Confirmed with Link: Nashville buys out Turris

[Predsanddead24]

Beyond the fact that Josi has a NMC so hes not going anywhere, trading Josi and hoping Fabbro can step up into that role so we can add Taylor Hall is one of the worst rebuilding ideas I've come across.

 

[Kat Predator]

Josi is going nowhere. Besides sacrificing defense in the hopes of inflating the offense was what they tried before the 19-20 season and it was a disaster. Rinse and repeat would smack of short term memory loss.

 

[Byrddog]

Beyond the fact that Josi has a NMC so hes not going anywhere, trading Josi and hoping Fabbro can step up into that role so we can add Taylor Hall is one of the worst rebuilding ideas I've come across.

If I am not mistaken Josi's NMC does not go into effect until the first of the season when his raise does. Remember Poile did this before see Tomas Vokoun. Also recall here when everyone said Poile would never trade Weber? You do not trade your captain? And no I can think of one other idea that was worse adding Johansen for Jones when he could have got RNH as the 1c plus Edmonton would have added. So I do not think it is out od the box thinking Poile would not try this.

Josi is going nowhere. Besides sacrificing defense in the hopes of inflating the offense was what they tried before the 19-20 season and it was a disaster. Rinse and repeat would smack of short term memory loss.

We are talking about Poile here and this is just as likely as a rebuild especially a rebuild that is not going to be over before Josi is 33 or 34. This is a logical step in Poiles eyes if he rebuilds he has Josi on a team with little hope of any type playoff run. Not to mention Ellis in that same age group as well as Johansen and Duchene. With little to no hope of moving Turris, Duchene or Johansen he will need to make a move. The core is in the same age group not being able to wait on drafted players to mature and a former Veznia trophy winner whos wheels seem to have come off in net. So he is going to need to trade from the D strength again and get better bang for the buck. This is Poile. If it were me I would expose both Duchene and Johansen hoping Seattle would take one the remainder would be the 1C I would go after Lehner and Hall retain picks to stock the farm until rest age out. The worst nightmare is to do nothing sliding what little talent is left into the roster ready or not and even the top pick from this draft. This is what Edmonton did for years and the reason Buffalo has struggled while the young guys mature. It took until Eichels 4th year for him to be a PPG guy that he was drafted for, Sam Reinhart is still struggling 5 years in, it was Draisatils 3rd year before he broke thru. And look at the top picks Edmonton let go Hall included.

Going into the 23 season Poile will Poile. Unless he retires or by some leap of faith these hockey ignorant owners remover him we can expect the same. Now if a new GM does come in you will see wholesale change just like the first three years of Lavi's stay.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

Here is one option that we have not considered. Trade Josi that pushes his spending ability to 18 mil Fabbro steps up. He can then go after Taylor Hall who would fit with either of the 2C's Hall would cost about 4 mil leaving him 14 he re signs Smith for the 3rd line at 3 mil he is down to 11 mil.

Trade our captain, who we just signed to an 8 year extension, and a Top 5 defender... To sign Taylor Hall? Just what we need another big free agent (Also Taylor Hall is not going to only cost you 4 million he would laugh at that offer), at this point we should just hope some prospects actually develop into decent pieces. Tolvanen we’ll find out if he’s legit or not next season, same with maybe Pitlick, and as much as I want to see Tomasino play, I doubt we see him unless it’s for 9 games. He’s saying that he’s going to make big changes which I’m pretty sure that means one of our centers will likely be moved for a winger because we’re losing Smith, and Granlund. This team just needs our guys who were paying like stars to actually play like their stars. Johansen, Turris, Duchene one of them need to go IMO it looked good on paper but in execution it was terrible. I just hope, hope, hope we can finally see a forward come out and be our guy who we can rely on to be a consistent PPG guy. Haven’t had a guy get 70 points since 2008 when J.P Dumont and Jason Arnott got to 70 points lol.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Taylor Hall is no solution to anything. Ask Arizona. Ask New Jersey. Ask Edmonton. Right? He's a good player. But we've been down that path before. Whatever we do moving forward, it's not going to involve going out and signing a big fish UFA, I am sure of that.

