News Article: Should The Bruins Retire Tim Thomas’ Number?

[BigGoalBrad]

I love Tim Thomas.

We wouldn't have a Cup without him.

He doesn't deserve to have his number retired. Wasn't here long enough and didn't dominate for long enough. He, rightfully, should have a place of honor in Bruins history but his number should not be retired.

A 5 year run as the best goalie in the NHL.

You can twist the argument for longevity in his favor as well remember he did play 4 games for us 2 years prior to the lockout in 2002-2003. He was a member of the organization for a full decade 2002-2012 losing a year to the lockout of course.

I'm changing my mind and saying put him up there. Might convince Rask to not retire until he gets a Cup.

 

[Spooner st]

My first instinct is to say no, only because I personally feel that hanging a number is the ultimate honor for a player by the team, and for that you have to be the best of the best for said franchise. Thomas did drag them to a cup with a crazy run, so I get the case that can be made.

I think the real question here is would Thomas want that and would he show up if they did? I think its easy to look at the cup win and forget about the way the team and Thomas felt about each other the last few years here. They basically gave his job to Rask when Thomas was hurt, then tried to force him to waive his NTC, which he refused, and he stripped his pads, gloves, and mask of any Bruins colors and logos over it. And that doesn't even bring into play the white house visit crap, and surprise retirement, no show he did before ultimately being traded.

Way too much baggage, way too polarizing a figure. Doubt he'd be even open to it. So back to a hard no.

Like Cartman would say; you're breaking my *****.

 

[ON3M4N]

Identical with DK Marchand a little better 646 points in 751 games and he was just as good first few seasons before the stats showed up.

DK- 686 points in 911 games

Cashman- 793 in 1027 games

Cashman should be up there once O Rielly and Middleton lowered the bar a bit. Before 27 was retired it was unbelievably hard to get in the rafters. Cashman never played for another NHL franchise either which absolutely works for him. The only thing I'd say is retiring 12 is a little different than retiring 63.

Granted I'm younger but I don't associate the number 12 with Wayne Cashman. I see a 63 and I immediately think of Brad Marchand and it doesn't have to be hockey related. How can you let someone else wear 63 for the Bruins?

That's just it, for an older person they may associate that number with Cashman. That's why its tough to use the "associate number to name" point. The reason you immediately think of Marchand when you see #63 is because A, he's currently wearing it and has for 10 years, and B, he's 1 of only 3 players to wear it for the Bruins. The other two players wore it for a combined 40 games, so really Marchand is the only player to ever really wear it lol.

It not my choice to let someone else where #63, that's the teams choice. Again for me having your # retired is one of the highest honors a player can receive and its a sign that you are the gold standard of what the organization is about. When all is said and done, I think Marchand could have a case for having his # retired and I said as much in post earlier in the thread. I think the one thing that may work against him are those moments when he's gone over the line. If he keep playing the way he is, he should have the numbers to have his number retired, but as I pointed out, Cashman is a guy with great numbers and he is still not in the rafters.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

That's just it, for an older person they may associate that number with Cashman. That's why its tough to use the "associate number to name" point. The reason you immediately think of Marchand when you see #63 is because A, he's currently wearing it and has for 10 years, and B, he's 1 of only 3 players to wear it for the Bruins. The other two players wore it for a combined 40 games, so really Marchand is the only player to ever really wear it lol.

It not my choice to let someone else where #63, that's the teams choice. Again for me having your # retired is one of the highest honors a player can receive and its a sign that you are the gold standard of what the organization is about. When all is said and done, I think Marchand could have a case for having his # retired and I said as much in post earlier in the thread. I think the one thing that may work against him are those moments when he's gone over the line. If he keep playing the way he is, he should have the numbers to have his number retired, but as I pointed out, Cashman is a guy with great numbers and he is still not in the rafters.

Sure. If he buries that PP one timer and we win G7 with him leading the playoffs in scoring and theres no line change gaff hes as secure as Bergy and Chara.

But his career is 5 years of being a Tiger Williams best agitator in the league with a lot of skill 5 years of being an absolute super star as good as any of the top wingers. He's on track.

DK needs one more good playoffs. Steady point production after Bergeron got the far better linemates for the second half of his career and playoff stats has him up there even if the stats aren't a slam dunk.

 

[Number8]

I'll go against the grain and say yes.

What if he played 5 more years with stellar numbers but didn't have a Cup? He would have the gaudy numbers some seem to want, but without the most coveted prize.

So what's more important - padding one's individual stats through longevity (in rather meaningless regular season games), or winning the Cup, which had eluded Boston for nearly 4 decades?

And as Thomas' Conn Smythe attests, that Cup win doesn't happen without him.

