Should the Wings prioritize being a big "hard to play against" team?

[lilidk]

Been big and hard is a good idea but in todays fest pace game of hockey speed is must. Team need to get fester , I don't know if it is coachable

 

[izlez]

Correct again.

Sandstrom-Yzerman-McCarty
Brown-Fedorov-Kozlov
Shanahan-Larionov-Lapointe
Maltby-Draper-Kocur

Lots of size and grit throughout those lines.

Who's the hack that put the 4th line grinder on the top line? That guy should be fired immediately

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This is the Brian Burke rhetoric of a hockey mind that's been long passed by the game.

 

[Retire91]

If you want to know how going for the playoffs with only one elite player and doing it by surrounding them with gritty players with no talent looks, just see the Burke era Maple Leafs. Its really all you need to reference to see the future of Red Wings hockey until Holland is gone.

 

[Pavels Dog]

If you want to know how going for the playoffs with only one elite player and doing it by surrounding them with gritty players with no talent looks, just see the Burke era Maple Leafs. Its really all you need to reference to see the future of Red Wings hockey until Holland is gone.

Who are these gritty players with no talent you speak of?

Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, Lindstrom, Cholowski?
Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Rasmussen, Svechnikov?

Be more specific please.

 

[jkutswings]

Who are these gritty players with no talent you speak of?

Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, Lindstrom, Cholowski?
Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Rasmussen, Svechnikov?

Be more specific please.

Over half the guys you listed don't even count, seeing as they haven't even made the roster.

Last year:

Abdelkader
Helm
Sheahan
Miller
Ott
Glendening
And technically McIlrath, although he was just a throw in.

 

[Retire91]

I find it ironic to see McIlrath's name come up since the Rasmussen has a pretty good shot at mirroring how the McIlrath pick worked out for NYR. Size over everything else.

 

[Ezekial]

I find it ironic to see McIlrath's name come up since the Rasmussen has a pretty good shot at mirroring how the McIlrath pick worked out for NYR. Size over everything else.

Rasmussen is more than just a big body, what a joke this has become.

Also when did we become a slow team, improve our transition game on the back end and speed isn't a problem, we have very few pylons.

 

[theD86]

I for one was good with the Rasmussen pick. Bigger is the way the game is shifting.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I find it ironic to see McIlrath's name come up since the Rasmussen has a pretty good shot at mirroring how the McIlrath pick worked out for NYR. Size over everything else.

Except one can skate and play with the puck while the other obviously cannot. You should try watching Rasmussen play sometime.

 

[Retire91]

Weather or not its exaggerated he was not a number 9 pick. The only hope people were hanging onto in this baord was that the team would eventually fall on its face and Holland would see the need to rebuild with some high picks.

In one draft he trades down, and in the next draft he doesn't even trade down he just picks down.

 

[Ennui]

Been big and hard is a good idea but in todays fest pace game of hockey speed is must. Team need to get fester , I don't know if it is coachable

Lucky for us, Fester's a free agent; I don't know how coachable he is, though, I've heard he's a bit of a monster.

 

[Shaman464]

Who are these gritty players with no talent you speak of?

Hronek, Saarijarvi, Hicketts, Lindstrom, Cholowski?
Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Rasmussen, Svechnikov?

Be more specific please.

Which of these players is elite?

 

[Pavels Dog]

Over half the guys you listed don't even count, seeing as they haven't even made the roster.

Last year:

Abdelkader
Helm
Sheahan
Miller
Ott
Glendening
And technically McIlrath, although he was just a throw in.

If that was a list of our top prospects and best young players, you'd maybe have a point. I don't get how people can be upset that we're supposedly drafting for size and not skill, but then when all the skill we have drafted is mentioned it doesn't matter because it's not all on the roster already? Maybe, just maybe, we should wait and see if our '17 picks are really all talentless bums before deeming our future team a group of Dylan McIlraths.

Which of these players is elite?

It wasn't about filling the roster with elite talent, it was about not having any skill. If we find/develop an elite player or two they won't be surrounded by nothing but grit.

 

[SirloinUB]

Weather or not its exaggerated he was not a number 9 pick. The only hope people were hanging onto in this baord was that the team would eventually fall on its face and Holland would see the need to rebuild with some high picks.

In one draft he trades down, and in the next draft he doesn't even trade down he just picks down.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but many experts disagree:

Big 6-foot-6 (technically, listed at 6-foot-5 and 3/4) Tri City centre Michael Rasmussen, whose range was from four to 12. Rasmussen moves well for a big man and plays the game with an edge but can make plays, too.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The kind of team I want the Wings to be more than anything is good.

More than anything they need core players. The kind of team they become can be greatly impacted by the rest of the roster. I'll take speed and skill or tough to play against. Or in a perfect world all of the above. But for chrissakes let's get some core players.

 

[Retire91]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion but many experts disagree:

We can always hope for the best but most any scouting on him lists him as a complementary player with a potential ceiling but its a longshot. He is like a Brian Boyle. Not saying those players aren't important but we didn't need Brian Boyle in this draft. We needed to go for someone with a ceiling of #1 center or #1D. May this pan out so that I eat my words we all can hope.

