Should Nonis be fired immediately

[Steve]

He gets a lot of heat and rightfully so, but the real issue here is our Scouting and development. Our last "good" player through the system was Kaberle from 1996!!

How our scouting gets off so easy is unreal.

Nonis should be gone or at least demoted and kept on as Asst GM (he does provide some value) or something but we need a Coach and GM who are on the same page and an entire new scouting staff - steal Anaheim and Detroit guys and I'm thrilled.

 

[CelticDruid]

What Gm has not made mistakes ? Nonis, will not be fired. Management is set in place and all the parts are now working together with the same vision.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Okie dokes. I am looking at this objectively.

Should Dave Nonis be fired.
In a normal, every day world, yes, he should. He has made some (a lot) of fireable offenses. But I think in this hierarchy of of President, General Manager, Director Of Whatever Mark Hunter Does, supported by the data Kyle Dubas & Company are doing, they created a hybrid kind of thing.

Well. if Shanahan is the final voice, to me, it's sort of like - he created a think tank. Everyone goes and sees what they want, bringing different kind of ideas and thoughts, they discuss it, and then he'll go, yeah this is/is not a bad idea. We see this sort of in Colorado. I would be hard pressed to say who exactly is running the show down there. (Is is Sakic? Is it Sherman (teehee) - I would bet dollars to doughnuts it's actually Roy).

Nonis - when not "in charge" actually does a good job with working out long deals etc. which is basically - what he's doing now. yes. Maybe he doesn't get fired because he plays well with others. (and also - something we rarely don't ever see - GMs fixing the messes they've created. usually they just get fired). If Nonis can somehow fix some of his blunders, why should he?

the only reason why i can think of is the coaching situation. if Nonis's situation is tenuous at best, then he should be fired right after Black Monday. (which will be the 12th/13th of April). ergo. Shanahan wants to have a new. "Sherman" or just allow the new GM to do his thing + hire his own coach.

if Nonis is secure, then he doesn't get fired. and I think... i could be okay with that. (IF things re: player personnnel are changed)

 

[Daisy Jane]

He gets a lot of heat and rightfully so, but the real issue here is our Scouting and development. Our last "good" player through the system was Kaberle from 1996!!

How our scouting gets off so easy is unreal.

Nonis should be gone or at least demoted and kept on as Asst GM (he does provide some value) or something but we need a Coach and GM who are on the same page and an entire new scouting staff - steal Anaheim and Detroit guys and I'm thrilled.

Shanahan actually audited the scouting department a few weeks ago, and wanted to see their final rankings before they were submitted, and according to Simmons he was happy with the rankings. which means, the General Managers were the ones who made the final calls on some of them. i doubt we'll ever see this true breakdown, but i'd love to see the ratio between "GM call" vs "Scout Call"

 

[Nithoniniel]

One could see this period from TDL to draft as Nonis auditioning for keeping his position but in the new role as part of a think tank. So far so good in my opinion. If he continues like that, I see no reason to get rid of him except out of spite due to past mistakes.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I would say his last 2 trades has given him a new lease for life, if indeed he was ever to be fired. I don't know what is on Shanahan's mind. But he and Nonis jointly interviewed Hunter, Pridham, and Dubas. Thus one must expect either was smart to get inexperienced hockey execs in to make himself indispensible or Shanahan was always good with Nonis as GM.

 

[hfdshdh]

Wrote this in another thread:

Nonis as a traditional GM has been bad, and most want him gone because of his past performance. I try to view it in terms of what we want and need moving forward.

I think the biggest change in terms of management has been that we've gone from having Nonis in a leading role to having a group making decisions, with Shanahan as chairman. We have Hunter with his input, and his expertise on drafting and developing, Dubas and his input with emphasis on statistical support, and Shanahan with his experience from a very successful organisation. My feeling from what I've seen is that although Shanahan is the top guy now, he doesn't carry as much of the load as Nonis did before. With the previous management group, I just don't see anyone really sharing the decision-making with Nonis.

So what we need from the fourth member of that group is someone who can negotiate and has the contacts, someone who can put down the work when the group, including him, has taken a decision on how to move forward. And when being directed like that, I have no problem with Nonis being that guy. I like the decisions made by this group so far, and I think Nonis can do a decent job of carrying out those decisions.

Wasn't Pridham brought in to be the 'capologist'?

I agree with you, though. Nonis seems like a good soldier. The impression I get is that, before Shanny/Dubas/etc., the pressure from Leiweke to 'go big or go home' and from Carlyle to get more 'grit' and 'heart' is largely what lead to the Clarkson signing, buying out Grabovski, letting MacArthur walk, Liles for Gleason, etc.

Nonis still has to share in the blame for all of that, but since the management team around him changed, he's been making plenty of smart moves. I still wouldn't be entirely surprised if he gets the axe this summer, but it won't tick me off if he sticks around.

 

[Daisy Jane]

One could see this period from TDL to draft as Nonis auditioning for keeping his position but in the new role as part of a think tank. So far so good in my opinion. If he continues like that, I see no reason to get rid of him except out of spite due to past mistakes.

