Should the Wings prioritize being a big "hard to play against" team?

[obey86]

I'm hearing that the Wings will be in great shape if they can add a core player or two, to be complimented by the players they have recently drafted.

Not exactly a hot take, in and of itself. But the other issue is, how exactly does anybody expect Detroit to land those core pieces, when management would sooner get a root canal than draft near the top of the lottery?

Regardless of the approach they're taking on secondary pieces, most of it hinges on the cornerstones they've practically segregated themselves away from getting.

Nearly everyone on this message board who thinks Holland is terrible at this job believes the Red Wings are going to be a bottom 3-5 team in the NHL this year. Doesn't that imply they will have a great chance of drafting near the top of the lottery?

 

[Heaton]

Nearly everyone on this message board who hates Ken Holland thinks the Red Wings are going to be a bottom 3-5 team in the NHL this year. Doesn't that imply they will have a great chance of drafting near the top of the lottery?

Depends how many picks/prospects he trades for veteran help.

 

[obey86]

Depends how many picks/prospects he trades for veteran help.

He's made an entire FOUR trades of picks/prospects for veteran help since 2008. And three of those trades happened at one trade deadline (2015) when the Wings were a bubble playoff team trying to get in. The other trade was 2012 for Quincey. So, he's made trades for vets just two out of the last eight seasons and the Wings were playoff contenders every year he did so.

What in his past history, or how he handled last year's deadline when the Wings stunk, leads you to believe he is more likely than not to trade a bunch of prospects and/or picks for vets when the team is really bad?

 

[waltdetroit]

Imagine Dahlin (or another great Dman) playing 30 minutes, a 1st line center playing with Mantha, Larkin/AA/Rasmussen flying around on the second line then Bertuzzi, Givanni Smith, Zablocki, Fraser, that 6'6 dman etc all filling out the rest of the line up and playing tough all game long

stop stop - I'm drooling on my shirt

 

[Reddwit]

Imagine Dahlin (or another great Dman) playing 30 minutes, a 1st line center playing with Mantha, Larkin/AA/Rasmussen flying around on the second line then Bertuzzi, Givanni Smith, Zablocki, Fraser, that 6'6 dman etc all filling out the rest of the line up and playing tough all game long

That's great and all, but for all that to be great, it requires the two pieces you mentioned that are simultaneously (a) the 2 pieces we don't have, and (b) the 2 pieces that are the hardest to get.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Not exactly a hot take, in and of itself. But the other issue is, how exactly does anybody expect Detroit to land those core pieces, when management would sooner get a root canal than draft near the top of the lottery?

We can't control the lottery. 2 teams that had a worse lottery% than us this year won the lottery. It's going to take lottery luck and/or finding those elusive core pieces that appear outside the top 5 picks. Or, if we're as bad at drafting as many here think, we can just do nothing and soon be the worst team in the league and guarantee at least a #4 pick.

 

[jkutswings]

He's made an entire FOUR trades of picks/prospects for veteran help since 2008. And three of those trades happened at one trade deadline (2015) when the Wings were a bubble playoff team trying to get in. The other trade was 2012 for Quincey. So, he's made trades for vets just two out of the last eight seasons and the Wings were playoff contenders every year he did so.

What in his past history, or how he handled last year's deadline when the Wings stunk, leads you to believe he is more likely than not to trade a bunch of prospects and/or picks for vets when the team is really bad?

So, when people were pessimistic about how Holland would act at the trade deadline, others countered that he had never been in that situation before, so we couldn't use past actions to predict his behavior.

But now, we are supposed to rely on his track record during The Streak, in assuming he won't pull out all the stops to try to return to the playoffs in the last year of his contract?

He has said the following on record:

He's not interested in a traditional rebuild.
He believes a traditional rebuild would only kick in after multiple years of missing the playoffs.
He wants fans to see playoff games THIS YEAR.

And fans here largely expect this to be the second year in a row of missing the playoffs.

So either he's going to take it largely in stride, that his first year in the new arena (and last year before his contract comes up with a new owner) will be a failure...

...or he will fight it tooth and nail. I'm betting the latter.

 

[DetroitRed]

Should they focus on size?

