Snow drafts

Rehabguy

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Oct 2, 2011
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That Jack Adams coach doesn't take the job, or even take the phone call, if not for Lou.
If Trotz was worried about working for a lesser organization there was no way he walks away from a world class organization like the Caps. The situation deteriorated between him and Caps management because of money. The Islanders had money, and plenty of it and were willing to pay him what he's worth. They were the only team in the league at that time that had a coaching vacancy. He saw the quality of this line up and knew that he could make immediate improvements and he stepped up to the plate to meet the challenge. Trotz was always in the drivers seat. The man just won the Stanley Cup for a team that has failed in this pursuit decade after decade. He didn't need any luring, nor was he afraid to face any challenge a team like the Islanders might bring. He just wanted to be paid what he's worth and I just don't want Lou to get in the way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...signing-from-capitals/?utm_term=.e812d745453a
 
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Chardo

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If Trotz was worried about working for a lesser organization there was no way he walks away from a world class organization like the Caps. The situation deteriorated between him and Caps management because of money. The Islanders had money, and plenty of it and were willing to pay him what he's worth. They were the only team in the league at that time that had a coaching vacancy. He saw the quality of this line up and knew that he could make immediate improvements and he stepped up to the plate to meet the challenge. Trotz was always in the drivers seat. The man just won the Stanley Cup for a team that has failed in this pursuit decade after decade. He didn't need any luring, nor was he afraid to face any challenge a team like the Islanders might bring. He just wanted to be paid what he's worth and I just don't want Lou to get in the way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...signing-from-capitals/?utm_term=.e812d745453a

And if the Isles were still the same dysfunctional organization, Trotz doesn't even take the call. He sits home and waits for the next opening. And he'd be coaching McDavid today (or Chicago), still getting paid what he's worth. Yeah he quit for money. But don't think for a moment he wouldn't get what he wants from any number of teams, and he knew it. When you get a call from Lou, offering the money and the selling the plan, you take it seriously. When you get that same call from Garth, you don't even get past hello.
 
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ScaredStreit

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I only compared them based on your criteria. (wins/losses)

Ahhh. So the goal posts do move indeed. So it's NOT just about wins/losses. I shudder to think how many playoff victories the Snow's Islanders may have had touting the best goaltender to ever play the game. Who knows how many wins Lou would have had if not for famed goalie coach Warren Strelow, making the pivotal decision in 1990 to draft Brodeur over the higher ranked Trevor Kidd or Felix Potvin. But, no folks, all that matters is who's at the helm not who's on the ice actually playing the game or the coaches who make key decisions day in and day out.

Based on your logic it is not Barzal, or Trotz winning the Islanders games, it's all Lou.

C'mon get real! That is such a simple minded way of looking at this. Like I said, as important as the role of a GM is there comes a point when you have to look at the players and coaches on the ice for both the criticism and the credit.

My criteria was winning. If you can name any form of winning more important in the NHL than the Stanley Cup I'd love to hear it.

Quote where I said it was "only" about wins/losses. I said it was about records that teams have and yes that is wins and losses, but it's obviously not limited to the regular season. Seriously you can resort to ad hominems all you want, but at the end of the day it's about winning. Nothing more, nothing less.

Of course it's also up to the players/coaching staff. But the GM is the boss and puts those people in place. It's the player's job to play, the coach's job to coach, and the GM's job to manage in team and to put the players and coach in a situation to succeed.

Am I reading this correctly, or are you trying to use Lou drafting Brodeur (arguably better than any Islander player the Isles have ever drafted in history-and EASILY better than any player Snow has ever drafted) against him in an argument over Snow? Really? Are you going to ignore the likes of Niedermayer, Stevens, Sykora, Elias, Arnott, Rafalski, Holik, etc. that Lou brought in?
 

ScaredStreit

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And followed that first year with a 27-41 record. I'm not saying that Snow is a better GM than Lou, but I've already shown based on the argument that "wins/losses" is all that matter they are not too far apart and in fact Snow has the better record in recent years past. Some of you are just putting way too much stock in one man. There are just too many factors that go into making a great Stanley Cup team of which most GM's have no control over like draft position or who would be available by the time you got to pick or the situation you inherited. Like I said it's just a too infantile simple minded way of looking at things.

How many cups do the Islanders win if Torrey isn't the GM?
 
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Rehabguy

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And if the Isles were still the same dysfunctional organization, Trotz doesn't even take the call. He sits home and waits for the next opening. And he'd be coaching McDavid today (or Chicago), still getting paid what he's worth. Yeah he quit for money. But don't think for a moment he wouldn't get what he wants from any number of teams, and he knew it. When you get a call from Lou, offering the money and the selling the plan, you take it seriously. When you get that same call from Garth, you don't even get past hello.
Wouldn’t you consider the Oilers more dysfunctional than Islanders as an organization?
 
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Rehabguy

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My criteria was winning. If you can name any form of winning more important in the NHL than the Stanley Cup I'd love to hear it.

