Post-Game Talk: Shutout

[Winger98]

I'd tell Kronwall to keep resting his knee.

 

[Flowah]

I thought DeKeyser handled himself well enough on the power play. He distributed the puck. He kept it in. He shot the puck. Now, before all of you guys start complaining that he's the worst PP guy ever, EVER, keep in mind how awful the regular guys are. The Green-run PP could barely get out of their own zone.

His passes to Mantha were godawful.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I am not people. I am just one. I see only me praising Coreau, while many other posters disagreeing with me. Anyhow, I agree with your statement.
All I am saying is ride the hot hand as far as you can and then when he fails, play Mrazek or Howard and see how it goes.
We have to help both Mrazek and Howard find their game.

Howard has been playing great and has a .934 SV%. He found his game. His problem is staying healthy.

The point is that the fans jump the gun, one bad game/season and you are done. It is not how it works.

I don't know that it's jumping the gun as much as it's a very small sample. It's great that Coreau is playing well while Mrazek falters. But when Howard is healthy he should and likely will start over Coreau.

 

[14ari13]

His passes to Mantha were godawful.

We scored 2 PP goals lately and that PP unit looked good and dangerous and finally it looked like PP. So that unit has to be kept together.

 

[Pavels Dog]

His passes to Mantha were godawful.

Agreed, that was rough to watch.

 

[14ari13]

Howard has been playing great and has a .934 SV%. He found his game. His problem is staying healthy.



I don't know that it's jumping the gun as much as it's a very small sample. It's great that Coreau is playing well while Mrazek falters. But when Howard is healthy he should and likely will start over Coreau.

Thank you.
That is my point. You fans can't see the whole picture. Just because sv% and gaa look good, that does not mean the goalie plays good. When was the last time Howard had the winning record? 4 seasons ago. That season gustavsson led the league in winning%. That season despite sheltered min, Howard had extremely bad winning%.
Howard has played far better this season, but does it tell anything that he is considered to be exposed? Even this season, despite great stats he has the losing record.
So no, we should not go back to Howard.
The pressure/confidence is much more important when it comes to hockey even more so the goalies. Coreau is not better than Howard and Mrazek. 7 games is way too little, but he is red hot, so we go with him.

 

[Flowah]

We scored 2 PP goals lately and that PP unit looked good and dangerous and finally it looked like PP. So that unit has to be kept together.

Okay, but that doesn't make DK's passes any better...

Mantha's an elite shooter with soft hands and he wasn't able to prime up because DK's passes were bad bad bad. Sad to see a weapon like that wasted on the PP because our "QB" can't make what should be a one of the easier passes in the game.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Thank you.
That is my point. You fans can't see the whole picture. Just because sv% and gaa look good, that does not mean the goalie plays good. When was the last time Howard had the winning record? 4 seasons ago. That season gustavsson led the league in winning%. That season despite sheltered min, Howard had extremely bad winning%.
Howard has played far better this season, but does it tell anything that he is considered to be exposed? Even this season, despite great stats he has the losing record.
So no, we should not go back to Howard.
The pressure/confidence is much more important when it comes to hockey even more so the goalies. Coreau is not better than Howard and Mrazek. 7 games is way too little, but he is red hot, so we go with him.

I'm just wondering who exactly you are arguing with. Has someone said that "Coreau is better than Howard and Mrazek"? If so, I haven't seen it. The overwhelming opinion around here (including my own) seems to be that Mrazek is sucking THIS SEASON and Coreau has been winning recently and we all hope Mrazek gets over his slump and is good again ASAP. Which is hardly a controversial point of view.

 

[14ari13]

Okay, but that doesn't make DK's passes any better...

Mantha's an elite shooter with soft hands and he wasn't able to prime up because DK's passes were bad bad bad. Sad to see a weapon like that wasted on the PP because our "QB" can't make what should be a one of the easier passes in the game.

Agree. His passes were beyond terrible. But one step at the time.
Our 2nd PP unit looked real good and dangerous, while unit 1 looked so so at best. I would consider replacing DD with Ouellet, but it might be too much for him at the moment.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

It surprises me a bit that so many posters do not understand head to head goalie battles.
Did you check our record vs habs and pens?
Coreau is 5-1-1
Howard is 5-8-1

Coreau has 2 SOs in his 5 wins. Do you understand how huge this is.
And Howard despite all the stats can't keep a winning record for several seasons now. Howard plays super sheltered min, therefore his stats look good.
Howard clearly stole the game vs the rangers. But this win is far bigger in my books.
We go with the hot hand, Howard and Mrazek will have to take the place in the line behind Coreau.

