Should we have challenged? (2/25)

[Anglesmith]

I'm curious about your general thoughts.

1) With 1:30 left on the clock, losing the challenge and putting the Leafs on a PP to win the game seems like a massive risk.

2) Hyman was standing in the middle of the crease, not apparently attempting to leave the crease, and Rittich definitely feels as though he was in his way of getting to that loose puck.

I'm on the fence, personally, but I think we should have challenged based on the rulebook. Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[DFF]

Ward is too afraid to lose


Check his diaper

 

[TheHudlinator]

We had killed every power play so far in 2 games and Rittich had stopped every shot over 2 games. Nevermind Hyman being literally in the way not trying to move out of the crease.

 

[Mobiandi]

If we were more skilled and mentally tough, I would have challenged it. But I would not have trusted this current team to hold off the best powerplay in the league for a 12th consecutive time. You also just don't throw away a good goaltending performance like that.

Ward made the right call

 

[super6646]

Not at all. Wasn't conclusive enough, and at that point in the game? Why risk giving up 2 pts?

 

[TheHudlinator]

We owed Rittich the benefit of the doubt that the only reason he got beat was because of Hyman. He earned the shutout and Ward passed on beating on a chance to out right win.

 

[turnagainoutlaw]

I don't think that one is coming back

 

[User1996]

Yeah there’s no chance that call goes our way.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

The point of the challenge at that time is nothing to do with winning and losing, it's about standing up for your goalie and your players.

The lack of a challenge was complete horseshit and an utter betrayal of every player on the ice.

Ward should be fired before I'm done writing this post.

 

[TheHudlinator]

The point of the challenge at that time is nothing to do with winning and losing, it's about standing up for your goalie and your players.

The lack of a challenge was complete horseshit and an utter betrayal of every player on the ice.

Ward should be fired before I'm done writing this post.

Too afraid of being wrong to try and be right.

 

[Mobiandi]

The point of the challenge at that time is nothing to do with winning and losing, it's about standing up for your goalie and your players.

The lack of a challenge was complete horseshit and an utter betrayal of every player on the ice.

Ward should be fired before I'm done writing this post.

I see where you're coming from but why is no one standing up for their goalie during the play?

A buck thirty to go and you have a soft team like the Leafs crashing the net with Rittich on a shutout. Why is no one crosschecking Nylander or Matthews in that goalmouth scramble? And then Monahan with a weak-ass defensive play in OT to let Willy get the game winner.

I was more offended by that than Ward choosing to be conservative

 

[super6646]

Perfectly embodies what this team does to us night in and night out (not in a good way lmao).

 

[Anglesmith]

You challenge it, it's a 50/50 call at best, and probably doesn't go your way.

Noe you're killing a penalty at the end of regulation instead of and probably lose 2-1 in regulation where you've been the worse team.

Instead you get it to OT, get your loser point, and have at least a chance at a win.

1) If it probably doesn't go your way, then it isn't truly 50/50.

2) Powerplays have a <50% chance (significantly) of scoring, especially only 1:30 of a PP.

3) You have a chance of winning either way.

I will say that when I first saw it, I thought there was no way that this could be challenged as goaltender interference, but the more I watched the replays and thought about the rules, my mind completely changed. Hyman enters the crease, makes contact with Rittich, then stays in the crease and does not attempt to vacate the crease. That in itself is a penalty. Rittich wants to play more forward in his crease and attack the puck, but he is not able to do this freely because of Hyman. The split-second delay caused in Rittich attempting to navigate around Hyman's legs is what allows Nylander to get to the puck first.

I think the rules were on the Flames side, but it's always dicey whether the referees actually know the rules.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I see where you're coming from but why is no one standing up for their goalie during the play?

A buck thirty to go and you have a soft team like the Leafs crashing the net with Rittich on a shutout. Why is no one crosschecking Nylander or Matthews in that goalmouth scramble? And then Monahan with a weak-ass defensive play in OT to let Willy get the game winner.

I was more offended by that than Ward choosing to be conservative

Complete reflection on how the leadership of the team is mirrored by play on the ice. That starts with Ward.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Complete reflection on how the leadership of the team is mirrored by play on the ice. That starts with Ward.

or maybe hanifin just overrated

 

[thewall]

Habs fan here, saw the replay, after last night, you guys should have definitely challenged that play. Hyman walks in untouched, almost sits on top of Rittich. Horseshit league and decision once again.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I didn’t watch the game as I am on a flamescation. However watching the replay, that Ward didn’t challenge that is his coaching tenure in a nutshell. The guy just doesn’t know what to do.

Of course he should’ve challenged it. This is where lack of experience seems to keep biting us in the ass with him.

Also, chalk another one up on the board for the Flames incredible record of not sticking up for their goalie.

