Should Provorov or Konency be in Juniors next year?

[dats81]

Laughton is a good defensive player. If I remember correctly, in a coaches poll he was voted best defensive forward and best at faceoffs. People seem to forget that he looked pretty good to start the year, but that his play has fallen off a bit. He also looked pretty good last year before the concussion issue. He can definitely bring his play back up and I think he has the ability to be a very solid 3C.

I think Laughton is trying to do too much instead of simplifying and focusing on the basics. He is all over the ice, flip-flopping around, falling down a lot and spending a lot of energy for nothing.

His faceoff stats are well below average. That doesn't mean he can't improve but Nick Cousins is better in that regard even though small sample size.

 

[phlocky]

O doubt Konecny is ready next year. Remember, Giroux played his full junior career and then half of a season in the AHL before he earned a spot in the NHL. Like some others have said it's a HUGE jump going from juniors straight to the NHL and I just don't see him as being "ready" as early as next October. Maybe he is but I doubt it.

Regarding Provo, I think we will have only one spot open on our blue line next year for one of Provo, Sanheim or Morin. It would be a HUGE mistake to take two of the 3 to the NHL next year as one of them or Ghost would have to play top 4 duties at even strenght and it's very unlikely any of them are ready for that kind of responsibility next year. Ghost is playing vott pairing at even strenght this year and he's showing he is not nearly ready DEFENSIVELY to take on top 4 duties right now. Let one of the 3 play bottom pairing minutes with Ghost at even strenght and get them some pp or pk minutes if they are ready. It's too early to tell which of the 3 will be ready next year but IMO it would be a HUGE mistake to rush any of the 3 just because you didn't want to send them back to juniors

 

[Hiesenberg]

I picked the wrong one. I think they both should be in the NHL

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

O doubt Konecny is ready next year. Remember, Giroux played his full junior career and then half of a season in the AHL before he earned a spot in the NHL. Like some others have said it's a HUGE jump going from juniors straight to the NHL and I just don't see him as being "ready" as early as next October. Maybe he is but I doubt it.

Regarding Provo, I think we will have only one spot open on our blue line next year for one of Provo, Sanheim or Morin. It would be a HUGE mistake to take two of the 3 to the NHL next year as one of them or Ghost would have to play top 4 duties at even strenght and it's very unlikely any of them are ready for that kind of responsibility next year. Ghost is playing vott pairing at even strenght this year and he's showing he is not nearly ready DEFENSIVELY to take on top 4 duties right now. Let one of the 3 play bottom pairing minutes with Ghost at even strenght and get them some pp or pk minutes if they are ready. It's too early to tell which of the 3 will be ready next year but IMO it would be a HUGE mistake to rush any of the 3 just because you didn't want to send them back to juniors

While I agree it is unlikely that the Flyers roll with two rookies and Ghost on the blue line next year, I'm not sure I would rule out Provolone getting top four defensive minutes and being able to handle them. Ghost can probably handle those minutes, as long as he is paired with a more defensively responsible partner. Sanheim and Morin I'm not sure how they would fare, but it seems to me that Provolone and Ghost should be near locks for next year, and I don't think they take Morin or Sanheim unless they are blown away. Not necessarily condemning either of them, just that having that much youth on the blue line, especially without a real stabilizing force out there like a Pronger-type HOF veteran to handle a lot of minutes while also helping the younger guys doesn't seem like a smart move.

I think MDZ, Ghost, AMAc, and Provolone will be here fore sure. One of Schultz or Streit is likely to be back, though I could see both or neither being here next season. Medvedev may or may not be back, and I don't believe they will sign anyone on the UFA market to play regular minutes, though I could see bringing in a veteran to be a 7th/spot starter. Sanheim and/or Morin could be here if they really wow to finish this year and come in guns blazing. If that happens, it may push Provolone out of the mix, but I'm not sure another year of Juniors does him any good.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

When you start to consider the medium term, the Flyers are sooner or later going to have a very young blue line. Anyway you slice, the Flyers have 3 guys who are probably looking to break into the NHL blue line over the next 2 years... plus Ghost. Sooner or later, we're going to have 2 rookies on the blue line concurrently, so probably best to just let their play determine when they are ready independent of one another.