I very much doubt the Wings will carry 3 healthy goalies for any extended amount of time. When Howard returns, its almost a given that Coreau goes back to the Griffens.

 

[14ari13]

I'm just wondering who exactly you are arguing with. Has someone said that "Coreau is better than Howard and Mrazek"? If so, I haven't seen it. The overwhelming opinion around here (including my own) seems to be that Mrazek is sucking THIS SEASON and Coreau has been winning recently and we all hope Mrazek gets over his slump and is good again ASAP. Which is hardly a controversial point of view.

I quoted the poster who had quoted me, so logically we had the discussion.

And as you quote me, so...

Anyhow, I am the only poster on the board who says that Coreau has been impressive and that he is red hot. It seems as many posters want Howard back in net, while only I say we have to go with Coreau until he cools off.

 

[14ari13]

I very much doubt the Wings will carry 3 healthy goalies for any extended amount of time. When Howard returns, its almost a given that Coreau goes back to the Griffens.

That is the case for now, but if both Howard and Mrazek keep on losing, that will change.
Too early to say. Coreau played only 7 games, that's close too nothing.
But he beat 2 team we struggle to beat, we had like 1 win in 8 home games, he beat the champs which always want to bring their A game vs us. This short stint is impressive.

 

[Frk It]

His passes to Mantha were godawful.

He is not a PP player. It's obvious at this point.

 

[vladdy16]

Hey how bout those d-pairs? What the heck took so long? Marchenko and Dekeyser makes so much sense it's crazy.

 

[Red Stanley]

That is the case for now, but if both Howard and Mrazek keep on losing, that will change.
Too early to say. Coreau played only 7 games, that's close too nothing.
But he beat 2 team we struggle to beat, we had like 1 win in 8 home games, he beat the champs which always want to bring their A game vs us. This short stint is impressive.

You make it sound like the losses with Howard in net are the same as the losses with Mrazek in net. That's just not true. If Howard had the same goal support as Mrazek, his record would match his play, which has been stellar. We could easily have 10 more points had the skaters not squandered numerous goalie efforts. Context is everything. If Jimmy hasn't lost his form after the lengthy injury time, like it's usually the case, he will return to being the #1 goalie without a doubt, losing record or not.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hey how bout those d-pairs? What the heck took so long? Marchenko and Dekeyser makes so much sense it's crazy.

That was the pairing to start the year. Only Marchenko struggled pretty bad back then.

 

[SoupGuru]

Oh my god

I just watched all the power plays and you guys are *****ing about DeKeyser's passing? I mean, my god..... there's nothing there to complain about.

He literally made one bad pass across all the power plays because the puck flipped up on him. If bad passing is your concern, you can find plenty to go after.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Oh my god

I just watched all the power plays and you guys are *****ing about DeKeyser's passing? I mean, my god..... there's nothing there to complain about.

He literally made one bad pass across all the power plays because the puck flipped up on him. If bad passing is your concern, you can find plenty to go after.

You didn't see Mantha in position for a one-timer and Dekeyser pass him the puck about 5 times without being able to once make the pass good enough to one-time? Okay then.

This, btw, coming from one of Dekeyser's biggest fans on this board.

 

[14ari13]

You make it sound like the losses with Howard in net are the same as the losses with Mrazek in net. That's just not true. If Howard had the same goal support as Mrazek, his record would match his play, which has been stellar. We could easily have 10 more points had the skaters not squandered numerous goalie efforts. Context is everything. If Jimmy hasn't lost his form after the lengthy injury time, like it's usually the case, he will return to being the #1 goalie without a doubt, losing record or not.

And if Osgood won game 7 he would.....
There is no if, would, should, could.
It is either or. You win or you lose.
Howard's record is not like 20 games or so. We talk about 4 seasons.
The team struggles to win with Howard in net 4 seasons in a row.
Coreau won 6-3 against the best offence, then he won 1-0 against best goalie in the league. That's what you need your goalie to do. Win high and low scoring games. We are not NJDs, our system is very different.
Would you prefer losing both 1-0? And Howard posting gaa 1 and sv% .950

You can't see the forests for the trees.

 

[SoupGuru]

You didn't see Mantha in position for a one-timer and Dekeyser pass him the puck about 5 times without being able to once make the pass good enough to one-time? Okay then.

This, btw, coming from one of Dekeyser's biggest fans on this board.

I thought I just explained that I didn't. I saw one pass. One.

By that metric everyone on the power play is garbage... Which might not be far from the truth.

I guess every time Mantha gets the puck and doesn't one time it, it's the passer's fault? I don't get it. Mantha wanted a pass for a one timer and Larkin failed to get him a clean pass. Why aren't we talking about that?

