Should we have challenged? (2/25)

[InfinityIggy]

I think they made the right call not to challenge it. I wouldn't have trusted this team to kill off the ensuing penalty if the challenge had failed.

Ultimately the question we should be asking is, should Lindholm have shot at the empty net from that terrible angle?

That to me, is a terrible indictment of our coaching.

 

[User1996]

There’s a completely valid opposing argument that says he showed faith and trusted his team could get 2 points in overtime/shootout.

People are just picking and choosing what they want to argue in this thread. I hate Ward as much as anyone, but it’s hilarious how blinded some people are by the hate.

 

[TheHudlinator]

That's the issue at the forefront in my mind. As their coach, you are effectively telling your team "I don't trust you to kill the penalty if we're wrong, even though the call was weighted in our favour. Even though you've killed multiple penalties against this team already." I don't care about anything else, that's a reflection of piss-poor leadership on the part of Ward. Yes his job is to win games - you don't do that one game at a time, and he sacrificed a chance at one point here (or losing one point) vs. improving the team culture overall.

This perfectly sums up my feelings.

On top of it all Hyman is in the center of the crease trying to score while Rittich is trying to cover the puck but can't because Hyman is in the middle of the crease. To me it is so obviously goalie interference (not a penalty)

 

[DCDM]

That's the issue at the forefront in my mind. ... I don't care about anything else, that's a reflection of piss-poor leadership on the part of Ward. Yes his job is to win games - you don't do that one game at a time, and he sacrificed a chance at one point here (or losing one point) vs. improving the team culture overall.

That to me, is a terrible indictment of our coaching.

Completely agree with you guys on this.

 

[InfinityIggy]

There’s a completely valid opposing argument that says he showed faith and trusted his team could get 2 points in overtime/shootout.

People are just picking and choosing what they want to argue in this thread. I hate Ward as much as anyone, but it’s hilarious how blinded some people are by the hate.

That'd be a lot more believable had Ward not passed on challenging the Dube goal just a few games ago, and that was when the team was down 4-1! Tells me he doesn't have faith in the players at all.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Ward doesn't believe in this team, he coaches not to lose instead of trying to win. Is anyone surprised this team doesn't look like it tries to win.

 

[Mobiandi]

Complete reflection on how the leadership of the team is mirrored by play on the ice. That starts with Ward.

Ward is coaching for his job and it seems like his players are playing to get him fired. If this team had any respect for him, low-effort plays in the last minute like Hanifin's and Monahan's don't happen. It seems like this team would rather oust him than mount an attempt to run the table

Conceding at 5 on 6 is a recurring theme with Ward. Like this must be at least the 4th time it's happened this season. Happened three times in the playoffs too

 

[Ace Rimmer]

There’s a completely valid opposing argument that says he showed faith and trusted his team could get 2 points in overtime/shootout.

People are just picking and choosing what they want to argue in this thread. I hate Ward as much as anyone, but it’s hilarious how blinded some people are by the hate.

That's the thing, I don't even really hate him. I do loathe incompetence, both from a technical standpoint and from a people-leader standpoint, and Ward is proven to be atrocious at both.

 

[InfinityIggy]

That's the thing, I don't even really hate him. I do loathe incompetence, both from a technical standpoint and from a people-leader standpoint, and Ward is proven to be atrocious at both.

Yep, seems like he is probably a great dude. This HC role just isn't working though. I wouldn't even hate keeping him on as an assistant coach.

 

[Mobiandi]

Yep, seems like he is probably a great dude. This HC role just isn't working though. I wouldn't even hate keeping him on as an assistant coach.

Oh great, the Gulutzan years are back. I don't think things ever got this tense under Glen though. We're probably past the point of no return now after the Bennett drama

 

[GumbyCan2]

This perfectly sums up my feelings.

On top of it all Hyman is in the center of the crease trying to score while Rittich is trying to cover the puck but can't because Hyman is in the middle of the crease. To me it is so obviously goalie interference (not a penalty)

