Should the Canucks trade Tanev?

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vancityluongo

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One doesn't preclude the other.

I usually agree with you about most things but you're way off-base here. The Canucks should absolutely move Tanev to the highest bidder before his NTC kicks in.

The kind of veteran D you describe we can take as cap dumps - Eg, Garrison in TB, Fayne in EDM, Hamhuis in DAL, Emelin in MTL, etc. There are buy-low FAs available like Hainsey, Franson, Liles.

I'd agree keeping Edler for now makes the most sense. Him and Stecher worked well together, and I doubt we'd get much of a bidding war going with his unwillingness to leave and NTC.

You're starting to convince me to switch sides here.

Tanev is the best player on this team, but if you can acquire a dynamic scoring forward who would instantly become the best player on this team in return, that's worth looking into. The market for middle defenseman - the guys mentioned above - is better than the middle market for forwards. As we've found out for years, it's really hard to acquire strong goal scoring forwards. One look at the UFA class this year tells you as much.

From an asset management perspective, I'd be open to fielding offers on Tanev. Of course, the huge condition is that it has to be done the right way. Jim Benning of course is 100% incapable of that.
 

DL44

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How is an one-dimensional player good at many things?

Being good at everything in your defensive zone isn't one-dimensional.

Bartkowski was one-dimensional :laugh:

Sorry.. Tanev is a one way dman.
He's anything but a 2-way player.
He's a defensive dman.
Is that better?

Semantics. The point is clear. He's a black hole.

*now waits patiently for a /60 stat to be used to argue otherwise
 

Havre

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Jul 24, 2011
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Sorry.. Tanev is a one way dman.
He's anything but a 2-way player.
He's a defensive dman.
Is that better?

Semantics. The point is clear. He's a black hole.

*now waits patiently for a /60 stat to be used to argue otherwise

Not really semantics - unless the only way you evaluate hockey players are good offensively and good defensively. As if Chara and Lidström are exactly the same - two dimensional players.

Wouldn´t completely disagree with calling Tanev one way.
 

Street Hawk

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I believe his NTC kicks in July 1st this year. That would be why the Trade Tanev conversation is burning up the radio.

And in typical lazy radio land, they neglect the details of his NTC. He can submit a list of 8 teams he cannot be traded to. Whoa...... That's so restrictive.....

I'd imagine that list would include Vegas, Arizona, Brooklyn. Expansion team and a pair of teams with arena situations. Who are the other five teams that he wouldn't want to go to?

Radio people are so lazy.... Never get into the details.

If there is a great deal on the table for tanev, you have to take it.

As for Edler, it will be another year before he waives. He knows he won't get an extension from Vancouver. But, he likely doesn't want to have to move again once he leaves vancouver. He won't get a full ntc on his next deal u less the salary is very favorable to the new team. Maybe first year full ntc and the remainder will have a list of 8-10 teams he can be dealt to.
 

y2kcanucks

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MS is 100% right

Stecher and Juolevi with Tanev as a mentor is amazing.

also

Tanev is one of the only home grown free agent defenders top become a top 2. and hes a fan favourite. remember his first goal this season. team ignited.

dont trade tanev

we will bomb next year anyway for another lottery shot

Reading this confirms my opinion that we should trade Tanev.
 

jeromemorrow

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I'd prefer to trade Edler if you had to force me to trade one of the two. But NTC is in the way.. still.. it shouldn't stop them from exploring that option.

Although losing Tryamkin + Edler will make things a bit untenable on our back end... but at the same time.. if we could recoup another 1st rder (Cal Foote) + a prospect, it's a deal we should make...

Michael Stone and Cody Franson are UFA options as a RHS dman. But then again we don't know what their contract demands are... PLUS you run the risk of Jim Benning offering out a contract to a UFA as well if u trade Tanev.. so that's the drawback.
 

MS

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One doesn't preclude the other.

I usually agree with you about most things but you're way off-base here. The Canucks should absolutely move Tanev to the highest bidder before his NTC kicks in.

The kind of veteran D you describe we can take as cap dumps - Eg, Garrison in TB, Fayne in EDM, Hamhuis in DAL, Emelin in MTL, etc. There are buy-low FAs available like Hainsey, Franson, Liles.