 

[SirloinUB]

He is like a Brian Boyle.

Agreed to Disagree I suppose

 

[Marky9er]

Saginaw drafted Necas. Seems they didn't get the memo about the Wings picks.

 

[HockeyinHD]

So they literally hurt themselves for two drafts by moving down through trading or being just slightly less **** for a year. Literally you're not making this any better for the Wings org here.

What you guys tend to not understand on a very regular basis is that I'm not trying to make things better or worse for anyone. I'm merely explaining why they did what they did.

They want things. You want different things. When you ignore that premise you end up in intellectual cul-de-sacs all the time because it's impossible to connect your logic to their intent and you refuse to allow other intents to be valid.

 

[jkutswings]

If that was a list of our top prospects and best young players, you'd maybe have a point. I don't get how people can be upset that we're supposedly drafting for size and not skill, but then when all the skill we have drafted is mentioned it doesn't matter because it's not all on the roster already? Maybe, just maybe, we should wait and see if our '17 picks are really all talentless bums before deeming our future team a group of Dylan McIlraths.


It wasn't about filling the roster with elite talent, it was about not having any skill. If we find/develop an elite player or two they won't be surrounded by nothing but grit.

You're moving the goalposts. The original statement was about going for the playoffs with one elite player (Zetterberg), surrounded by a bunch of gritty players with no talent (Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Miller, Ott, Glendening, McIlrath).

The prospects aren't even part of that equation, because none of them were involved in going for the playoffs, at least not in the NHL.

Now down the road, if any of them pan out to a significant degree, then sure, that obviously changes things. But a handful of kids having a decent time in the AHL or other developmental leagues does nothing to change the status of where the big club is right now, because there's no imminent influx of significant help. It'll be the occasional call-ups for a few games here and there, as usual, with the ones that stick very gradually being added to the roster.

In other words: no major changes. The Wings stink.

 

[newfy]

You're moving the goalposts. The original statement was about going for the playoffs with one elite player (Zetterberg), surrounded by a bunch of gritty players with no talent (Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Miller, Ott, Glendening, McIlrath).

The prospects aren't even part of that equation, because none of them were involved in going for the playoffs, at least not in the NHL.

Now down the road, if any of them pan out to a significant degree, then sure, that obviously changes things. But a handful of kids having a decent time in the AHL or other developmental leagues does nothing to change the status of where the big club is right now, because there's no imminent influx of significant help. It'll be the occasional call-ups for a few games here and there, as usual, with the ones that stick very gradually being added to the roster.

In other words: no major changes. The Wings stink.

Pretty sure the point of this thread is the wings drafting and rebuilding as a big, tough to play against team. The goal posts havent been moved at all, the prospects are the main point of this thread. No one in this thread has been syaing go sign Chris Neil, trade for Tootoo etc.

People are complaining about the wings drafting big guys that can skate and have skill instead of 5'10 cute players.

 

[Pavels Dog]

You're moving the goalposts. The original statement was about going for the playoffs with one elite player (Zetterberg), surrounded by a bunch of gritty players with no talent (Abdelkader, Helm, Sheahan, Miller, Ott, Glendening, McIlrath).

The prospects aren't even part of that equation, because none of them were involved in going for the playoffs, at least not in the NHL.

Nah, he was comparing to Burke-era Leafs and saying that's what the Wings future is. And I don't even think it would have been true this year.

 

[newfy]

Nah, he was comparing to Burke-era Leafs and saying that's what the Wings future is. And I don't even think it would have been true this year.

The funny thing about the Burke era leafs too is that they were never actually a tough team to play against. He basically assembled a bunch of powder puffs, then threw Colton Orr on the fourth line and thought they were tough. Frazer McLaren for one year too I guess.

The wings are drafting guys that can play more than 5 minutes a night and be hard to play against 60 minutes a game. That alone wont win you games, but if they add a few more high skilled guys to that tough group its a recipe to win in the playoffs. Even a guy like Mantha with the right group around him will play tough and stick up for teammates. If everyone pans out and they get a couple of high picks to add the skill to win itll suk to play the wings.

Imagine Dahlin (or another great Dman) playing 30 minutes, a 1st line center playing with Mantha, Larkin/AA/Rasmussen flying around on the second line then Bertuzzi, Givanni Smith, Zablocki, Fraser, that 6'6 dman etc all filling out the rest of the line up and playing tough all game long

 

[jkutswings]

I'm hearing that the Wings will be in great shape if they can add a core player or two, to be complimented by the players they have recently drafted.

Not exactly a hot take, in and of itself. But the other issue is, how exactly does anybody expect Detroit to land those core pieces, when management would sooner get a root canal than draft near the top of the lottery?

Regardless of the approach they're taking on secondary pieces, most of it hinges on the cornerstones they've practically segregated themselves away from getting.