My thoughts too, although not over-bearingly on Hyman. My take is, never mind Hyman remains in the crease with no one continually pushing him there and is hampering Rittich's abiluty to make a play on the loose puck, when the puck is out front of goalie, WNylander swipes at Rittich's right pad following through with his full shooting motion, missing the puck but pushes Rittich's right pad so he cannot kickout toward the loose puck out ahead of him. This occurs just as Rittich is attempting to lean and push out tk get the puck. At this very moment #88 WN, pulls his stick back and this time does get the puck swiped along the ice under and passed Rittich, into the net for a "called on the ice" good goal.
I have seen many goals disallowed for the action of an opponent touching the goalie inside the crease before a puck enters the goal. This action occurs twice, by 2 different Toronto players, there in the crease of their own accord, Hyman 1st on the first shot leans onto Rittch and then by Nylander reaching in off balance lunging at the loose puck in front of Rittich. Hyman could have gotten out of the crease. No Flames defender was continuing to press or hold Hyman in the crease over Rittich, ( for almost 3 seconds at least).
#88 WNylander's actions were of his own accord and were very aggressive toward shooting the puck being only inches away from the goalie. He misses the puck 1st swipe hitting Rittich's pad and his stick recoils off Rittich to very quickly get a 2nd swipe at the puck. Right now Rittich is attempting to reach for the puck. Nylander's 1st swipe restricts Rittich's push with his right side ( even if everso minimally) and he is unable to smother puck before Nylander's 2nd swipe at the puck is successful, and the puck goes under a moving Rittich.
Sure, this all happened in like 1.5 seconds maybe, but Nylander makes contact with goalie, in the crease before the puck enters the net!
I don't even want to address the "tire-fire" collapse by 2 or 3 Flames players. Keystone cops on Jack Daniels meets the '3 Stooges' there! Useless defensive play and how each of them reacted, performed.
The point is that my instant take on the 1st replay was, "challenge". I saw some form of contact before the puck enterred the net. Not sure the view, angle or replay shot Ward & company were looking at but...I would have challenged!
May not have won the challenge because it was inToronto for one, and...would have been reviewed through off-colored lenses. Anyway...hard fought game until when it really counted. Colloquial over-taken late in game.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Agree very weak coaching confidence!!

Ward doesn't believe in this team, he coaches not to lose instead of trying to win. Is anyone surprised this team doesn't look like it tries to win.

 

[GumbyCan2]

My thoughts too, although not over-bearingly on Hyman. My take is, never mind Hyman remains in the crease with no one continually pushing him there and is hampering Rittich's abiluty to make a play on the loose puck, when the puck is out front of goalie, WNylander swipes at Rittich's right pad following through with his full shooting motion, missing the puck but pushes Rittich's right pad so he cannot kickout toward the loose puck out ahead of him. This occurs just as Rittich is attempting to lean and push out tk get the puck. At this very moment #88 WN, pulls his stick back and this time does get the puck swiped along the ice under and passed Rittich, into the net for a "called on the ice" good goal.
I have seen many goals disallowed for the action of an opponent touching the goalie inside the crease before a puck enters the goal. This action occurs twice, by 2 different Toronto players, there in the crease of their own accord, Hyman 1st on the first shot leans onto Rittch and then by Nylander reaching in off balance lunging at the loose puck in front of Rittich. Hyman could have gotten out of the crease. No Flames defender was continuing to press or hold Hyman in the crease over Rittich, ( for almost 3 seconds at least).
#88 WNylander's actions were of his own accord and were very aggressive toward shooting the puck being only inches away from the goalie. He misses the puck 1st swipe hitting Rittich's pad and his stick recoils off Rittich to very quickly get a 2nd swipe at the puck. Right now Rittich is attempting to reach for the puck. Nylander's 1st swipe restricts Rittich's push with his right side ( even if everso minimally) and he is unable to smother puck before Nylander's 2nd swipe at the puck is successful, and the puck goes under a moving Rittich.
Sure, this all happened in like 1.5 seconds maybe, but Nylander makes contact with goalie, in the crease before the puck enters the net!
I don't even want to address the "tire-fire" collapse by 2 or 3 Flames players. Keystone cops on Jack Daniels meets the '3 Stooges' there! Useless defensive play and how each of them reacted, performed.
The point is that my instant take on the 1st replay was, "challenge". I saw some form of contact before the puck enterred the net. Not sure the view, angle or replay shot Ward & company were looking at but...I would have challenged!
May not have won the challenge because it was inToronto for one, and...would have been reviewed through off-colored lenses. Anyway...hard fought game until when it really counted. Colloquial over-taken late in game.

I am now sending my " detailed report, explanation" of my take on this play, to: gm Tre and to the NHL head offices and officiating.
Lolscand lots of luck on any "understanding", but I feel better.
Poor Flames players! Coach is a "oh well, we lost that one, but I enjoyed the game for the most part!" Would be lucky to win many high school level games with this current "leadership showing".

 

[GumbyCan2]

That'd be a lot more believable had Ward not passed on challenging the Dube goal just a few games ago, and that was when the team was down 4-1! Tells me he doesn't have faith in the players at all.