I'd agree keeping Edler for now makes the most sense. Him and Stecher worked well together, and I doubt we'd get much of a bidding war going with his unwillingness to leave and NTC.

He can list 8 teams he won't accept a trade to. The NTC isn't an issue.

And your list of defenders is just a list of bad players that happen to be veterans. Playing a young player with a bad 'veteran' 3rd pairing guy accomplishes nothing. The point is that Tanev and Edler are actually good and can carry a young player in heavy minutes - as Edler did with Stecher this year, and also what Tanev did with Sbisa although Sbisa isn't exactly young.


I see MS's point, but I also think that with Green coming in (plus Lidster and Willie D leaving) Tanev might have a huge bounce-back year and actually improve our team too much in what should be a tank season. I don't want him bailing out Jim Benning's trash for 30 mins a night. I want this team to suck.

Much like the Leafs gained by trading Kessel in the sense that subtracting his 30+ goals helped them snag Matthews, I think the Canucks should trade their only elite d-man to help them draft Rasmus Dahlin this time next year.

We're going to be a bottom-3 or bottom-5 team no matter what. Our roster is brutal.

__________

There should be ZERO rush to trade Tanev. He's on a great contract for several more years and his value will only go up if he can stay healthy. And again, IMO he provides much more utility to the team here than he does as a trade chip.

Especially with the fact that he's probably undervalued around the league and double especially with an idiot like Benning making the trade.
 

Burke's Evil Spirit

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And your list of defenders is just a list of bad players that happen to be veterans.

You've really changed your tune on Hamhuis ;) There are some bad defenders there but Hamhuis, Hainsey, Franson are all legit top-4 guys and the others can really stabilize a bottom pairing.
 

MS

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You've really changed your tune on Hamhuis ;) There are some bad defenders there but Hamhuis, Hainsey, Franson are all legit top-4 guys and the others can really stabilize a bottom pairing.

Hamhuis maybe has one more year where that's the case. Same for Hainsey, and neither are remotely at the level of Tanev or Edler. The rest are not legit top-4 defenders.
 

jeromemorrow

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Ron Hainsey is literally the #1 defenseman of the team that is throttling the Washington Capitals right now.
I am aware.. but no expert or analyst could've told you that Hainsey would be doing what he's doing right now when the trade happened.

Jim Rutherford for some reason has a god touch in finding gems... Kessel... Bonino... Hainsey..

The series is not over until it's over though... but yeah PIT looking real good at the moment.
 

opendoor

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Getting a legitimate top 4 UFA to come to this dumpster fire is a pretty tall order. There are usually very few guys like that every offseason and they will have far better options than to play for the Canucks. More likely you have to give out a bad contract that you'll regret for a flawed player like Calgary did with Wideman.

That's not to say that the Canucks shouldn't explore trading guys who'll be out of the picture by the time this team is relevant again, but people need to be honest about what that'll look like. The Canucks aren't likely going to be able to attract a guy who can play 20+ minutes and anchor a pairing. And frankly, I'm not even sure Benning would know a guy like that if he saw him anyway, judging by his pro-level defense targets of Sbisa, Gudbranson, Bartkowski, Pedan, etc. A more realistic scenario if they moved Tanev would be Gudbranson taking over that role.

Personally I'd hold off on Tanev for a year or so. His NTC is so loosely restrictive that it's basically irrelevant and I don't know that his value will drop at all in the interim.
 

y2kcanucks

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I am aware.. but no expert or analyst could've told you that Hainsey would be doing what he's doing right now when the trade happened.

Jim Rutherford for some reason has a god touch in finding gems... Kessel... Bonino... Hainsey..

The series is not over until it's over though... but yeah PIT looking real good at the moment.

So based on your comment above does that make Pittsburgh worse than a pretender? Or was your comment wrong?
 

y2kcanucks

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Getting a legitimate top 4 UFA to come to this dumpster fire is a pretty tall order. There are usually very few guys like that every offseason and they will have far better options than to play for the Canucks. More likely you have to give out a bad contract that you'll regret for a flawed player like Calgary did with Wideman.

