Sign Gostisbehere Long Term?

[FLYguy3911]

You didn't answer my question either....have the Flyers had a longterm contract work out since Clarke?

Yes, it's worked out for the Stars. So far...for one whole year. One year.

I know what Ghost did this year...I'm not knocking the player one bit. And as I said, I have no issue paying a player what he's worth. I'm just a little gunshy of longterm contracts by the Flyers after the previous 15 or so ALL backfired on us. Mike Richards was about as solid of a player as you could ask, and a perfect candidate to hand a crapload of guaranteed money to...how'd that work out?

So if the Flyers had ended up with McDavid last year, you wouldn't extend him next year when he's eligible because of Richards and Carter? Those deals actually worked out for the Flyers but I'll play along. That doesn't make any sense. It's a case by case basis. Every player and situation is different. The Flyers made mistakes in free agency. Unrestricted free agency. You have to pay a premium for free agents to entice them to sign with your club. That's why those deals rarely work out favorably for teams.

They don't have to sign Gostisbehere right now. He is their property. There is no rush to sign him, but it would probably be in their best interest to lock him up to a team friendly deal before he really starts to establish himself. It's not like this is the first year he has shown the potential to be a great player. He's been doing it since the day he was drafted. If you're scared, don't sign him now, wait it out and then be prepared to give him $40+ million is guaranteed money. I have doubts about certain players. Gostisbehere is not one of them.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Oof, now we're citing Andrew MacDonald?

Ya...I think the Andrew MacDonald 6 year deal actually works against longterm deals...not FOR them.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't think you get the type of returns for Carter & Richards if they don't have those caphits.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

So if the Flyers had ended up with McDavid last year, you wouldn't extend him next year when he's eligible because of Richards and Carter? Those deals actually worked out for the Flyers but I'll play along. That doesn't make any sense. It's a case by case basis. Every player and situation is different. The Flyers made mistakes in free agency. Unrestricted free agency. You have to pay a premium for free agents to entice them to sign with your club. That's why those deals rarely work out favorably for teams.

They don't have to sign Gostisbehere right now. He is their property. There is no rush to sign him, but it would probably be in their best interest to lock him up to a team friendly deal before he really starts to establish himself. It's not like this is the first year he has shown the potential to be a great player. He's been doing it since the day he was drafted. If you're scared, don't sign him now, wait it out and then be prepared to give him $40+ million is guaranteed money. I have doubts about certain players. Gostisbehere is not one of them.

Ghost is not a generational player. McDavid has had future NHL superstar written all over him since he was 10. Ghost has always had question marks about his size. He answered those last year. Not when he was 10. Or 15. Or even 20.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I don't think you get the type of returns for Carter & Richards if they don't have those caphits.

I agree. You also don't trade away players on those types of deals if you think they're working out.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Ghost is not a generational player. McDavid has had future NHL superstar written all over him since he was 10. Ghost has always had question marks about his size. He answered those last year. Not when he was 10. Or 15. Or even 20.

Ok so we can ignore Carter and Richards' extensions for "generational" players. Got it.

And if you're admitting Gostisbehere answered the questions about his size last year then what are you scared of?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I agree. You also don't trade away players on those types of deals if you think they're working out.

They worked out fine in LA. Things aren't always black & white in professional sports especially when dealing with salary caps.

 

[Tripod]

Maybe we should wait until Ghost proves himself against his peers:

Award Year
All-ECAC Hockey Rookie Team 2011–12
ECAC Hockey All-Tournament Team 2012
All-ECAC Hockey Second Team 2012–13
AHCA East Second-Team All-American 2012–13
World Junior Championship 2013
All-ECAC Hockey First Team 2013–14
AHCA East First-Team All-American 2013–14
NCAA Division I Men's Ice Hockey Championship 2014
NCAA All-Tournament Team 2014
ECAC Hockey All-Tournament Team 2014
NCAA All-Tournament Team 2014
NCAA Frozen Four Most Outstanding Player 2014
Barry Ashbee Trophy 2015–16
Gene Hart Memorial Award 2016
Calder trophy finalist 2016
World Cup U23 2016

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

They worked out fine in LA. Things aren't always black & white in professional sports especially when dealing with salary caps.

I think this is an important point. Hexy has to make a calculated gamble - if he believes, as I do, as most of us do, that Ghost will continue on his upward trajectory, or even if you believe he will tread water and be just as good as he is now from now on - you sign him long term. Otherwise, he is going to be considerably more expensive.

 

[Tripod]

I think this is an important point. Hexy has to make a calculated gamble - if he believes, as I do, as most of us do, that Ghost will continue on his upward trajectory, or even if you believe he will tread water and be just as good as he is now from now on - you sign him long term. Otherwise, he is going to be considerably more expensive.

I am confident that Ghost will play even better with Morin, Provy or MDZ as his D partner than he did with AMac and Manning.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

as special as a player Ghost is, I still think as others have said you take advantage of the RFA rules and lock him up on a bridge deal.
I love the guy but I would not be in favor of a deal that takes UFA years on his 2nd contract.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think this is an important point. Hexy has to make a calculated gamble - if he believes, as I do, as most of us do, that Ghost will continue on his upward trajectory, or even if you believe he will tread water and be just as good as he is now from now on - you sign him long term. Otherwise, he is going to be considerably more expensive.

Management in professional sports is all about gambles. It's how you get ahead of the pack potentially. The difference in the successful ones between the not so ones is the calculation of them. Sitting on your hands waiting for something to hit you in the face is not how you get ahead ask Steve Tambelini that. That's the type of path most people here seem to be in favor of but forunately I don't think Hextall's that type of guy.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I am confident that Ghost will play even better with Morin, Provy or MDZ as his D partner than he did with AMac and Manning.