Exactly. Not the 1st showing of "indifference coaching".
Alot of players are to blame for lack of showing win-at-all-costs, but the coach is too timid to redirect and get the best out of this roster regularly. 50/50 is the likely best or yop we get to this year. Mediocre"croaker" level. Sucks!
Where is the Heat and Burn from our so-called Flames!
More like a dim flicker with the odd "torch blasts" very sporadically.
I might even root for the 'Nucks if this keeps up! Ouch, yuck, stomach unsettling, trader potential but...might be more yo cheer at? Hope not!!!
Light that Flame again and throw the whole can of kerosene & gasoline & box of match-sticks onto the fire.

 

[GumbyCan2]

There’s a completely valid opposing argument that says he showed faith and trusted his team could get 2 points in overtime/shootout.

People are just picking and choosing what they want to argue in this thread. I hate Ward as much as anyone, but it’s hilarious how blinded some people are by the hate.

Gong! Wrong time to get politically correct on last night's game finish. I am not hating on anyone, just to Hate!
I, and I believe many fans are feeling this, am mad and upset that No Challenge on Nylander's goal combined with the tire-fire collapse by a few players. And the late game brain-farts by some of our supposed leaders!
Anyhow, have a nice day. Tomorrow is a new one.
Hopefully better for many reasons.

 

[Flameshomer]

You absolutely have to challenge- even if you're not going to win. It shows confidence in the boys and juices them with extra adrenaline and spite for overtime if you lose the challenge.

IMO terrible decision, but consistent with Ward's complete lack of understanding of player motivation.

 

[User1996]

It shows confidence in the boys and juices them with extra adrenaline and spite for overtime if you lose the challenge.

That’s a pretty bold assumption. A call going against them could also easily deflate them.

There’s just so many assumptions going on around what was going on through Ward and the players minds in this thread. Speaking in absolutes when you aren’t privy to thought processes is not ideal.

 

[GumbyCan2]

That’s a pretty bold assumption. A call going against them could also easily deflate them.

There’s just so many assumptions going on around what was going on through Ward and the players minds in this thread. Speaking in absolutes when you aren’t privy to thought processes is not ideal.

And the goal just scored against you by commitee of net-abusers isn't deflating? Their tires were flattening so fast that they didn't even last a minute into overtime!
Different take and opinion and approach, I guess?
You and the coaching staff, there.
Myself and some fellow fans are over here, on this one.

 

[TheHudlinator]

That’s a pretty bold assumption. A call going against them could also easily deflate them.

There’s just so many assumptions going on around what was going on through Ward and the players minds in this thread. Speaking in absolutes when you aren’t privy to thought processes is not ideal.

Ok put all of that aside and watch a guy stand in your crease for 5 seconds blocking your goalie from covering the puck, making no effort to leave the crease infact actively try scoring in the crease, and ended your goalies 2 game shutout and tell me why you don't challenge it.

 

[User1996]

Ok put all of that aside and watch a guy stand in your crease for 5 seconds blocking your goalie from covering the puck, making no effort to leave the crease infact actively try scoring in the crease, and ended your goalies 2 game shutout and tell me why you don't challenge it.

Addressed most of this in my reply to you on page 1.

 

[User1996]

And the goal just scored against you by commitee of net-abusers isn't deflating? Their tires were flattening so fast that they didn't even last a minute into overtime!
Different take and opinion and approach, I guess?
You and the coaching staff, there.
Myself and some fellow fans are over here, on this one.

Would seem you should check the poll results. Lots of fellow fans on my side too

 

[TheHudlinator]

Addressed most of this in my reply to you on page 1.

I disagree it doesn't go our way, Hyman is a foot or 2 from being in the net and doesn't try to move.

 

[User1996]

I disagree it doesn't go our way, Hyman is a foot or 2 from being in the net and doesn't try to move.

“An attacking players position, whether inside or outside of the crease, should not, by itself, determine whether a goal is allowed or disallowed”

 

[TheHudlinator]

“An attacking players position, whether inside or outside of the crease, should not, by itself, determine whether a goal is allowed or disallowed”

"an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper's ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal;"

He didn't let Rittich come out and cover the puck

 

[User1996]

"an attacking player, either by his positioning or by contact, impairs the goalkeeper's ability to move freely within his crease or defend his goal;"

He didn't let Rittich come out and cover the puck

I mean, the puck was there, he didn’t have to come out to cover it really. It was within reach.

Like, Rittich said in his interview he was literally just about to cover it when it was poked through him. I don’t think there’s any contact there that supports the argument Rittich could play that appropriately.