 

[Armourboy]

Taylor Hall is no solution to anything. Ask Arizona. Ask New Jersey. Ask Edmonton. Right? He's a good player. But we've been down that path before. Whatever we do moving forward, it's not going to involve going out and signing a big fish UFA, I am sure of that.

Agreed. Poile is going to be trying to shed cap rather than bring it in.

 

[Kat Predator]

If one listens to what Poile and Hynes talked about, the "big changes" will be a youth movement as the cap doesn't move and the financial side battens down.

Big changes:

• The 5 through 8 D slots will be new faces with Tinordi possibly slotting in there somewhere.
• Smith and Granlund aren't coming back without taking pay cuts. Read: thanks and bye.
• Turris will be shopped around again.
• Blackwell has one foot out the door and the 12/13 F slot will be up for grabs as usual.

That could be up to a 34% roster turnover there.

Dark horse move: They may try to talk Rinne into retirement for [ed: cash flow?] cap relief and because Hynes doesn't appear to trust him enough to play him.

 

[Predsanddead24]

If one listens to what Poile and Hynes talked about, the "big changes" will be a youth movement as the cap doesn't move and the financial side battens down.

Big changes:

• The 5 through 8 D slots will be new faces with Tinordi possibly slotting in there somewhere.
• Smith and Granlund aren't coming back without taking pay cuts. Read: thanks and bye.
• Turris will be shopped around again.
• Blackwell has one foot out the door and the 12/13 F slot will be up for grabs as usual.

That could be up to a 34% roster turnover there.

Dark horse move: They may try to talk Rinne into retirement for cap relief and because Hynes doesn't appear to trust him enough to play him.

I don't think we would get cap relief from Rinne retiring since it was 35+ contract. Although even without cap relief if we really are going youth movement I wouldn't mind him retiring and having Saros and Ingram battle it out. I guess the downside is if they both look good you could lose one to the expansion draft whereas you can kind of hide Ingram in the AHL otherwise.

 

[Kat Predator]

I don't think we would get cap relief from Rinne retiring since it was 35+ contract. Although even without cap relief if we really are going youth movement I wouldn't mind him retiring and having Saros and Ingram battle it out. I guess the downside is if they both look good you could lose one to the expansion draft whereas you can kind of hide Ingram in the AHL otherwise.

Rinne's contract is $5M and 35+ contract count against the cap. NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

Some other "know when to fold 'em" cap hugging moves could be trading Forsberg or Ekholm as their term and value put them both inside the "seller's bubble".

 

[Predsanddead24]

Rinne's contract is $5M and 35+ contract count against the cap. NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

Some other "know when to fold 'em" cap hugging moves could be trading Forsberg or Ekholm as their term and value put them both inside the bubble".

I'm saying that the $5 million counts whether or not he is active so retiring doesn't save is that $5 mil. Regardless if we are going youth movement there isn't any reason to get cap relief for this season if we aren't going to spend it.

I've advocated looking at moving Ekholm because of his age but there is zero chance I would move Forsberg.

 

[Armourboy]

Rinne's contract is $5M and 35+ contract count against the cap. NHL CBA FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps.

Some other "know when to fold 'em" cap hugging moves could be trading Forsberg or Ekholm as their term and value put them both inside the "seller's bubble".

Poile isn't going to get that drastic. While I do think this will basically be written off as a growing year, those types of players you don't move unless it becomes apparent your youth isn't good enough and you just decide to blow it up. I just don't see Poile going the total rebuild route unless the owners tell him too and even then I think he just retires instead of doing that.

 

[Kat Predator]

I'm saying that the $5 million counts whether or not he is active so retiring doesn't save is that $5 mil. Regardless if we are going youth movement there isn't any reason to get cap relief for this season if we aren't going to spend it.