That's not to say that the Canucks shouldn't explore trading guys who'll be out of the picture by the time this team is relevant again, but people need to be honest about what that'll look like. The Canucks aren't likely going to be able to attract a guy who can play 20+ minutes and anchor a pairing. And frankly, I'm not even sure Benning would know a guy like that if he saw him anyway, judging by his pro-level defense targets of Sbisa, Gudbranson, Bartkowski, Pedan, etc. A more realistic scenario if they moved Tanev would be Gudbranson taking over that role.

Personally I'd hold off on Tanev for a year or so. His NTC is so loosely restrictive that it's basically irrelevant and I don't know that his value will drop at all in the interim.

A Tanev-less defense means this team's back end is as bad as Colorado's was last season. I'm okay with that.
 

racerjoe

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The entire process is hard to pull off, and I probably wouldn't trust Benning to pull it of, but it is 100% the type of move we should be looking at. The hard part isn't just the trade, but correctly back filling for Tanev, and we don't need to completely replace him, just have good guys there to help.
 

jeromemorrow

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Tanev for mid-1st (Foote) + prospect

NHL:
Edler - Gudbranson
Hutton - Stecher
Sbisa - Franson (?)
Pedan?

AHL:
Brisebois - Subban
McEneney - Chatfield

Prospects:
Juolevi - Foote


Man... our d is not a strong point as much as I want to claim that our defence was a "positive" this past year...

I'm totally fine also with not signing any expensive UFAs... so we can try and actually have our Comets (Pedan + Subban) get minutes with the big team... too often than not in past years, we have had too many vets clogging up spots and not allow vertical ascension from our farm...
 

y2kcanucks

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Tanev for mid-1st (Foote) + prospect

NHL:
Edler - Gudbranson
Hutton - Stecher
Sbisa - Franson (?)
Pedan?

AHL:
Brisebois - Subban
McEneney - Chatfield

Prospects:
Juolevi - Foote


Man... our d is not a strong point as much as I want to claim that our defence was a "positive" this past year...

I'm totally fine also with not signing any expensive UFAs... so we can try and actually have our Comets (Pedan + Subban) get minutes with the big team... too often than not in past years, we have had too many vets clogging up spots and not allow vertical ascension from our farm...

That better be an elite prospect, otherwise that's an awful deal for Tanev.

I'd do the deal for a top 5 pick, or someone like Jonathan Drouin, but not a mid-1st round pick in a draft like this.

Also Gudbranson should still be nowhere near our top 4. If we sign Franson then he along with Stecher should be on the right side in our top 4.
 

Shareefruck

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It's really tricky.

The fact that Tryamkin is gone really changes things, IMO. With one of Edler or Tanev, supported by Tryamkin and Biega, you could still reasonably ice a defense that doesn't look like a complete ****-show and could at least learn reasonably good habits if you trade one of Edler or Tanev.

However, with Tryamkin gone, even though it would hurt like hell not to get good value for them during a rebuild, trading one of these guys would be a disaster if everything else remains untouched (just as trading both Edler and Tanev would be absolutely devastating and cripple the organization, IMO).

If the D core consists of Hutton, Stecher, Sbisa, Gudbranson, with only Edler to hold it all together, we're doomed for developmental hell, IMO. Especially if Gudbranson acts like and is treated like that veteran presence who helps young guys out *shudder*

Ideally, if you were planning to trade Tanev to get good value back (a smart move, IMO), we should have never let Hamhuis go. It would have been a perfect scenario to allow Edler and Hamhuis to mentor the young guys, get a major blue-chipper with Tanev, and then by the time Hamhuis retires, Juolevi should be somewhat solid. Since we can't do that now, I would only entertain the notion of trading Tanev if you could sign a fairly reliable veteran in place of him. That's pretty hard to find without giving something up and starting back from square one, though.
 

M2Beezy

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Tanev for mid-1st (Foote) + prospect

NHL:
Edler - Gudbranson
Hutton - Stecher
Sbisa - Franson (?)
Pedan?

AHL:
Brisebois - Subban
McEneney - Chatfield

Prospects:
Juolevi - Foote


Man... our d is not a strong point as much as I want to claim that our defence was a "positive" this past year...

I'm totally fine also with not signing any expensive UFAs... so we can try and actually have our Comets (Pedan + Subban) get minutes with the big team... too often than not in past years, we have had too many vets clogging up spots and not allow vertical ascension from our farm...

