Should refs be allowed to give penalties because a coach or player yelled at them?

[CanadiensforLife]

Yep, if players or coaches lose their composure they hurt their chances of winning. I don't give a **** about the refs' feelings, they're not more important than the game. The players need to decide the final score, not the referees.

I disagree. Refs are the authority on the ice and enforce rules, therefore there needs to be a line of conduct and respect towards the refs or it becomes a free for all. Like a poster said earlier, it would become a farce league like the WWE where refs can be abused.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I find hockey refs already take way more abuse than basically any other sport. The amount of chirping and back talking after every call is generally not tolerated in other sports, it results in much stiffer penalties so does not happen. Guys get ejected way faster, and for less in sports like soccer and baseball. Proposing that players and coaches have even more leeway to mouth off at them is really beyond the bounds of acceptable sportsmanship, and general civilized behaviour.

 

[nyr2k2]

Here's what I don't understand. Every fan of every league thinks their referees are terrible. Everyone wishes the referees would be better. I go and talk about football on a football board, and the refs ****ing suck. The NBA fans seem to be convinced that their referees throw games. MLB fans regularly piss and moan about the umpires. Soccer fans have been known to physically assault (or worse) their officials. They're all unequivocally terrible at their jobs, according to fans.

Now, at what point do we realize that the professional referees--who do the job in some cases for decades and who undergo intense training and regular review and evaluation from their respective leagues--are doing as good of a job as is humanly possible? If you think that the best of the best are objectively bad, maybe you need to reevaluate your standards and expectations.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Here's what I don't understand. Every fan of every league thinks their referees are terrible. Everyone wishes the referees would be better. I go and talk about football on a football board, and the refs ****ing suck. The NBA fans seem to be convinced that their referees throw games. MLB fans regularly piss and moan about the umpires. Soccer fans have been known to physically assault (or worse) their officials. They're all unequivocally terrible at their jobs, according to fans.

Now, at what point do we realize that the professional referees--who do the job in some cases for decades and who undergo intense training and regular review and evaluation from their respective leagues--are doing as good of a job as is humanly possible? If you think that the best of the best are objectively bad, maybe you need to reevaluate your standards and expectations.

Well said.

Maybe we just need to realize that it's a freaking hard job to do, and that human beings aren't perfect?

 

[ThirdManIn]

I suppose it depends on what is said. If a player or a coach is simply shouting because they are mad about a call, but they never make it vulgar or personal, fine. Let them vent. It's a physical game played in a loud arena. Voices are going to get raised often.

But if they cross the line into making it unnecessarily obscene and/or personal, the player or coach needs to grow up a bit and they deserve the penalty.

Officials already have a high pressure job. They don't need the added pressure of being able to be verbally abused by players or coaches.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Yep, if players or coaches lose their composure they hurt their chances of winning. I don't give a **** about the refs' feelings, they're not more important than the game. The players need to decide the final score, not the referees.

Nobody said they were. But you can't play the game without "refs". And with "refs" being abused and not being able to do something about it, you will lose quality refs.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Nobody said they were. But you can't play the game without "refs". And with "refs" being abused and not being able to do something about it, you will lose quality refs.

Many officials give the air of being bigger than the sport.

And the people here implying they must be respected at all costs for fear of losing the officials are indeed saying exactly that.

There needs to be a better system of checks and balances. I doubt officials are so much as fined for awful efforts but they should be. If they can't improve then get someone better. There are officials with awful reputations of incompetence; why are they still around? In the real world you lose your job for incompetence.

 

[ThirdManIn]

Many officials give the air of being bigger than the sport.

And the people here implying they must be respected at all costs for fear of losing the officials are indeed saying exactly that.

There needs to be a better system of checks and balances. I doubt officials are so much as fined for awful efforts but they should be. If they can't improve then get someone better. There are officials with awful reputations of incompetence; why are they still around? In the real world you lose your job for incompetence.