I've advocated looking at moving Ekholm because of his age but there is zero chance I would move Forsberg.

You're probably right about the cap accounting on second thought. But we might assume it could help ownership with short term cash flow. (I'm not a cap hugging fan, btw. They don't give out trophies for maximizing profits or minimizing labor expenses.)

I only mentioned Forsberg and Ekholm in the context of blowing the whole thing up being the best plan.

 

[HockeyPops]

Sources: Turris out, Tomasino in—Predators plan forwards’ futures

 

[adsfan]

I don't think we would get cap relief from Rinne retiring since it was 35+ contract. Although even without cap relief if we really are going youth movement I wouldn't mind him retiring and having Saros and Ingram battle it out. I guess the downside is if they both look good you could lose one to the expansion draft whereas you can kind of hide Ingram in the AHL otherwise.

The Preds need Rinne as their unprotected goalie for the Seattle expansion. You protect Saros and you have Ingram as the backup, like you suggested above. It is a good goalie plan.

Now we just need a good Forward plan!

 

[BigFatCat999]

I'm still at the decision of this;

Buyout 2 million for 8 friggin years total 16 million

or

50% trade of 3 million for 4 friggin years total 12 million

Only thing with a trade is you get SOMETHING. Me personally. give me a pick or a 3rd pairing dman

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

We must be getting pretty close to finding out the answer on this one, at least. I think THAT is where the Bjugstad trade really factors in as an indicator. They may not be in similar situations as players or contracts, but they were both at least somewhat speculatively candidates for buyouts.

If the Free Agent period is opening Oct. 9th now, then the ordinary course buyout window would normally open 15 days before this. Or in other words, about 10 days from now!

So indeed, this is prime time for NHL teams to be trying to figure out if there is any market at all for their unwanted players. Pittsburgh found the best (perhaps only) offer they could get for their player. It shouldn't be much longer before Poile knows if there is anything at all available to him on the Turris front.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm still at the decision of this;

Buyout 2 million for 8 friggin years total 16 million

or

50% trade of 3 million for 4 friggin years total 12 million

Only thing with a trade is you get SOMETHING. Me personally. give me a pick or a 3rd pairing dman

Of course, there's also the gambler's option:

Keep Turris for 1 year and play him a lot and he produces well so that you can trade him for better value next year or maybe even entice Seattle to take him total 6 million. And you got a productive season of Turris out of it at the same time.

I still think this is the gamble that Poile would ultimately rather take. Or he normally would have anyway... not sure if the incredible string of failed gambles he has been accumulating lately might make him gunshy on that now, though.

 

[Predsanddead24]

We must be getting pretty close to finding out the answer on this one, at least. I think THAT is where the Bjugstad trade really factors in as an indicator. They may not be in similar situations as players or contracts, but they were both at least somewhat speculatively candidates for buyouts.

If the Free Agent period is opening Oct. 9th now, then the ordinary course buyout window would normally open 15 days before this. Or in other words, about 10 days from now!

So indeed, this is prime time for NHL teams to be trying to figure out if there is any market at all for their unwanted players. Pittsburgh found the best (perhaps only) offer they could get for their player. It shouldn't be much longer before Poile knows if there is anything at all available to him on the Turris front.

The buyout period closes this year on October 8th or six days after the end of the Finals if that date is later so we still have a bit longer unfortunately. If the Finals do run late it could make for an interesting scenario where we could peruse the free agent market and then buy out Turris if we need the space.

Unless we need the cap space I'm not sure I'd buyout Turris unless you really think having him off the team helps us somehow. Otherwise, you might as well wait a year and see if he plays himself into being tradeworthy. Worst case scenario you buy him out next year with one less year on the cap penalty down the line.