 

[Striiker]

They whole "don't want to have x-amount of rookies on the roster" likely only applies if we're talking about the kind of rookies that need to be sheltered. Ghost doesn't, he's already on the top pairing, Provorov almost certainly won't, and Konecny would probably do fine with a third line RW role. Players like Leier, Cousins, Morin, Sanheim, etc are the kind of prospects you'd probably need to protect a bit to start and you probably wouldn't want multiple on the team at the same time.

 

[deadhead]

Provorov is so fundamentally sound in terms of positioning that he'll be a top 4 defenseman next year. There's no wasted motion, no panic, after a dozen games he'll look like he's a ten year veteran (my prediction). Guys like Ghost and Sanheim are more spectacular, but will need time to understand the defensive side of the game.

If you watched Konecny in camp versus say Gagner or any other wing other than Voracek, he was clearly the most dangerous winger out there - not strong enough last year to stick - but he has the "it" factor. I think with another year to get stronger he'll be impossible to cut this fall.

 

[phlocky]

Ghost is NOT on the top pairing 5v5, he's playing vott pairing even strenght and he needs to. His neutral zone play and offensive zone play is great, he reads that very well. However, in the defensive zone he still chases the play and is over matched physically. He needs someone like Timonen to show him how to play an effective "finesse" game without having to be physical or get pushed around in the defensive zone. He simply CAN'T go up against guys like Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos YET.

 

[bauer]

Provorov should 100% be with the team next season. he coulda played this year but there was a logjam on D. he's ready.

Konecny maybe. would like to see him up but lets see how he does in camp first. if he shines again it'll be hard to not keep him with the team.

 

[Appleyard]

Ghost is NOT on the top pairing 5v5, he's playing vott pairing even strenght and he needs to. His neutral zone play and offensive zone play is great, he reads that very well. However, in the defensive zone he still chases the play and is over matched physically. He needs someone like Timonen to show him how to play an effective "finesse" game without having to be physical or get pushed around in the defensive zone. He simply CAN'T go up against guys like Crosby, Malkin or Stamkos YET.

Tbf to Ghost though for the last ~10 games he has been getting 2nd pairing 5v5 minutes more often than not.

~15 minutes a game at 5v5 and 21 minutes a game overall in that time.

51.7% Oz starts and 50.5 CorsiQoC in that time too (which is 1st line quality actually). Which is not being shielded at all. And he has 50.9% CF% in that span.

His 5v5 production is 1.20/60 in that time as well, only slightly down from 1.33/60 on the season.

Ofc it is a small sample, but the last ten games he has played in a 2nd pairing role with actually above average minutes in regards to toughness of minutes, and is still doing well.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost led all defensemen in icetime last game, and he's been playing with Del Zotto who's been our #1 this year.

That's top pairing.

 

[Tripod]

Ghost led all defensemen in icetime last game, and he's been playing with Del Zotto who's been our #1 this year.

That's top pairing.

Yeah...anyone who has watched has seen him and MDZ together for abut now. They CERTAINLY are big our bottom pair.

So let's all just agree that Ghost is playing in the top 4 now...and not sheltered.

 

[EliteProvorovSanheim]

Provorov is so fundamentally sound in terms of positioning that he'll be a top 4 defenseman next year. There's no wasted motion, no panic, after a dozen games he'll look like he's a ten year veteran (my prediction). Guys like Ghost and Sanheim are more spectacular, but will need time to understand the defensive side of the game.

If you watched Konecny in camp versus say Gagner or any other wing other than Voracek, he was clearly the most dangerous winger out there - not strong enough last year to stick - but he has the "it" factor. I think with another year to get stronger he'll be impossible to cut this fall.

Deadhead... You Nailed it! Echoed my sentiments regarding Konecny in an earlier post. Agree 100% with your Provorov assessment as well. I do disagree with those that think Provy will be a TOP 4 Dman immediately but like Ghost by midseason he'll be playing top 4 minutes.

 

[EliteProvorovSanheim]

Tbf to Ghost though for the last ~10 games he has been getting 2nd pairing 5v5 minutes more often than not.

~15 minutes a game at 5v5 and 21 minutes a game overall in that time.

51.7% Oz starts and 50.5 CorsiQoC in that time too (which is 1st line quality actually). Which is not being shielded at all. And he has 50.9% CF% in that span.

His 5v5 production is 1.20/60 in that time as well, only slightly down from 1.33/60 on the season.

Ofc it is a small sample, but the last ten games he has played in a 2nd pairing role with actually above average minutes in regards to toughness of minutes, and is still doing well.

Appleyard... what's your take on whether or not Provy and Konecny will stick with the Flyers next year?