Not really. Not unless the big guy in question is at least as skilled as the smaller player with whom he's competing. And that goes for any role, even for goons: If there is a small goon who is a better fighter, then the small goon is the one you want. You want whoever does the job best.

If a small guy is putting up better numbers despite his stature, then its self-explanatory: the small guy is better.

Moreover, in a game where speed is increasingly important, while having some big dudes can be an asset (if they are highly skilled), you also need a lot of lighter-framed, agile players. Big can be a handicap.

If you are drafting for size over skill, then you are gambling. Especially when you pass over guys who have shown themselves to be more skilled while being almost as big.

I happen to think a 6'3" forward who can produce offense at a nice clip is a dream prospect. Or should be, because that's pretty good size. A 6'6" forward, would be better if his production is as high or higher, but that isn't the case for the 2017 first-round pick. In the case of the Wings, they actually made a 'reach' pick for size alone, and did so with their best opportunity in the draft. It wouldn't have surprised me to see Holland wearing clown shoes at the press conference after that pick. He might as well.

 

[newfy]

That's great and all, but for all that to be great, it requires the two pieces you mentioned that are simultaneously (a) the 2 pieces we don't have, and (b) the 2 pieces that are the hardest to get.

Well obviously. The wings just misse the playoffs for the first time in 25 years, they havent had a pick high enough to get those types of players (basically the only way you can get them). SO what theyve done now is at least found an identity and direction they want the team to go forward with and have been adding players that fit that mold. When they get a top 3 pick theyll hopefully add those core guys.

Would it be better if they didnt have any direction? People are acting like a big tough team cant win in the NHL when realistically those are the teams that have been winning the most post lockout or at least teams that have good balance of grit and skill (something the wings havent had since 2008). Pittsburgh is really the only exception, even the wings in 08 were very hard to play against. Byfuglien and Bickell were huge for the Hawks outside of their core guys like Kane and Toews

 

[Fear]

That's great and all, but for all that to be great, it requires the two pieces you mentioned that are simultaneously (a) the 2 pieces we don't have, and (b) the 2 pieces that are the hardest to get.

Ya add a number 1D and a number 1 C to any team in the league ON TOP OF everything they currently have and they are immediate contenders.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Well obviously. The wings just misse the playoffs for the first time in 25 years, they havent had a pick high enough to get those types of players (basically the only way you can get them). SO what theyve done now is at least found an identity and direction they want the team to go forward with and have been adding players that fit that mold. When they get a top 3 pick theyll hopefully add those core guys.

Would it be better if they didnt have any direction? People are acting like a big tough team cant win in the NHL when realistically those are the teams that have been winning the most post lockout or at least teams that have good balance of grit and skill (something the wings havent had since 2008). Pittsburgh is really the only exception, even the wings in 08 were very hard to play against. Byfuglien and Bickell were huge for the Hawks outside of their core guys like Kane and Toews

Those teams also mixed in skill.

If you're going to draft for size, that's fine, but a few picks of pure talent have to be mixed in.

Being hard to play against also means you win sometimes by scoring goals.

 

[newfy]

Those teams also mixed in skill.

If you're going to draft for size, that's fine, but a few picks of pure talent have to be mixed in.

Being hard to play against also means you win sometimes by scoring goals.

That's fine but why do people act like the 2 are mutually exclusive? Mantha was a 50 goal scorer with tonnes of talent but concerns about his effort and character. Definitely more of a skill pick than size. Cholowski is a skill pick. Svechnikov is a pretty good balance of both and Rasmussen while huge was still on pace for 50 goals this year. Larkin was a mix of defensive play/energy and skill.

To me it looks like the wings are very balanced with their drafting and trying to add both size and skill based on their last few first rounders but some people are acting like they've bveen drafting a bunch of Tyler Biggs and Mcilraths

 

[odin1981]

The only good thing about this situation is because the team is going for grit it leans towards them accepting a incoming tank. Because most often times, teams go for more physical players to sate the aggressive interests of fans when their team ****ing sucks. However if they continue to go big or hard over obvious more skilled player selections in the draft in say 3-4 years than it more than likely means that Wright isn't right for the job. Because his time in C-bus indicates he is more predicated on the bigger, rough, and tumble players more so over than skilled, and technical players.