Exactly.
which also means, some of the issues. (remember everyone snarking on "but why the assistants") could have flatly been - because of the assistants

I will put the focus on Nonis - just because Losielle flat out drew up the stupidest contract on earth regarding Clarkson - doesn't mean Nonis had to agree with it. that's on him. (same with tossing out 2nd round picks as if they were party favours). but at the same time, it was evident that Losielle's grasp on ... what needed to be done wasn't good enough.

out Loiselle, in Pirdham (whose job was to run the CBA/Cap on the League side).
(and so on and so forth)

Maybe -and again, we'll have to see.
the most shewed move of all may have been the ones we all mocked this summer. ditching the assistants. Because they easily could be the ones giving Nonis more information and help/support to make better decisions (enhancing his job), than the previous ones.

which is exactly what assistants should be doing.
[and again - creating something that a lot of organizations have, which is giving a lot of "inexperienced people" a chance to learn and apprentice. so when Nonis eventually does get the boot - Dubas/Hunter now has XX years of experience vs. 0. (or 0+1 etc)

I would say his last 2 trades has given him a new lease for life, if indeed he was ever to be fired. I don't know what is on Shanahan's mind. But he and Nonis jointly interviewed Hunter, Pridham, and Dubas. Thus one must expect either was smart to get inexperienced hockey execs in to make himself indispensible or Shanahan was always good with Nonis as GM.

this is something again we tend to forget. (i do). i mean who knows what will happen, right?) but I think at the very least, Nonis saved his job (or created a situation, where he could at least have afighting chance

OR! like you mentioned - Shanahan was always good with Nonis, just not with everything around the situation. we'll see. come April 12th.

 

[613Leafer]

I would say his last 2 trades has given him a new lease for life, if indeed he was ever to be fired. I don't know what is on Shanahan's mind. But he and Nonis jointly interviewed Hunter, Pridham, and Dubas. Thus one must expect either was smart to get inexperienced hockey execs in to make himself indispensible or Shanahan was always good with Nonis as GM.

Nonis' problem was always his lack of vision. In terms of trade value, the Bolland trade wasn't bad. In terms of trade timing for this organization though, it was terrible. Too many missed opportunities with letting pending UFAs walk too, though this year he's showing that he can get good value if he's actually willing to part with pending UFAs.

Had Nonis had different philosophies regarding asset management, he probably could have done a pretty good job. If Shanny is here to guide the overall philosophy, then arguably Nonis could be a good guy to keep around and arrange trades that fit Shanny's vision. Burke even said that Nonis did the majority of the work on I believe all of the Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Phaneuf trades, all of which were good value.

There are no excuses for the Clarkson signing though, regardless of win now vs patient philosophies, it's simply a terrible deal. And then there's the factor of why does Nonis deserve to keep such a high profile position after driving this franchise into the ground due to his poor vision.

 

[BlueBaron]

If they are going to remove Nonis it should be the day after the trade deadline.

I personally think he can do the job during the first stages of the rebuilding. Drafting and acquiring picks. It's the later stages I have my doubts about.

 

[BlueBaron]

Nonis' problem was always his lack of vision. In terms of trade value, the Bolland trade wasn't bad. In terms of trade timing for this organization though, it was terrible. Too many missed opportunities with letting pending UFAs walk too, though this year he's showing that he can get good value if he's actually willing to part with pending UFAs.

Had Nonis had different philosophies regarding asset management, he probably could have done a pretty good job. If Shanny is here to guide the overall philosophy, then arguably Nonis could be a good guy to keep around and arrange trades that fit Shanny's vision. Burke even said that Nonis did the majority of the work on I believe all of the Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Phaneuf trades, all of which were good value.

There are no excuses for the Clarkson signing though, regardless of win now vs patient philosophies, it's simply a terrible deal. And then there's the factor of why does Nonis deserve to keep such a high profile position after driving this franchise into the ground due to his poor vision.

If we had got the 30 goal Clarkson no one would have said anything about the deal, but to give that kind of money to a one hit wonder is questionable. Huge gamble that lost.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I will say this, Nonis is probably a good technician as a GM.

Even the best Head Chef's in a kitchen rarely cook, they leave this up to their sous chef's.

Maybe Nonis needs a Head Chef, as long as he is the one executing the deals.

 

[napoleon in rags]

I'm not enthused by how he squandered cap space, used the compliance buyouts, and gave out long term contracts like samples at Costco.

It is a question of fact as to the extent those decisions were his alone; but he's the GM, so the buck stops with him.

If he's kept around, it's on a short leash.

 

[WilliamNylander]

I really dont think he is in charge anymore and if Shanny/Hunter/Dubas found a niche role for him as a media guy then so be it.

The acquisition of draft picks is something that Nonis has never done here BUT Hunter's/Dubas's teams always led the league in # of draft picks so the team's attitude has definitely changed.

 

[indigobuffalo]

He seems to be good at brokering deals most of the time, seems like he's been made into something of a PR guy mixed with a scout.

He's the visage of the Wizard of Oz with all the smoke and mirrors.

The real guys in charge are behind the curtain, and I for one see no reason to end the charade because it keeps the heat of Shanahan, and so far he's doing a lot of good stuff: Getting the board "on-board" with a tear-down rebuild. Unloading the core, selling at the deadline! Acquiring great minds in the Hockey Operations team, establishing an Analytics dept!!, the list goes on.

IMO, if the media had it's spotlight focused on Shanny this whole time, a lot of that might not have been done, because he might've been rushed or pressured to do something else.

Nonis is the human sacrifice that is finally appeasing the hockey gods and turning this organization's luck around.

Let's not ruin it by firing Nonis.

 

[leafs in five]

he seems really boring and i bet he tells wearing an onion on his belt type stories which maybe that's part of how he can get the better of some other GMs in trades

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Unless Nonis is dumb (and he is far from) then he should have learnt from his mistakes and not repeat them. Something a new guy very well do.

And considering Nonis is a rather weak #1 but a good #2 I think he is the perfect fit with Shanahan as the president and Hunter and Dubas given bigger roles and ability to influence their GM´s decisions.