Quote where I said it was "only" about wins/losses. I said it was about records that teams have and yes that is wins and losses, but it's obviously not limited to the regular season. Seriously you can resort to ad hominems all you want, but at the end of the day it's about winning. Nothing more, nothing less.

Of course it's also up to the players/coaching staff. But the GM is the boss and puts those people in place. It's the player's job to play, the coach's job to coach, and the GM's job to manage in team and to put the players and coach in a situation to succeed.

Am I reading this correctly, or are you trying to use Lou drafting Brodeur (arguably better than any Islander player the Isles have ever drafted in history-and EASILY better than any player Snow has ever drafted) against him in an argument over Snow? Really? Are you going to ignore the likes of Niedermayer, Stevens, Sykora, Elias, Arnott, Rafalski, Holik, etc. that Lou brought in?

You just wrote a few posts above that if not for wins/losses how else are you suppossed to evaluate a GM. I’m only using your criteria and when I show you your logic is faulty you keep changing your story.

You give credit for all the players Lou brought in but you give him no credit for bringing in Barzal, Toews, Lee, Boychuk, Beauvillier, Mayfield, Martin, Cizikas to name a few. All the same players Trotz is using today and coaching to be successful against some of the best teams in the NHL. Why the double standard?

It’s all about winning. Give me a break!
 

Rehabguy

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How many cups do the Islanders win if Torrey isn't the GM?
How many Cups do the Islanders win if Potvin was not the available in that pivotal draft. He was the most anticipated defenseman entering the league since Bobby Orr. What if there was no Arbour, Bossy, Trottier? He presided over the Panthers but there was no similar success. Why is that? He was a Cup winning GM.

Torrey was a pivotal part of the Islander’s successful 4 Cup run. He was the architect. But he would laugh in your face if you suggested to him as you are doing now that it was all about him. That’s just absolutely ridiculous and I don’t think this is sinking into your head.

If you really think that winning a Cup is the criteria for a successful GM then ask Edmonton fans what they think of Peter Chiarelli. Maybe his success with the Bruins had more to do with the coaches and players on the ice than with anything he actually did. Stop trying to oversell that nonsense of yours.
 
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12Dog

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Feb 14, 2013
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I don’t get this thread at all

Successful teams in any sport, generally start from ownership and flow down, there are exceptions of course
MM and Snow were both saddled with poor ownership. That being said, both had their good moments, but for whatever reason never succeeded.

Lou took over a team that Wayne Gretzky called Mickey Mouse. And he was right. For the poster giving Brodeur all the credit for the devil’s success, I ask, were you watching devils hockey for Lou’s entire tenure?

I personally hate his first 20 years. He was a guy who changed hockey. He knew it was easier to stop scoring than to score. And scorers cost money. To me, the devils, obstructing, clutching, grabbing, limiting shots against, to 15 a game with a good goalie, trapping, winning 2-1 was cheaper, more sustainable model. He forced the league to enforce the rules on the book.

But Snow? Him and his Maine boys? Genius
 
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ThreeLeftSkates

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Nov 20, 2008
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How many Garth Snow threads do we have to endure? He is/was a buffoon who was in over his head as soon as he hung up his skates. He left us a roster of players, some good, some bad.
The most remarkable part of his story is being hired in a hallway.
Goodbye.
 
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ScaredStreit

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How many Cups do the Islanders win if Potvin was not the available in that pivotal draft. He was the most anticipated defenseman entering the league since Bobby Orr. What if there was no Arbour, Bossy, Trottier? He presided over the Panthers but there was no similar success. Why is that? He was a Cup winning GM.

Torrey was a pivotal part of the Islander’s successful 4 Cup run. He was the architect. But he would laugh in your face if you suggested to him as you are doing now that it was all about him. That’s just absolutely ridiculous and I don’t think this is sinking into your head.

If you really think that winning a Cup is the criteria for a successful GM then ask Edmonton fans what they think of Peter Chiarelli. Maybe his success with the Bruins had more to do with the coaches and players on the ice than with anything he actually did. Stop trying to oversell that nonsense of yours.

Chiarelli hasn't won the cup with the Oilers. He hasn't iced competitive teams with the Oilers (yet). He hasn't been successful in Edmonton (yet). What's your point?

Florida won 3 playoff series and the team had the Cup Finals in Torrey's 3rd year of being GM of an expansion team. Snow's team finished in last place his 3rd year. In 3 years Torrey accomplished more with the Panthers than Snow did in a decade. That's what you're using to compare them together? Seriously, this makes no sense.

Again, you said I'm placing too much emphasis on one player and it takes more to win a cup (you then ironically do the same thing with Potvin), but when asked how many cups we win without Torrey you dodge the question. You dodge because you know the answer is "none", and every poster on this board knows the answer is "none".