 

[Scoresberg]

That buyout would look ugly in the books for 8 years and I'm not sure if that's the path Poile's gonna go especially in a year like this. There aren't a lot of names in the UFA market for forwards that interest me, so the help is probably not gonna come from there. There has to be a trade made for the other 2nd line winger spot, and I guess I'm fine with Tolvanen/Pitlick/whoever getting that other spot.

Not completely sure about how the cap would work but if we kept Turris or traded him for a 2nd line winger, in my mind we still have to be able to upgrade the defense. I'm confident that if Fabbro takes that 3rd pairing spot, he can pretty much carry that pair and we can get the new guy to play Ekholm or Josi.

If we kept Turris that trade would have to be for someone like Virtanen from Vancouver or someone else like that, low cap hit option.

If we kept Turris, traded for Virtanen and signed Dillon we could be just below the cap. Not sure the owners would want but it'd be doable.

 

[Byrddog]

Trade our captain, who we just signed to an 8 year extension, and a Top 5 defender... To sign Taylor Hall? Just what we need another big free agent (Also Taylor Hall is not going to only cost you 4 million he would laugh at that offer), at this point we should just hope some prospects actually develop into decent pieces. Tolvanen we’ll find out if he’s legit or not next season, same with maybe Pitlick, and as much as I want to see Tomasino play, I doubt we see him unless it’s for 9 games. He’s saying that he’s going to make big changes which I’m pretty sure that means one of our centers will likely be moved for a winger because we’re losing Smith, and Granlund. This team just needs our guys who were paying like stars to actually play like their stars. Johansen, Turris, Duchene one of them need to go IMO it looked good on paper but in execution it was terrible. I just hope, hope, hope we can finally see a forward come out and be our guy who we can rely on to be a consistent PPG guy. Haven’t had a guy get 70 points since 2008 when J.P Dumont and Jason Arnott got to 70 points lol.

No Idea how you got I was pushing to trade Josi for room for Hall I was just pointing out that Poile has done this before a few times now. You are also correct with no 70 point guys, currently the only player that has a legit shot at this is going to be Arvy and this must rely on his staying healthy something that he has yet to do only two of his 5 years has he been able to play 75 games or more. Putting up 61 in both those seasons. He will not be able to be a 70 point guy year in and year out but has the potential to make the mark in injury free years. There is little to no chance that Johansen will ever break 70. I would hope that Duchene would be given a chance with Forsberg and Arvy where he would have a chance. Duchene will not be more than a 50 point guy in the 2nd line situation either on the wing or centering.

Poile has two choices for direction stay the course and bring the young guys already in the system something that will assure top 5 picks for 3 or 4 years or he may try to retain salary and or buy out Turris to patch the roster to be a bubble team yet another year. The reality of the matter is this is not a very good team on the ice now. Kicking the can down the road has failed the last couple years and at some point the roster and pipeline has to be rebuilt. The question now is when?

Hall is a impact player not an elite player who can turn a franchise by hissself. At this point he will be looking for a situation to play for a Cup and this would pretty much rule out Nashville as a consideration. The Cap situation is going to force UFA's to accept smaller deals the next couple years thats just a fact unless teams with Cap are willing to overpay. That is something that is unlikely so Hall will have to accept a 3 or 4 mil contract in order to play on a contending team because those teams are already close to the top of the cap now and looking to shed. That is the very reason Duchene, Johansen, Turris are untradeable. One can make a case for buying out Turris since he only has three years remaining at 6 mil the other two the dollars do not make sense. Its akin to having a car thats a couple years old worth 10k while you owe 21k on it your stuck.

Not much can happen short term to reduce the pain this franchise and the fans are going to endure.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

That buyout would look ugly in the books for 8 years and I'm not sure if that's the path Poile's gonna go especially in a year like this. There aren't a lot of names in the UFA market for forwards that interest me, so the help is probably not gonna come from there. There has to be a trade made for the other 2nd line winger spot, and I guess I'm fine with Tolvanen/Pitlick/whoever getting that other spot.