 

[DCDM]

I think they made the right call not to challenge it. I wouldn't have trusted this team to kill off the ensuing penalty if the challenge had failed.

Ultimately the question we should be asking is, should Lindholm have shot at the empty net from that terrible angle?

 

[Nanuuk]

Given how poor the refereeing was last night, it was the right call not to challenge. I'd say the fix was in.

 

[DFF]

I didn’t watch the game as I am on a flamescation. However watching the replay, that Ward didn’t challenge that is his coaching tenure in a nutshell. The guy just doesn’t know what to do.

Of course he should’ve challenged it. This is where lack of experience seems to keep biting us in the ass with him.

Also, chalk another one up on the board for the Flames incredible record of not sticking up for their goalie.

It's an example of his play not to lose attitude. Problem is you cant defend forever, eventually it will break down. Especially when you cant generate any offense.

Fire Ward. Fire Treliving is the only option moving forward.

 

[Iggys Dome]

If Ward challenges and loses (which knowing our history with this sort of thing, 100% happens) everyone flips their shit and calls him an idiot for giving Toronto a PP with 1:30 remaining tied at 1-1. I dislike him as coach as much as anyone else but he made the right call.

 

[User1996]

Ward’s job is to win hockey games, not stand up for his goalie. It’s not that deep people, even Rittich didn’t appear to be overly upset after the goal. You likely lose the challenge and giving up a PP for the remainder of regulation and into overtime likely gives you next to no chance to win that game. This team is fragile, imagine if we ended up blowing a 1 goal lead in the final 1:30 to not even get a point. That would be demoralizing.

What even is the point of a goalie crease if Hyman can just stand there as long as he wants though? Should blow it down like international hockey

 

[TheHudlinator]

Ward’s job is to win hockey games, not stand up for his goalie. It’s not that deep people, even Rittich didn’t appear to be overly upset after the goal. You likely lose the challenge and giving up a PP for the remainder of regulation and into overtime likely gives you next to no chance to win that game. This team is fragile, imagine if we ended up blowing a 1 goal lead in the final 1:30 to not even get a point. That would be demoralizing.

What even is the point of a goalie crease if Hyman can just stand there as long as he wants though? Should blow it down like international hockey

After watching the whole game did you think we would score 2 goals? We couldn't score a goal on an empty net. This team plays like its afraid to make a mistake because Ward coaches the same way. Look at the Ottawa goal disallowed the night before and tell me how that's more of a call than what Hyman did. The only reason to not challenge and try to win in regulation is because you're more concerned with getting 1 point than winning. The only thing the team had did well in both games was kill penalties and he acted like he didn't believe in them to do that again if they had to. Ward doesn't believe in this team and this team knows it.

 

[User1996]

After watching the whole game did you think we would score 2 goals? We couldn't score a goal on an empty net. This team plays like its afraid to make a mistake because Ward coaches the same way. Look at the Ottawa goal disallowed the night before and tell me how that's more of a call than what Hyman did. The only reason to not challenge and try to win in regulation is because you're more concerned with getting 1 point than winning. The only thing the team had did well in both games was kill penalties and he acted like he didn't believe in them to do that again if they had to. Ward doesn't believe in this team and this team knows it.

A team that has historically been good in 3 on 3? Yeah I think we could have scored 2 quite easily.

It’s a completely different situation than the Gallagher call, you can’t even compare it. Gallagher got driven into Murray and that significant accidental contact caused Murray to lose position and he never got reset. You can argue he had more than enough time, but the ruling on the ice was that Murray never got set after the contact, that’s not applicable at all to the Hyman situation. With Hyman there was really minimal contact, Rittich never got spun around like Murray, and Rittich was set. Sure Hyman was standing in the crease probably preventing Rittich from attacking the puck like he might want to, but it’s not even a remotely comparable play.

Like, you don’t look at case law and judge rulings from assault cases and try to apply it to argue a fraud case.

Choosing not to challenge has nothing to do with preferring 1 point over 2 or playing not to lose. There’s a completely valid argument to be made that choosing not to challenge gave us a better shot at 2 points.

It’s a completely defendable decision, and frankly if we lose the challenge I bet the same people complaining now are complaining that he did.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I wouldn't have trusted this team to kill off the ensuing penalty if the challenge had failed.

That's the issue at the forefront in my mind. As their coach, you are effectively telling your team "I don't trust you to kill the penalty if we're wrong, even though the call was weighted in our favour. Even though you've killed multiple penalties against this team already." I don't care about anything else, that's a reflection of piss-poor leadership on the part of Ward. Yes his job is to win games - you don't do that one game at a time, and he sacrificed a chance at one point here (or losing one point) vs. improving the team culture overall.