In the real world you also lose your job when you start shouting at co-workers in front of fellow employees and paying customers, especially when those co-workers are supervisors which referees effectively are. Officials make bad calls. They are also reviewed after each game, and have to review videos of mistakes made (missed calls, bad calls, etc). Even high school and low-level college football officials do this, something I know since I work with one and watch the videos with him often. I'm not sure a better system of checks and balances is more needed than fans beginning to understand that so harshly judging someone else for their mistakes can become ridiculous considering we all have plenty of mistakes in our past and even more to come.

As I said above, if a player or a coach shouts at an official because of a bad call, fine. It happens. Tempers flare. As long as they keep it reasonable I have no problem with it, but when it crosses the line into actual verbal abuse they should get a penalty every time. Should the NHL make public its system of punishment for officials? Maybe. That could be an interesting debate. Should the NHL allow abuse of officials? Not at all.

 

[LuGBuG]

You can't have a free pass to just rip them but a Ref should understand and be able to take a ripping too. Seems like when they do a terrible job they just sweep it under the rug. Meanwhile coaches and players are held accountable. Like i said though a free pass to just rip them would go over the top and be bad for publicity.

 

[Eisen]

Many officials give the air of being bigger than the sport.

And the people here implying they must be respected at all costs for fear of losing the officials are indeed saying exactly that.

There needs to be a better system of checks and balances. I doubt officials are so much as fined for awful efforts but they should be. If they can't improve then get someone better. There are officials with awful reputations of incompetence; why are they still around? In the real world you lose your job for incompetence.

I have nothing against the league criticizing the refs and I am sure they just do that. Keep it behind closed doors to not make it public. But you can't let coaches and players abuse the ref. That destroys any credibility a ref has.

 

[Nsjohnson]

If you are looking for ref accountability, then don't look at the coaches. Coaches screaming **** in the heat of the game is not a solution for bad reffing. It's also not professional.

If you want to make the refs accountable for terrible calls then look to the league.

 

[nyr2k2]

Many officials give the air of being bigger than the sport.

And the people here implying they must be respected at all costs for fear of losing the officials are indeed saying exactly that.

There needs to be a better system of checks and balances. I doubt officials are so much as fined for awful efforts but they should be. If they can't improve then get someone better. There are officials with awful reputations of incompetence; why are they still around? In the real world you lose your job for incompetence.

Someone posted a pretty detailed account from Kerry Fraser a few pages back that covered some of the ways officials are held accountable and reviewed. People assume that officials aren't held accountable, but it's simply not true. It's just not public information.

The officials we see on the ice each night are truly the best-qualified and most-capable men for the job. If you think they're bad, then you have unrealistic expectations. They're human beings that make mistakes. No amount of training or professional accountability will change human nature.

The best players in the world have bad games and make mistakes. Again, it's human nature. If Sydney Crosby has a couple sub-par games, does anyone say that Pittsburgh needs to get a better player? Of course not. We seem to expect referees to be perfect when no one else involved in the sport is expected to be perfect, and that's just unreasonable.

 

[KCC]

Umps in baseball probably get the worst of it when a coach flips out. They go nose to nose with them, spitting on them, kicking dirt on them etc. Now tell me this. What if they weren't allowed to throw coaches and players out of the game? How would they get them to leave? There need to be rules in place and that's why every ref in every major sport can call a penalty/foul, throw someone out of a game etc.

 

[QuadDeuces]

I've officiated hockey at a high level. My line has always been simple: you can tell me my call sucked, or in blind or whatever... But if you hurl a personal insult, you're getting tagged.

 

[adsfan]

Unless you were there on the bench or ice when it happened, you have no idea the context of what was said. MAybe the ref warned him several times to drop an issue and he didn't. Maybe Nolan said something disrespectful. That's the ref's call to make. Not the fans...

You have to respect the refs, whether you like it or not. A lot of people seem to think that Ted Nolan has been discriminated against because he is an Indian (First Nations). He was the NHL Coach of the Year, got fired and wasn't hired as an NHL coach for 9 years. It doesn't look right to me.

