Speculation: Should the Ducks retire #9 for Paul Kariya

[Kybosh]

I feel like I'm in an interesting position because one, I was a big Paul Kariya fan and two, the Ottawa Senators are my team. I say that because I see how some of you talk about how Kariya left with Murray as the GM... well here Murray is in Ottawa and this is where it gets interesting because who left Ottawa before this season started? Daniel Alfredsson. Alfie had told people that he was planning on staying with the Senators before signing with newly assigned division rival Detroit Red Wings (at slightly below market with bonuses to make it fair).

Now there are plenty of Sens fans who are still butt hurt over that move and it's still fairly recent so I bet that will change as time passes. Now almost nobody in Ottawa will disagree that Alfie's 11 should be retired. Even though like Kariya, Alfie only managed to Captain his team to one final in his time with the franchise. Now Alfie was never as talented as Kariya, has not won any individual awards, not led his team to anymore success than Kariya and left on some bad terms but is still a lock for his jersey being retired.

Now I know you guys won a cup without him (against my Sens ) and there are a couple of players who might have some similar value (being more positive because of the cup) but that team that won had three guaranteed HHOFer's plus Getzlaf and Perry have time to prove thier cases. Comparing that to team that surrounded Kariya for most of his Career as a Duck is not very fair.

Now I am biased and do hope he gets Honoured by the Franchise for what he has done for them. Even I would agree that he is on the fence but in my mind he has to hanging on the side where the rafters are .

 

[snarktacular]

I feel like I'm in an interesting position because one, I was a big Paul Kariya fan and two, the Ottawa Senators are my team. I say that because I see how some of you talk about how Kariya left with Murray as the GM... well here Murray is in Ottawa and this is where it gets interesting because who left Ottawa before this season started? Daniel Alfredsson. Alfie had told people that he was planning on staying with the Senators before signing with newly assigned division rival Detroit Red Wings (at slightly below market with bonuses to make it fair).

Now there are plenty of Sens fans who are still butt hurt over that move and it's still fairly recent so I bet that will change as time passes. Now almost nobody in Ottawa will disagree that Alfie's 11 should be retired. Even though like Kariya, Alfie only managed to Captain his team to one final in his time with the franchise. Now Alfie was never as talented as Kariya, has not won any individual awards, not led his team to anymore success than Kariya and left on some bad terms but is still a lock for his jersey being retired.

Now I know you guys won a cup without him (against my Sens ) and there are a couple of players who might have some similar value (being more positive because of the cup) but that team that won had three guaranteed HHOFer's plus Getzlaf and Perry have time to prove thier cases. Comparing that to team that surrounded Kariya for most of his Career as a Duck is not very fair.

Now I am biased and do hope he gets Honoured by the Franchise for what he has done for them. Even I would agree that he is on the fence but in my mind he has to hanging on the side where the rafters are .

Alfredsson has the magic 1000 games and 1000 points to make it in the hall, with that number reached all with Ottawa. And 17 seasons.

Kariya has a higher PPG, but hasn't reached 1000 games and 1000 points. And only 9 seasons with the Ducks. And only about 70% of his (let's round up to) 1000 points were with the Ducks.

 

[airforceones25]

Alfredsson has the magic 1000 games and 1000 points to make it in the hall, with that number reached all with Ottawa. And 17 seasons.

Kariya has a higher PPG, but hasn't reached 1000 games and 1000 points. And only 9 seasons with the Ducks. And only about 70% of his (let's round up to) 1000 points were with the Ducks.

Okay so what's your response to the people that claim Scott Niedermayer should have his number retired.

Scotty didn't even reach 400 games.

Lame reasoning

 

[Kybosh]

Alfredsson has the magic 1000 games and 1000 points to make it in the hall, with that number reached all with Ottawa. And 17 seasons.

Kariya has a higher PPG, but hasn't reached 1000 games and 1000 points. And only 9 seasons with the Ducks. And only about 70% of his (let's round up to) 1000 points were with the Ducks.

Those milestones are great but we are talking about 11 freaking games in Kariya's case and 7 years as your captain is still the longest serving captain in franchise history. I'm sure he will get a pass on that because of two lockouts and the fact he received that nasty cross check. Nobody in their right minds would argue Alfie > Kariya who only has about 40 less goals in 300 less games. Although I know Alfie has more history with the Sens than Kariya built with the Ducks he still left them with as much as Kariya did. No cup and a little pissed off.

 

[snarktacular]

Okay so what's your response to the people that claim Scott Niedermayer should have his number retired.

Scotty didn't even reach 400 games.

Lame reasoning

My response is I agree. Scotty's jersey shouldn't be retired by us. Bourque also shouldn't be retired by Colorado.

Those milestones are great but we are talking about 11 freaking games in Kariya's case and 7 years as your captain is still the longest serving captain in franchise history. I'm sure he will get a pass on that because of two lockouts and the fact he received that nasty cross check. Nobody in their right minds would argue Alfie > Kariya who only has about 40 less goals in 300 less games. Although I know Alfie has more history with the Sens than Kariya built with the Ducks he still left them with as much as Kariya did. No cup and a little pissed off.