It's just frustrating. This team has plenty of real issues. We don't have make stuff up to get outraged about.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Thank you.
That is my point. You fans can't see the whole picture. Just because sv% and gaa look good, that does not mean the goalie plays good. When was the last time Howard had the winning record? 4 seasons ago. That season gustavsson led the league in winning%. That season despite sheltered min, Howard had extremely bad winning%.
Howard has played far better this season, but does it tell anything that he is considered to be exposed? Even this season, despite great stats he has the losing record.
So no, we should not go back to Howard.
The pressure/confidence is much more important when it comes to hockey even more so the goalies. Coreau is not better than Howard and Mrazek. 7 games is way too little, but he is red hot, so we go with him.

Us fans? Oh do tell...

It's not just SV %, it's watching him play. And it's funny that you discount SV% and then resort to something as relatively meaningless as winning % when it comes to evaluating goalie performance.

And you can keep repeated "sheltered minutes" as if it applies to goalies but it's simply not the case with Jimmy this season.

Your Howard hate is showing.

 

[Red Stanley]

And if Osgood won game 7 he would.....
There is no if, would, should, could.
It is either or. You win or you lose.
Howard's record is not like 20 games or so. We talk about 4 seasons.
The team struggles to win with Howard in net 4 seasons in a row.
Coreau won 6-3 against the best offence, then he won 1-0 against best goalie in the league. That's what you need your goalie to do. Win high and low scoring games. We are not NJDs, our system is very different.
Would you prefer losing both 1-0? And Howard posting gaa 1 and sv% .950

You can't see the forests for the trees.

Why are you even talking about past seasons? Is your point that Howard just sucks and is unreliable? Does that not contradict your hot-hand point? It's as if you're saying Coreau is the #1 goalie now because both Howard and Mrazek have sucked. I don't understand what else you could possibly be implying throughout your posting on this topic. Beating the best offense and the top division seed ONCE means absolutely nothing other than the individual result. Teams don't always play to their on-paper potential and even good teams have nights off and bad teams look amazing once in a while. Your evaluation of Coreau is moot based on the tiny sample size used to support it.

Since you highlighted something in my post, let me go over that. There is really no ambiguity to my first point. It's a fact that the skaters let the goaltending down on numerous occasions. There's a big if on the second point, because it's been historically the case. Again, Howard isn't playing because he's injured, not because "he keeps on losing". So exactly what is YOUR point? A great sv% and gaa mean nothing if the goalie can't score goals too?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

And if Osgood won game 7 he would.....
There is no if, would, should, could.
It is either or. You win or you lose.
Howard's record is not like 20 games or so. We talk about 4 seasons.
The team struggles to win with Howard in net 4 seasons in a row.
Coreau won 6-3 against the best offence, then he won 1-0 against best goalie in the league. That's what you need your goalie to do. Win high and low scoring games. We are not NJDs, our system is very different.
Would you prefer losing both 1-0? And Howard posting gaa 1 and sv% .950

You can't see the forests for the trees.

And you're not comparing apples to apples. I can't believe I even need to point this out but you're comparing 4 seasons of an established NHL goaltender to 8 games of a late-developing rookie.

Statistically speaking, that's insane.

 

[14ari13]

And you're not comparing apples to apples. I can't believe I even need to point this out but you're comparing 4 seasons of an established NHL goaltender to 8 games of a late-developing rookie.

Statistically speaking, that's insane.

I give up. You win
The problem is it was the same story with Gustavsson. Then Mrazek. Now Coreau.
You see. Is not 8 games, it is 4 seasons, 3 different goalies, but exactly the same story. The only problem is you can't see it. You can't see the forests for the trees.

This is so obvious that none of the knowledgeable posters bothered to engage in the discussion.
It is beating the dead horse to death about basic hockey.

 

[Red Stanley]

I give up. You win
The problem is it was the same story with Gustavsson. Then Mrazek. Now Coreau.
You see. Is not 8 games, it is 4 seasons, 3 different goalies, but exactly the same story. The only problem is you can't see it. You can't see the forests for the trees.

This is so obvious that none of the knowledgeable posters bothered to engage in the discussion.
It is beating the dead horse to death about basic hockey.

Wow ... so because you hate Howard and refuse to give him his due for this season's play means nobody who's pointed out the holes in your argument knows hockey. Excellent. Btw, since you love history so much, explain to me how a ****** goalie like Howard got to be DRW rookie of the year, made the olympic roster and was named an all-star twice, including during one of the seasons you claim he sucked. So that's 4 of his 8 years as an NHL goalie he's been recognized as being not-so-sucky and then there's this year. In case you're bad at math, that's 5 out of 8 years.