No. Even though I don't have any training, I can read lips pretty well.
It doesn't work when somebody is really screaming, their mouth is too open.

Digger Phelps from Notre Dame basketball was one of the worst that I have ever seen in person. If I was a ref, he would have been tossed out of 50% of games. I don't like refs and I believe in giving people a say, but Digger was crazy bad with the language. Ditto for Earl Weaver in baseball.

I my 50 years of being a hockey fan, most refs don't like it when a coach complains about a tripping call against his guy one minute after the other team did the same thing and it didn't get called. Pro sports officiating has declined in the last 10 years or so. I think that there are more Tim Donaghys out there. Usually it is lack of training, getting behind the play or incompetence. Baseball umpires call strikes on pitches that are 6 inches outside or near the ankles. Are they tired or vindictive?

NFL crews have been bad this season. I follow the Packers and they have gotten screwed a few times this year. It happens to other NFL teams too, even with replay.
How about Suh stepping on Rodgers with both feet? No call and no suspension. There are 7 officials on the field, one of them is supposed to watch the QB!

 

[golfortennis]

Or it's because the players don't do what they're supposed to do when lining up for a faceoff. Get real.

There's times that what you say is correct, but have you ever noticed that when someone gets tossed out, the puck is dropped immediately when the new guy comes in?

One thing refs/umps always say is, "don't show me up." If that isn't thinking people are there to see them instead of the players, I don't know what is.

But whoever said look to the league is correct. Just like with Gary Bettman. If he wasn't doing what the owners wanted, he would be gone. For one reason or another, the powers that be seem to be ok with this atrocious officiating.

 

[Captain Bowie]

I've officiated hockey at a high level. My line has always been simple: you can tell me my call sucked, or in blind or whatever... But if you hurl a personal insult, you're getting tagged.

I both umped baseball and reffed football as a teenager. During both courses it was that simple. As soon as a coach or player says something about YOU, you have every right to penalize or toss.

I have no problem if a coach wants an explanation of a call, or even voices his displeasure. But if he's going on and on to the point that he is holding up the game, no problem with a penalty. Same with getting personal or vulgar.

 

[10coach*]

Yep, if players or coaches lose their composure they hurt their chances of winning. I don't give a **** about the refs' feelings, they're not more important than the game. The players need to decide the final score, not the referees.

We are human beings too.

 

[10coach*]

Well said.

Maybe we just need to realize that it's a freaking hard job to do, and that human beings aren't perfect?

Correct

 

[Based Anime Fan]

Refs can be the heels and Betman can be our McMahon. Maybe the league could hire Jim Ross to do the commentating.

League = Corporation

Teams = Ministry (Leafs and Canadiens are the Corporate Ministry)

Media = Nation of Domination

?

 

[Rebuilt]

The actual rule is the ref can call the coach out on swearing or any antagonizing action. He can kick the coach out of the game if he feels like it.

The NHL refs have consistently given coaches and players a VERY long leash . Far more than any other pro sport. Hockey refs explain things to captains and coaches and take all kinds of abuse.

The misconception is that the 'leash' is a rule. It isnt. Its a courtesy the refs give and then take away if you abuse it or they get pissed off enough.

 

[Based Anime Fan]

I'd really recommend you all read Kerry Fraser's book, it's quite an insight to how officials think and why calls against coaches are made. I'd refer you to the story about Marc Crawford and his whacked result to a penalty.

 

[PTK]

Refs are far too lenient as it is. They get yelled at whether they are right or wrong. I'm no fan of the refs, but they take too much crap. It's embarassing.

Maybe we'd get better refs if it wasn't this way. Not many people want to do it.

 

[Siamese Dream]

Most NHL fans would probably consider this guy "arrogant" though

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Quite frankly, a ref that was not at least somewhat arrogant would never be an NHL official.

Some people on here just have no idea what officiating hockey is like. Period.