Plus I think Thomas' longevity gets underestimated. He was a 4 time All Star, won two Vezinas, a Jennings, in addition to a Conne Smythe and Stanley Cup. Mix in his rags-to-riches journeyman story, and I believe he's earned it.

I've been fans of players who put up HOF numbers but never won the big one - Craig Biggio, Jeff Bagwell. And though he has a Cup as a backup, Rask has had two chances in the Finals. Because Thomas won the Cup, that puts him over the top.

No disrespect to TT30, but I'd say no. Longevity is just not there.

And as far as the bolded above? This is true. However, it's also true that without Michael Ryder (on both ends of the ice) Boston doesn't get through Montreal and Timmy watches the Conn Smyth go to someone else on his TV set. Timmy was awesome and deserved the CS, no doubt. However, it's a team sport so winning the Conn Smythe doesn't then convert into a number retirement because the Cup wouldn't have been won without him. Bunch of players had HUGE impacts on that Cup win and you could say it "wouldn't have happened without him": Thomas, Ryder, Horton, etc.

 

[ON3M4N]

Sure. If he buries that PP one timer and we win G7 with him leading the playoffs in scoring and theres no line change gaff hes as secure as Bergy and Chara.

But his career is 5 years of being a Tiger Williams best agitator in the league with a lot of skill 5 years of being an absolute super star as good as any of the top wingers. He's on track.

DK needs one more good playoffs. Steady point production after Bergeron got the far better linemates for the second half of his career and playoff stats has him up there even if the stats aren't a slam dunk.

Again I'm not disagreeing on Marchand, its the questionable plays that have led to suspensions that I think could hold him back. Now whether that's right or wrong is a different debate.

 

[JRull86]

I go with no. Number retirements are for the one's where you shouldn't even have to ask. He's still an immortal in Bruins history though so who really cares.

Agree with this take.

Bergeron and Chara are the only ones out of this 06-present group that deserve it. Maybe Marchand gets there, but I dunno.

Thomas was a key part of the Bruins revival, but at the end of the day he just didn't do it for long enough. Doesn't help that he shares a number with Cheevers.

 

[LSCII]

Like Cartman would say; you're breaking my *****.

Hurts to say too. I love Thomas and was on his bandwagon very early. Also argued here many times that he could get the team to a cup win, and was so happy when he did putting that dumb argument to rest. But with his short run here and the way things ended, I just don't see why they'd do it nor why he'd be open to it. Maybe in 5-10 years that will change.

 

[ON3M4N]

No disrespect to TT30, but I'd say no. Longevity is just not there.

And as far as the bolded above? This is true. However, it's also true that without Michael Ryder (on both ends of the ice) Boston doesn't get through Montreal and Timmy watches the Conn Smyth go to someone else on his TV set. Timmy was awesome and deserved the CS, no doubt. However, it's a team sport so winning the Conn Smythe doesn't then convert into a number retirement because the Cup wouldn't have been won without him. Bunch of players had HUGE impacts on that Cup win and you could say it "wouldn't have happened without him": Thomas, Ryder, Horton, etc.

This 100%

Maybe slightly off-topic, but the one thing that I always found interesting was people talk about all the amazing saves Thomas had. The interesting part is he made routine saves look difficult because he positioning was not always great i.e. at times he made things look harder than they were. On the flip side Rask is a positionally sound goalie and because of it makes difficult saves look routine. Thomas had a fantastic run when they won the cup, no question, but he wasn't the sole reason the Bruins won the cup like many make it seem.

Thomas 2011 - 1.98 GAA / .940 SV% / 4SO
Rask 2013 - 1.88 GAA / .940 SV% / 3SO

^One guy is blamed by many for not winning a cup in 2013 and the other is considered the reason the team won it all in 2011

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Identical with DK Marchand a little better 646 points in 751 games and he was just as good first few seasons before the stats showed up.

DK- 686 points in 911 games

Cashman- 793 in 1027 games

Cashman should be up there once O Rielly and Middleton lowered the bar a bit. Before 27 was retired it was unbelievably hard to get in the rafters. Cashman never played for another NHL franchise either which absolutely works for him. The only thing I'd say is retiring 12 is a little different than retiring 63.

Granted I'm younger but I don't associate the number 12 with Wayne Cashman. I see a 63 and I immediately think of Brad Marchand and it doesn't have to be hockey related. How can you let someone else wear 63 for the Bruins?

Who's 27?

 

[Sheppy]

Yeah, I'm 60-40 on No.

Just the longevity thing, mostly.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Who's 27?

Im an idiot 24.

Glen Murray might be up there if we didn't trade him the first time around lol. 337 goals in 1000 games. Maybe he gets to 400 if he plays his career here with Oates/Allison/Thornton feeding him.

 

[Spooner st]

To me it's an absolute yes, for different reasons.