11 games is for HOF requirements, not the Ducks. Kariya is like 400 game short of 1000 with Anaheim. Longevity matters for the HOF.

 

[HockeyShack]

Those milestones are great but we are talking about 11 freaking games in Kariya's case and 7 years as your captain is still the longest serving captain in franchise history. I'm sure he will get a pass on that because of two lockouts and the fact he received that nasty cross check. Nobody in their right minds would argue Alfie > Kariya who only has about 40 less goals in 300 less games. Although I know Alfie has more history with the Sens than Kariya built with the Ducks he still left them with as much as Kariya did. No cup and a little pissed off.

You should do a little research and see how the team screwed Alfie outta a ton of money. I don't blame him for leaving and he also left as a UFA.

 

[Kybosh]

You should do a little research and see how the team screwed Alfie outta a ton of money. I don't blame him for leaving and he also left as a UFA.

I know about these things already... haha but thanks for trying to inform me. What I'm trying to do is draw a parallel between two players who have some similarities but most of you seem keen on ignoring what's right about what I wrote and focused on trying to put my points down.

Facts:
- Both are longest standing captains in team's histories (both teams came in at around the same time)
- Both have never really won any major awards and only reached the Stanley Cup Finals (Alfie did win a Calder and Kariya did win two Lady Byngs whoopie!)
- Both left on bad terms in the most fans perspectives when Murray was GM when it was stated that said player would return

Popular Opinions:
- Kariya was the better player
- Kariya left on worse terms
- Alfie had the better team/linemates
- Alfie's number will get retired

I would be interested to see what a vote from the fan base in Anaheim would produce for this question and would respect what all the fans would say about this. I find HFB more negative than rl fans and more fickle in their beliefs so I'd be curious how the city felt 10 years after.

I would like to think I add to this conversation because I come in with a different perspective. I was more of a fan of the player not the team but will admit to being biased as long as you guys can too.

 

[Paul4587]

Kariya was the better player but Alfredsson had far better longevity and was a better playoff performer.

 

[imbatman]

Okay so what's your response to the people that claim Scott Niedermayer should have his number retired.

Scotty didn't even reach 400 games.

Lame reasoning

Its pretty standard in sports to retire the jersey of hall of famers who played any significant time with your club. If Scotty wasnt a hall of famer, I doubt there would be much talk of a jersey retirement.

And yes, I believe Pronger probably has as much of a chance of getting his jersey retired as Kariya.

 

[duxfan8]

Kariya, IMO, doesn't get #9 retired. I don't even think he wants it. He is the one who has strayed away from the organization. BM offered him a contract and a position within the organization. If he's not ok with it after 10 years, I don't think it comes up again.

 

[Sojourn]

a poster earlier brought up an interesting point

let's say selanne retired after the 03-04 season. would he have his jersey retired by the ducks?

i'd say no

I'd agree with you. If Selanne doesn't return, his jersey isn't retired. In my opinion, his return, and the two seasons from 2005-2007 effectively locked him up as our first retired jersey. The seasons since have just reinforced it.

 

[Sojourn]

Okay so what's your response to the people that claim Scott Niedermayer should have his number retired.

Scotty didn't even reach 400 games.

Lame reasoning

Scott Niedermayer would be a special case, and for the record I would have zero problem if the team decided not to retire his jersey.

Still, he was a 1st ballot HOF'er, was a Norris finalist twice for us, captained the team to the Cup, won the Conn Smythe, and won an Olympic Gold captaining Canada(as an Anaheim Duck). That's just his resume while he was a Duck. Basically, if his number is retired it's because he was as accomplished a player as you'll see.

Even with all of that, I'd still be on the fence regarding jersey retirement. I think it comes down to how the team feels. For some teams, you pretty much need to spend your career with them, and have a truly elite career. Think Lidstrom, Howe, or Yzerman in Detroit. For others, well, a player like Niedermayer would have his jersey retired. If Anaheim wants to be the former, Selanne would be the only retired jersey for a long time. If it's the latter, well, it's basically whomever Anaheim feels deserves it.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Neither Scotty nor Pronger should be retired even though we don't win a cup without them. Jersey retirements are based more on lifetime achievements with the specific club. After Teemu, I'd go as far as adding Jiggy, but I understand those who might oppose. Beyond those two, no else should be at this point in time.

 

[mightyquack]

Neither Scotty nor Pronger should be retired even though we don't win a cup without them. Jersey retirements are based more on lifetime achievements with the specific club. After Teemu, I'd go as far as adding Jiggy, but I understand those who might oppose. Beyond those two, no else should be at this point in time.

Agreed. Wouldn't retire Scotty or Pronger's.

I'd be fine with Jiggy, I think it's going to be a while till anyone beats his goaltending records in Anaheim.

