edited:

Islanders4Cups

Registered User
May 4, 2002
4,673
1,526
Boston, MA USA
Which is why Ledecky hired Lamiorello and rightfully so. I am in agreement that it was time for Snow to move over, but I'm not going to be part of an anti-Snow mob mentality. He's did a good job given the situation he took upon himself. The Isles are all the better with the decisions Snow and Co. made in building this team. Now the team is in even better hands and I'm looking forward to see how the new regime further evolves this franchise into a Cup contender.

I can agree that Snow was capable of doing a partial job. Maybe he would be a decent scout. He was not a good GM.

Snow’s record is not good which was pointed out. GMs are judged by their record and Snow had plenty of time to put picks and trades together and win. Snows teams peaked with two 100 point seasons and one playoff series win, and then crashed badly to the low point of missing the playoffs with the most goals against in the last 10 years.

He had the worst coach for this team which is evident with what LL’spick as coach has done with the D and goaltending with many of the same players.
 

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
I can agree that Snow was capable of doing a partial job. Maybe he would be a decent scout. He was not a good GM.

Snow’s record is not good which was pointed out. GMs are judged by their record and Snow had plenty of time to put picks and trades together and win. Snows teams peaked with two 100 point seasons and one playoff series win, and then crashed badly to the low point of missing the playoffs with the most goals against in the last 10 years.

He had the worst coach for this team which is evident with what LL’spick as coach has done with the D and goaltending with many of the same players.

Was it really hard for Lou to "pick" a Jack Adams coach right in the middle of a Cup celebration and contract dispute as the next coach of the Islanders? Really? A trained monkey could have made this pick. He got lucky with this one and us fans are all the more lucky as well.

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything stupid like he did in his final years with the Devs.
 

ThreeLeftSkates

Registered User
Nov 20, 2008
4,937
1,994
And followed that first year with a 27-41 record. I'm not saying that Snow is a better GM than Lou, but I've already shown based on the argument that "wins/losses" is all that matter they are not too far apart and in fact Snow has the better record in recent years past. Some of you are just putting way too much stock in one man. There are just too many factors that go into making a great Stanley Cup team of which most GM's have no control over like draft position or who would be available by the time you got to pick or the situation you inherited. Like I said it's just a too infantile simple minded way of looking at things.
Glen Sather thought he would win a Cup every year GMing the Rags, that did not work out as planned. Snow was in over his head from day 1 until he was canned. Lou has already built several Cup winning teams. Looking at won loss records for a few years is a beauty contest, and has zip to do with evaluating GMs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

Rehabguy

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
5,007
1,877
Glen Sather thought he would win a Cup every year GMing the Rags, that did not work out as planned. Snow was in over his head from day 1 until he was canned. Lou has already built several Cup winning teams. Looking at won loss records for a few years is a beauty contest, and has zip to do with evaluating GMs.
On the bolded that's what I'm saying. Lou did great with the Devils as Sather did with the Oilers, but it's been mostly down hill since then. Let's see where Lou takes the Islanders before we annoint him the next messiah.

Trotz, though, he's on another level still in his peak. Can't believe our luck in landing this guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Quicklime

Chardo

Registered User
Apr 27, 2007
11,209
7,553
Was it really hard for Lou to "pick" a Jack Adams coach right in the middle of a Cup celebration and contract dispute as the next coach of the Islanders? Really? A trained monkey could have made this pick. He got lucky with this one and us fans are all the more lucky as well.

I'm just hoping he doesn't do anything stupid like he did in his final years with the Devs.

That Jack Adams coach doesn't take the job, or even take the phone call, if not for Lou.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 12Dog

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->