I think Las Vegas will take Sbisa
 

LeftCoast

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Aug 1, 2006
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I'm open to the idea of trading Tanev, but the return would have to be fantastic because our D would be an absolute **** show without him. Tanev is 27 years old and at the peak of his career. He is under appreciated by many fans, but I think GMs recognize his value. Injuries excepted, he can probably be expected to play at this level for another 3 to 5 years. In 3 years, Stecher will be 26, Juolevi will be 22, Hutton will be 27 (and 25 year old Tyramkin's KHL contract will be completed) and 30 year old Chris Tanev will have 1 year remaining on his contract before becoming a UFA. There is a lot of value in having a calm, steady, reliable veteran like Tanev to stablize the D while our young defenders develop.

That said, if we can get a really good return in trading Tanev now, there are other ways to stabilize the D. We could dip into the free agent market for a veteran D - this isn't the best year to do so, guys like Karl Alzner, Brendan Smith, Michael Del Zotto, Michael Stone, Cody Franson etc. could be available this year. None of these are going to replace Tanev in terms of their defensive play, any would provide veteran depth to protect Stecher, Juolevi and Hutton from over exposure and to ensure that when injuries happen our D doesn't resemble Utica's. The risk with chasing UFAs, particularly those under 30 years of age, is that a) you probably have to over pay (and over term) them and b) this summer Las Vegas is going to be active in the UFA market for exactly these types of players.

Potential targets in a Tanev trade would be:

Jonathan Drouin - last year I was pretty down on Drouin. He is clearly a bit of a Diva and is likey to be a challenge to deal with any time his contract is up for extension or any time he feels he is not being utilized the way he believes he should. That said, he certainly answered any questions about his ability to produce after being sent down to Syracuse last year. He is an elite talent. He is an RFA this summer and is likely to be looking for Taylor Hall type money. The relationship with Steve Yzermann in Tampa has been a bit rocky, and there is a good chance Tampa doesn't want to pay him top dollar. But is Tampa a good fit for Tanev? They have a lot invested in their d with Hedman ($7.8M x 8 years), Garrison ($4.6M x 1 year), Stralman ($4.5M x 2 years) and Coburn ($3.7M x 2 years). And if we took Garrison back as a cap dump, how could we afford to sign Drouin ($5-6M?) and Horvat ($5M??). It would take some savvy Cap and contract movements that Benning and Co. have yet to demonstrate. But players like Drouin (age and skill set) are rarely available so it would be worth what ever machinations on the cap are needed.

Matt Duchene - Duschene is a totally "now" move, and we are probably not a "now" team. Does it make sense to trade a 27 year old top pairing, shutdown D, following one of his best seasons for a 26 year old top 6 forward coming off his worst season? Duchene's season has to be considered in the context of Colorado's season. His performance was poor, in part due to being on the worst team in the league, but Colorado's season was so poor in part due to Duchene's poor performance. This is sort of a trade where both teams would prefer someone younger coming back.

Gabriel Landskog - this is probably a better value because Landeskog is 2 years younger than Duchene and is signed for another 4 years versus 2. Coming off a disappointing season (18 goals, 33 points - Granlund like numbers) his lack of production is also both a result of and responsible for Colorado's epic poor season. Landeskog is a young power forward who could be an answer to the likes of Milan Lucic, Matt Tkachuk, Lawson Crouse, Blake Wheeler, Ryan Getzlaff, Joe Thornton, etc. in the Western Conference. But if Landeskog is on the market (as he was at the TDL) the ask will very high (as it was at the TDL).

Phily has some interesting assets and is going to get another good young player in Nico Hischier or Nolan Patrick this year (did I mention how much this pisses me off?). The Flyers have a good young defense with players like Provorov, Gostisbehere, Morin, Sanheim and Hagg - much better than the Canucks young D core. It's their veterans that suck. Andrew MacDonald is well past his best before date but has 3 years at $5M remaining on his contract. Michael Del Zotto (UFA) has been slowed by injuries and Nick Schultz has spend more time in the press box than on the ice. Would Phily give up one of its young D for a mid-career shutdown defender?
 
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