 

[Terry Yake]

i don't think they should retire scotty's #27 as he only played 5 seasons with the team but a valid argument could be made, although he'll always be remembered more for his years with the devils

pronger's #25 won't get retired for sure though. 3 seasons doesn't warrant a jersey retirement even if he did win a cup here

 

[Kybosh]

My response is I agree. Scotty's jersey shouldn't be retired by us. Bourque also shouldn't be retired by Colorado.


11 games is for HOF requirements, not the Ducks. Kariya is like 400 game short of 1000 with Anaheim. Longevity matters for the HOF.

Yeah I realize this. Did you not read my post? You wouldn't bother arguing that two lockouts in his career can't cancel that outrageous gap of 11 games? Because lockouts are totally a sign of a players longevity...missing 110 games because the league is shutdown is totally a lack of durability on Kariya's part.

Also it's the HOCKEY not NHL hall of fame and Kariya has won an Olympic Gold (Also earning silver after losing in a freaking shootout), World Junior Gold, and World Championship Gold (silver). That's some decent hardware for an international career plus being on teams that break slumps like Canada's first team to win gold in 50 years in the Olympics and first team in 33 years to win a world championship are nice to say as well.

Kariya was the better player but Alfredsson had far better longevity and was a better playoff performer.

Alfredsson also had way better linemates/team around in his playoff stints. Guys like Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Yashin to name a few. Kariya saw only three playoffs with the Ducks. 1 with Selanne where he was fantastic, 1 where he got hurt I believe and finally on a team that rode a goalie in with no real true talent to play with. Alfie had 12 straight years of playoffs on a team that was a legit contender so of course his playoffs numbers would look better.

Now this is my last post here and I will "leave you guys alone".

 

[mightyquack]

Now this is my last post here and I will "leave you guys alone". I stand by my last post and would like to see what the people of Anaheim have to say and not a select few of HFBers that are from Anaheim.

Why come in here and post then if you don't care what people say here?

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Why come in here and post then if you don't care what people say here?

He's gone to build a shrine to PK in front of the HHOF. Let him go.

 

[Kybosh]

Why come in here and post then if you don't care what people say here?

I wrote that in spite and retracted it after I reread my post because I did feel it was a bit rude I'm sorry. Even though I WANT Kariya to be in the hall of fame and WANT his number to be retired with Anaheim I know both are up hill battles. The only one that I think he will eventually win is the HHOF ballot and that might help his other case down the road. (also Depending how much more Getzy and Perry do for you guys and I'm hoping more for you)

 

[Kybosh]

He's gone to build a shrine to PK in front of the HHOF. Let him go.

They already have a his jersey, and a nice little bio in the international section, I'll start there.

 

[Ducksgo*]

Yeah I realize this. Did you not read my post? You wouldn't bother arguing that two lockouts in his career can't cancel that outrageous gap of 11 games? Because lockouts are totally a sign of a players longevity...missing 110 games because the league is shutdown is totally a lack of durability on Kariya's part.

Also it's the HOCKEY not NHL hall of fame and Kariya has won an Olympic Gold (Also earning silver after losing in a freaking shootout), World Junior Gold, and World Championship Gold (silver). That's some decent hardware for an international career plus being on teams that break slumps like Canada's first team to win gold in 50 years in the Olympics and first team in 33 years to win a world championship are nice to say as well.



Alfredsson also had way better linemates/team around in his playoff stints. Guys like Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Heatley, Yashin to name a few. Kariya saw only three playoffs with the Ducks. 1 with Selanne where he was fantastic, 1 where he got hurt I believe and finally on a team that rode a goalie in with no real true talent to play with. Alfie had 12 straight years of playoffs on a team that was a legit contender so of course his playoffs numbers would look better.

Now this is my last post here and I will "leave you guys alone".

Whatever you say man. It's HF boards after all. You're going to get your haters now and then.

Cutting it short? Off the floor and on the board!!!! Kariyas number needs to be retired enough said. He actually made this damn franchise relevant in the 90s even when it was question marked.

Haters are always going to hate don't worry about it. Welcome to the ducks forum

 

[190Octane]

Only two numbers should be retired, 8 and 35.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Whatever you say man. It's HF boards after all. You're going to get your haters now and then.

Cutting it short? Off the floor and on the board!!!! Kariyas number needs to be retired enough said. He actually made this damn franchise relevant in the 90s even when it was question marked.

Haters are always going to hate don't worry about it. Welcome to the ducks forum

We weren't relevant in the 90s...

Only two numbers should be retired, 8 and 35.

I agree.

 

[Ducksgo*]

We weren't relevant in the 90s...



I agree.

How were we not relevant in the 90s? Paul Kariya made this franchise actually worth talking about regarding NHL hockey. If it wasn't for him then yes you're right we weren't "relevant" in the 90s

 

[snarktacular]

Off the floor and on the board is so overrated. Kariya's best playoff moment is 1997 game 6 OT.