I'm in full agreement with you here. Throw Sanheim into the equation and even Myers down the road as well.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Ok so we can ignore Carter and Richards' extensions for "generational" players. Got it.

And if you're admitting Gostisbehere answered the questions about his size last year then what are you scared of?

You tried to compare signing Ghost longterm to Mcdavid...then you laugh at me? Good one.

What's with the "scared" comments? I'm not scared...I'm cautious. After terrible contract after horrible contract after horrendous contract, I think it's...oh, I don't know...sane to think that way? I'd just like to see more than part of one season out of a player before signing him longterm. Call me crazy.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

I am confident that Ghost will play even better with Morin, Provy or MDZ as his D partner than he did with AMac and Manning.

I was just thinking about that today. How good is he going to be when he has someone next to him helping to create space? The last few months of the season, teams were starting to key on him and he still did great. I can't wait.

 

[FLYguy3911]

You tried to compare signing Ghost longterm to Mcdavid...then you laugh at me? Good one.

What's with the "scared" comments? I'm not scared...I'm cautious. After terrible contract after horrible contract after horrendous contract, I think it's...oh, I don't know...sane to think that way? I'd just like to see more than part of one season out of a player before signing him longterm. Call me crazy.

I wasn't comparing Gostisbehere to McDavid. Just showing how flawed your logic is.

I will call you crazy.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think 5 x 5 would be fair. If they want to wait till early on in the season (as Holmgren did with Giroux) that would be fine by me.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/frequentflyers/Giroux_signs_3-year_extension.html

3.5
4
5
6
6.5

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

I wasn't comparing Gostisbehere to McDavid. Just showing how flawed your logic is.

I will call you crazy.

My logic is flawed because most of the long term deals the Flyers have signed, they've had to get bailed out of, but McDavid is a no-brainer to sign long term? I think the "logic" thing is on my side here. I think you've got "They can't always be wrong" on yours.

I hope as a Flyer fan that they sign Ghost long term for a reasonable caphit and he proves me wrong. Again, this is no knock on the player...just the long term aspect. It would be nice if those deals started going our way. There's been a couple...but a heck of a lot more not so much.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Your logic was flawed when you started cherry picking examples that fit your argument. The only RFA deals in your examples in those listed are Carter & Richards but even that's flawed as those contracts wouldn't even be allowed under today's CBA.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

as special as a player Ghost is, I still think as others have said you take advantage of the RFA rules and lock him up on a bridge deal.
I love the guy but I would not be in favor of a deal that takes UFA years on his 2nd contract.

I'm in this camp, but if he comes out and kills it again, I think a longer term deal makes sense. I'm not talking about 8*8 but maybe a five year deal at $4.5-$5.5 million or something like that.

Risk and reward on both ends. Sign him long term ut could back fire. Short term may save you a couple million over a couple years, but cost you a couple million down the road (or he could price himself right out of here if he is consistently at the top of the stat sheet).

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Your logic was flawed when you started cherry picking examples that fit your argument. The only RFA deals in your examples in those listed are Carter & Richards but even that's flawed as those contracts wouldn't even be allowed under today's CBA.

Well if I'm going to compare contracts the Flyers have signed to a potential new one...there isn't a laundry list of Shayne Gostisbehere contracts that were all signed after his entry level and breakout 64 game rookie season and extended in the offseason of 2016.

So I kind of have to go by previous long term contracts Flyer management gave out. Which, for the most part, didn't work out. Which is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[sobrien]

While the list of the negatives certainly carries weight, Couturier's long term deal and Simmonds' long term deal seem to be working out well, and I think many would agree that it offered the Flyers a significant discount for those players in the long run.

If we can get Ghost locked up for a solid 5-6 year deal at around $3-4m, I'd do it.


That being said, I completely expect Ghost to regress a tad this season. Teams will watch him much closer now, and the NHL is a league of imitation...teams will try to replicate how the Pens and Caps played as much as possible, and the Caps shut all of our guys down. So basically I'm saying there's a book out on him, and now we'll see how good he (and the coaching staff) is at adjusting.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Well if I'm going to compare contracts the Flyers have signed to a potential new one...there isn't a laundry list of Shayne Gostisbehere contracts that were all signed after his entry level and breakout 64 game rookie season and extended in the offseason of 2016.

So I kind of have to go by previous long term contracts Flyer management gave out. Which, for the most part, didn't work out. Which is the point I'm trying to make.

So comparing him to a bunch of late 20-30 something UFA's on the downswing of their careers & in some cases to contracts that wouldn't even be allowed in today's CBA makes much more sense then?

 

[FLYguy3911]

My logic is flawed because most of the long term deals the Flyers have signed, they've had to get bailed out of, but McDavid is a no-brainer to sign long term? I think the "logic" thing is on my side here. I think you've got "They can't always be wrong" on yours.

It's really not. Past contracts the Flyers have given out have no bearing on how Gostisbehere fulfills his eventual extension. You don't really seem to understand that so there is no point in arguing it further.

You're a wait and see kind of guy. I get it. That's fine. I'm not in this situation. He's already convinced me he's a big time player and if I can get him at 6+ years and between 4 and 5 million, I'm doing it and not really thinking twice.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

So comparing him to a bunch of late 20-30 something UFA's on the downswing of their careers & in some cases to contracts that wouldn't even be allowed in today's CBA makes much more sense then?

Sorry, thought I included Mike Richards (22) Jeff Carter (24) Jake Voracek (25). (I did)

If I can't compare Flyer long term contracts to potential Flyer long term contracts, because they don't fall exactly in your boundaries...lets just shut down the entire HF discussion boards, because nothing is exactly the same as something else. As already mentioned, there aren't any cases exactly the same as Ghosts. None.