Not completely sure about how the cap would work but if we kept Turris or traded him for a 2nd line winger, in my mind we still have to be able to upgrade the defense. I'm confident that if Fabbro takes that 3rd pairing spot, he can pretty much carry that pair and we can get the new guy to play Ekholm or Josi.

If we kept Turris that trade would have to be for someone like Virtanen from Vancouver or someone else like that, low cap hit option.

If we kept Turris, traded for Virtanen and signed Dillon we could be just below the cap. Not sure the owners would want but it'd be doable.

I dunno, Virtanen seems a little too much in the "enigmatic" category to me. I liked the idea of trading Jarnkrok for Killorn, given TB's likely forthcoming cap issues. And then maybe we can just do a little patchwork addition of some grit/physicality on the bargain free agent market, just on short-term deals. I don't know if it would be any better, but it would be bigger anyway.

Forsberg ($6M) - Johansen ($8M)- Arvidsson ($4.25M)
Killorn ($4.45M) - Duchene ($8M) - Tolvanen ($0.894M)
Grimaldi ($2M) - Bonino ($4.1M) - Turris ($6M)
Clifford/Martin (UFA-$1.5M) - Sissons ($2.857M) - Watson ($1.5M)
Trenin/Pitlick (RFA - $0.750M)

Josi ($9.059M) - Ellis ($6.25M)
Ekholm ($3.75M) - Fabbro ($0.925M)
Borowiecki/Soucy - Hamonic/Bogosian --- TOTAL $2.5M
Tinordi ($700k) - Carrier ($0.733M)

Rinne ($5M)
Saros ($1.5M)

Santini buried ($0.342M)

TOTAL: $81.06M
​

 

[Scoresberg]

I dunno, Virtanen seems a little too much in the "enigmatic" category to me. I liked the idea of trading Jarnkrok for Killorn, given TB's likely forthcoming cap issues. And then maybe we can just do a little patchwork addition of some grit/physicality on the bargain free agent market, just on short-term deals. I don't know if it would be any better, but it would be bigger anyway.

Forsberg ($6M) - Johansen ($8M)- Arvidsson ($4.25M)
Killorn ($4.45M) - Duchene ($8M) - Tolvanen ($0.894M)
Grimaldi ($2M) - Bonino ($4.1M) - Turris ($6M)
Clifford/Martin (UFA-$1.5M) - Sissons ($2.857M) - Watson ($1.5M)
Trenin/Pitlick (RFA - $0.750M)

Josi ($9.059M) - Ellis ($6.25M)
Ekholm ($3.75M) - Fabbro ($0.925M)
Borowiecki/Soucy - Hamonic/Bogosian --- TOTAL $2.5M
Tinordi ($700k) - Carrier ($0.733M)

Rinne ($5M)
Saros ($1.5M)

Santini buried ($0.342M)

TOTAL: $81.06M
​

I like this, although this is not much of a youth movement that Poile was talking about. It'd be easier to start it upfront and tighten up the backend for sure.

Virtanen's just a name that has come up in the trade talks, I don't actually like him that much either. I just think he'd be rather cheap, say compared to Josh Anderson, who's also been on the trade block.

 

[101st_fan]

There are enough potentially leaving UFAs that it gets relatively simple for Poile to recreate this team to fit how Hynes wants to coach. Where Turris fits in that with Granlund and Smith potentially gone on the open market is the great unknown.

 

[BigFatCat999]

There are enough potentially leaving UFAs that it gets relatively simple for Poile to recreate this team to fit how Hynes wants to coach. Where Turris fits in that with Granlund and Smith potentially gone on the open market is the great unknown.

Do we KNOW what Hynes wants?

 

[Armourboy]

In all of this we are leaving out what the owners want to do. We are going to be going into a season with a bunch of unknowns, including how many butts will be in the seats. I still think Poile tries as many young guys as he can, offloads what bad contracts he can, and then fills in cheaply as necessary.

I think he is going to retool as much as he can while keeping the owners pockets in mind too.