 

[Appleyard]

Appleyard... what's your take on whether or not Provy and Konecny will stick with the Flyers next year?

I think Provorov is close to a lock. He is far too good for the WHL in every area and he is physically mature already. He thinks the game better than 90% of NHL dmen already, can skate, is strong... if Hanifin could come in and play fine in the NHL this year Provorov can easily next year.

Konecny could... but he will have to have a great camp and force his way onto the team.

 

[Broad Street Elite]

Ghost led all defensemen in icetime last game, and he's been playing with Del Zotto who's been our #1 this year.

That's top pairing.

And again tonight.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think some of you guys are just gonna have to deal with it that Gostisbehere has some physical limitations when it's comes to the defensive side of the puck that's not going to go away.

He's never going to be someone who consistently wins those physical battles. It's going to be the opposite more times than not.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Gostisbehere's defense is always going to be predicated on speed, quickness, and getting the puck out of the zone with his exceptional puck skills. Beating guys to loose pucks, using his feet to beat the forecheck, closing gaps quickly, and doing his best to "win" battles in the neutral zone. I think he's shown all of those things thus far. He's a guy that will probably need a partner to do the dirty work, but I don't think he'll need to be sheltered too much in the future.

 

[Striiker]

It'll also help when he has a defensive partner that isn't a train wreck, which he certainly won't find on this current cluster**** of a defense.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah, Ghosts good defense comes from using his IQ to stop plays before they happen and then quickly turn it into offense. He will always get outmuscled on the boards but will be using his poke check to try and free the puck.

But that's also why I think Morin would be great with him. Morin can do the heavy lifting and grinding for the pairing.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Provorov should 100% be with the team next season. he coulda played this year but there was a logjam on D. he's ready.

Konecny maybe. would like to see him up but lets see how he does in camp first. if he shines again it'll be hard to not keep him with the team.

I agree with you on both counts. Travis is solid as a rock and I do not think another year in juniors will be needed, but lets see how camp goes. Provorov is on the team.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

They whole "don't want to have x-amount of rookies on the roster" likely only applies if we're talking about the kind of rookies that need to be sheltered. Ghost doesn't, he's already on the top pairing, Provorov almost certainly won't, and Konecny would probably do fine with a third line RW role. Players like Leier, Cousins, Morin, Sanheim, etc are the kind of prospects you'd probably need to protect a bit to start and you probably wouldn't want multiple on the team at the same time.

Ghost is also about to turn 23...Provorov just turned 19 last month. Konecnys still 18. They aren't comparable as far as age goes.

I think Provorov can play in the NHL. But Konecny could use another year of junior and probably a start in the A. I'd rather see Konecny playing big minutes in junior than 8 minutes in the NHL.

 

[phlocky]

Yeah...anyone who has watched has seen him and MDZ together for abut now. They CERTAINLY are big our bottom pair.

So let's all just agree that Ghost is playing in the top 4 now...and not sheltered.

I will give you that he has seen more and more time with MDZ at even strenght but even in last night's game there were a number of times when paired with him the Ducks put out their top line and if there was a quick stoppage and faceoff in our zone MDZ stayed on the ice but Ghost was taken off.

THAT shows to me that the coach still wants to "protect" him some (and the team for that matter).

 

[phlocky]

I think some of you guys are just gonna have to deal with it that Gostisbehere has some physical limitations when it's comes to the defensive side of the puck that's not going to go away.

He's never going to be someone who consistently wins those physical battles. It's going to be the opposite more times than not.

Yes but remember Timonen was never big and physical but he didn't get pushed around either. He could play against any forward in the league because he played a great finesse game. This is what Ghost needs to learn how to do. I'm not expecting miracles and expecting him to get it now or anything but this is the only way he'll be able to hold his own against top lines in the defensive zone. He's simply not there yet so it would be foolish to expect him to be able to handle that kind of responsibility

 

[phlocky]

Yeah, Ghosts good defense comes from using his IQ to stop plays before they happen and then quickly turn it into offense. He will always get outmuscled on the boards but will be using his poke check to try and free the puck.

But that's also why I think Morin would be great with him. Morin can do the heavy lifting and grinding for the pairing.

I agree, I've always felt that of the other top 3 dman prospects we have that Morin was the perfect fit to play with Ghost. Provo and Sanheim are going to be a great top pairing. I think they are going to remind people so much of Keith (Provo) and Seabrook (Sanheim).