You keep taking my words out of context. I never stated that it was all on the GM. Quote my post(s) where I say such. What I did say was that it takes the players playing well, the coaches coaching well, and it's the GM's job to them (players+coaches) in a situation to be successful. How is this inaccurate? Obviously they would have went on to have successful careers regardless of the team they played for-I'm not disputing that-but if Torrey doesn't make those two steals in the draft, we don't win any cups.

Torrey doesn't get much credit from me for drafting Potvin to be fair and honest (any GM would have done the same as you stated, it's also why I give Snow no credit for picking Tavares). But since you mentioned Bossy (drafted 15th overall) and Trottier (2nd round pick)...how were those players being Islanders NOT Torrey's doing?


You just wrote a few posts above that if not for wins/losses how else are you suppossed to evaluate a GM. I’m only using your criteria and when I show you your logic is faulty you keep changing your story.

You give credit for all the players Lou brought in but you give him no credit for bringing in Barzal, Toews, Lee, Boychuk, Beauvillier, Mayfield, Martin, Cizikas to name a few. All the same players Trotz is using today and coaching to be successful against some of the best teams in the NHL. Why the double standard?

It’s all about winning. Give me a break!

Not changing my story at all. Professional sports are about one win: money (which comes from winning obviously). I mention winning, then mention winning cups and now you're saying that winning cups doesn't count as winning? What?

I get it, many have been drinking the Snow Kool-Aid seemingly for a while and have become content with mediocrity. Does anybody really think Snow will be hired as a GM for any other organization? Do you? If the answer is "no", I'd question just how good of a job you actually think Snow did.
 

Rehabguy

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Oct 2, 2011
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Chiarelli hasn't won the cup with the Oilers. He hasn't iced competitive teams with the Oilers (yet). He hasn't been successful in Edmonton (yet). What's your point?

Florida won 3 playoff series and the team had the Cup Finals in Torrey's 3rd year of being GM of an expansion team. Snow's team finished in last place his 3rd year. In 3 years Torrey accomplished more with the Panthers than Snow did in a decade. That's what you're using to compare them together? Seriously, this makes no sense.

Again, you said I'm placing too much emphasis on one player and it takes more to win a cup (you then ironically do the same thing with Potvin), but when asked how many cups we win without Torrey you dodge the question. You dodge because you know the answer is "none", and every poster on this board knows the answer is "none".

You keep taking my words out of context. I never stated that it was all on the GM. Quote my post(s) where I say such. What I did say was that it takes the players playing well, the coaches coaching well, and it's the GM's job to them (players+coaches) in a situation to be successful. How is this inaccurate? Obviously they would have went on to have successful careers regardless of the team they played for-I'm not disputing that-but if Torrey doesn't make those two steals in the draft, we don't win any cups.

Torrey doesn't get much credit from me for drafting Potvin to be fair and honest (any GM would have done the same as you stated, it's also why I give Snow no credit for picking Tavares). But since you mentioned Bossy (drafted 15th overall) and Trottier (2nd round pick)...how were those players being Islanders NOT Torrey's doing?




Not changing my story at all. Professional sports are about one win: money (which comes from winning obviously). I mention winning, then mention winning cups and now you're saying that winning cups doesn't count as winning? What?

I get it, many have been drinking the Snow Kool-Aid seemingly for a while and have become content with mediocrity. Does anybody really think Snow will be hired as a GM for any other organization? Do you? If the answer is "no", I'd question just how good of a job you actually think Snow did.

I'm not here to defend Snow but just to give credit where credit is due. It was inexcusable that the Islanders went so long without a reputable, experienced coach who had shown success in the past. That's indefensible. If I were to criticize Snow, I would say he was too loyal to a fault. Doug Weight is a good man, a great former player and I have no doubt he or Capuano wanted the best for this team at all times, but even they would have to agree that Trotz has this team finally running on all cylinders and maybe they are learning a thing or two watching this master at work. If Lou is able to take this club to the next level, then more power to him- I'm glad they got him on board.

That said, I think you are simply in denial if you do not accept the fact that this is still Snow's vision of a successful line-up. These are mostly his players. Snow laid the foundation for any success Trotz may lay claim to. If Trotz does have success with this club and with the set of players Snow drafted and developed and they eventually go on to win the Cup you better believe I will hunt down Garth Snow and shake his hand and offer him a long over due thank you.

The blind hatred for the man has grown so old and misplaced it's gotten to the point of pathetic. Don't worry, the man can't hurt you. (Well as far as you can tell. I personally think he's acting Vice-GM or chief advisor to Lou. I doubt they have him back there making popcorn. All the better).

Bottom line, the team appears to have finally turned the corner under Trotz and Lou's stewardship. As a wise man once said, "Can't we all just get along?"
 

periferal

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
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Some would say conversation. Last I checked the tab does say forum.

Duh.

Now go back and read the post I was replying to. That poster brought up the topic, I "conversed" with him, and then he said "it's time to move on." If you want to put something in the past then why engage in conversation in the first place.

That's the point.
 

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