First 2 cups in my life time I was 9 and 11 years old. I discovered hockey i was 8. No ice hockey where i came from. Thomas was the one that made the dream come true. he was also the one, people didn't take seriously and made fun of. Part of he's own fan base wanted Rask to have a regular starting rotation even though Thomas was dominating the games he was playing in.

Against all odds Thomas did the impossible, and became an absolute winner in a unique situation. That to me it's the American dream. Worthy of a jersey in the rafters, as a reminder for everyone to see.

 

[Therick67]

This team needs a ring of honor, can't retire every number - but you can recognize guys in other ways...

 

[Sheppy]

This 100%

Maybe slightly off-topic, but the one thing that I always found interesting was people talk about all the amazing saves Thomas had. The interesting part is he made routine saves look difficult because he positioning was not always great i.e. at times he made things look harder than they were. On the flip side Rask is a positionally sound goalie and because of it makes difficult saves look routine. Thomas had a fantastic run when they won the cup, no question, but he wasn't the sole reason the Bruins won the cup like many make it seem.

Thomas 2011 - 1.98 GAA / .940 SV% / 4SO
Rask 2013 - 1.88 GAA / .940 SV% / 3SO

^One guy is blamed by many for not winning a cup in 2013 and the other is considered the reason the team won it all in 2011

Pretty solid take here, honestly. What Rask did in the Pittsburgh series was flat out stupid goaltending.

 

[SPV]

I like Thomas, and I'm thankful to him for the 2011 Cup, for which he was exceptional. But absolutely not on number retirement.

 

[Spooner st]

Hurts to say too. I love Thomas and was on his bandwagon very early. Also argued here many times that he could get the team to a cup win, and was so happy when he did putting that dumb argument to rest. But with his short run here and the way things ended, I just don't see why they'd do it nor why he'd be open to it. Maybe in 5-10 years that will change.

Agreed, they wouldn't do it now, no question about it. You have a good point here, if we don't get another cup (god forbid) in the next 5 to 10 years, they might change their mind.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Yeah, I'm 60-40 on No.

Just the longevity thing, mostly.

But go back to when he got here. Hes the chronology:


He was 28 when he got a cup of coffee 02/03 and we still opted for Sheilds/Grahame/Hackett/Raycroft.

The next year when we were a 1 seed if he got the backup job instead of Felix Potvin he probably becomes the playoff starter its not like Raycroft was good that year he was OK he just had age working for him as folks thought he was on the upswing.

Lockout

AHL>Starter for worst team in the NHL

Starter worst team in the NHL

5 years best goalie in the NHL.

 

[ON3M4N]

But go back to when he got here. Hes the chronology:


He was 28 when he got a cup of coffee 02/03 and we still opted for Sheilds/Grahame/Hackett/Raycroft.

The next year when we were a 1 seed if he got the backup job instead of Felix Potvin he probably becomes the playoff starter its not like Raycroft was good that year he was OK he just had age working for him as folks thought he was on the upswing.

Lockout

AHL>Starter for worst team in the NHL

Starter worst team in the NHL

5 years best goalie in the NHL.

What? Raycroft won the Calder in 2003-2004 and finished 5th in Vezina voting. How does he manage that if was not that good?

 

[ON3M4N]

This team needs a ring of honor, can't retire every number - but you can recognize guys in other ways...

I think a ring of honor would be fantastic thing for the Bruins to have.

 

[Over the volcano]

100% yes

Put on the greatest performance of any goaltender I’ve seen in my lifetime and brought the Bruins the Cup for the first time in almost 40 years.

Hoist that thing and have a party

 

[McGarnagle]

That is a lame reason, because Tuukka doesn't deserve it in your opinion, Timmy doesn't deserve consideration?

What are you talking about? That is not my opinon at all. Tuukka deserves it equally because of his stats - best goaltender in modern Bruins history over the long run (while Timmy had the most dominant peak).

 

[304]

No for me.

That 2011 run was special, but retiring a number should be reserved for the most revered players of all time in an organization. Thomas just wasn't around long enough and wasn't "elite" for long enough. There are guys up in the rafters who have played 20+ seasons with the Bruins and were considered the amongst the best in the game during a majority of their careers.

I also believe that a retired number is a step above a Hall of Fame induction (for a franchise that's been around as long as the Bruins). Do we think he's worth of a HHOF induction? That may be a better argument.

 

[Ladyfan]

Probably not BUT if they do I will stand and cheer for Timmy !...that is if I ever get to the Garden again...

 

[Fenway]

The Bruins ( mainly because of Harry Sinden ) simply do not honor former goalies.

There are at least three goalies in Bruins history who SHOULD be honored before Tim Thomas

Tiny Thompson - Cup winner 1929

Frank Brimsek - Cup Winner 1939, 1941

Gerry Cheevers - Cup winner 1970, 1972