Should Marner's next contract be similar to what Nikita Kucherov is getting?

[LeafsNation75]

Marners contract will likely have large early bonuses they did with Tavares' (he's getting near 30 million in signing bonus dollars over the first two years of his deal).

The Leafs probably will do this with all their big deals

I would not be surprised if they also do that with Matthews next contract.

 

[81Leafs50]

9 is the max for Marner. He doesnt score many goals. No team pays a 20 goal guy 9+mill and gets away with it long term.

i prefer 8-8.5mill for 8 years for Marner. Kucherov scored 39 goals and got that number.

 

[Puckstuff]

You pitch the Kucherov/Eichel contract and hope you can get away with the fact those contracts were signed with other variables (Kucherov in a 0% income tax state and Eichel before he transcended)

 

[diceman934]

9 is the max for Marner. He doesnt score many goals. No team pays a 20 goal guy 9+mill and gets away with it long term.

i prefer 8-8.5mill for 8 years for Marner. Kucherov scored 39 goals and got that number.

Just an FYI he was on pace for 15 goals 7 games ago and now is on pace for 28. He is likely to end in the 30 plus goal range and a career point per game player despite his first two years.

He will get paid as he is not a simply winger he is our best player and has been since over a year. It will be in the 9.5 to 10.5 range and Our Boy wonder Dubas has royally screwed up.

 

[diceman934]

Gramps here. Comparing after tax contracts between Florida and Ontario is like comparing apples and oranges. One of my grandsons who plays minor pro hockey today in Canada has his primary home condo outside Tampa (he is a dual US citizen) so as to reduce his taxes paid. There is no state tax in Florida. It is pretty simple. Now there are a lot of other things involved that the accountant does looking at his flights and games played outside canada. But he looked at it as a resident of Ontario and as a Florida resident and it was a complete no brainer to be a Florida resident. He tells me he is up about 15 % better off take home pay wise resident in Florida. And he does the same thing being a corporation going on too. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not informed. The more money you make the more advantage you would get. And everyone pays taxes. There are no special exemptions.

Just an FYI. You do not need to be a citizen to claim you are a resident of any state in the USA. You simply need to own Orlando home to claim this. A pro athlete who is playing in Canada and is a resident of the US will pay taxes in both locations. The US resident will pay a cap of 15% federal tax here in Canada and this affects their Provincial tax as well. In not state tax States the player will pay just Federal tax and this takes into consideration where the income is earned.

These are available to every NHL player. There are many ways to shelter income in both the US and in Canada. The advantages to being a Florida State hockey player is far less advantageous then what you presented.

There is a reason why players Like getting paid bonus money as it is taxed differently as well as large sums as well.

I posted a link a while back to show just what I was talking about.

Lower income earners like an Typical AHL player will see a bigger advantage by having their primary residence in the US and keep more of their gross pay home.

All NHL players are paid in US money which at this time is about 33% more in Canadian and this also affects net pay.

 

[ACC1224]

9 is the max for Marner. He doesnt score many goals. No team pays a 20 goal guy 9+mill and gets away with it long term.

i prefer 8-8.5mill for 8 years for Marner. Kucherov scored 39 goals and got that number.

You may prefer 8 but based on what I was told he turned down in the summer, it will be more than that.

 

[shortfuze]

I know it was reported 13 mill but no one knows for sure how much and how many years, but I don't think Mathews is going to accept anything less than what JT is making.

Why does he deserve more then Tavares or even the same? Tavares has been in the league for 10 years and has played over 700 games. Has put up almost point per game in his career. Plus he was a UFA. Matthews shouldn’t get what Tavares is getting. He needs to earn it and prove it first. A lot of young people want everything right now with out earning it.

 

[LeafFever]

You may prefer 8 but based on what I was told he turned down in the summer, it will be more than that.

The problem with Marner is there was no reason for him to sign in the summer no matter what. He was always going to get more TOI and play with Tavares.

 

[shortfuze]

If Marner was willing to take a hometown discount, his deal would be done already. Its not happening.

Just because he did it sign this past off season doesn’t mean he still can’t take a home town discount. There’s a difference in taking discounts when you’re a 69 point player and a 90 point player.

 

[ACC1224]

The problem with Marner is there was no reason for him to sign in the summer no matter what. He was always going to get more TOI and play with Tavares.

Correct he knew his value would increase and it has so he won’t settle for slightly more than offered.

 

[LeafFever]

Correct he knew his value would increase and it has so he won’t settle for slightly more than offered.

Look at his usage and TOI last season, 69 points was fantastic. Everything screamed this guy was going to have a monster year.

 

[shortfuze]

Just an FYI he was on pace for 15 goals 7 games ago and now is on pace for 28. He is likely to end in the 30 plus goal range and a career point per game player despite his first two years.

He will get paid as he is not a simply winger he is our best player and has been since over a year. It will be in the 9.5 to 10.5 range and Our Boy wonder Dubas has royally screwed up.

How did Dubas screw up? Marner has to want to sign the contract doesn’t he?

 

[LeafFever]

How did Dubas screw up? Marner has to want to sign the contract doesn’t he?

Correct. That's been missed on a lot of people.

If I am Marner, I NEVER sign a deal last summer. He had not yet had a full season as a top 6 forward in his career and had 61 and 69 points. Any signing of a contract in the summer costs him millions.

This has some to do with Mike Babcock not giving the same TOI and PP opportunities to his young stars other coaches do.

For instance, Petterson in Vancouver as a rookie is playing as much as Matthews this year(to the exact second), and this is by far the most Auston has ever played.
I am confidant Nylander's contract issues pointed out his lack of overall TOI and PP opportunities with his agent.

 

[ACC1224]

Look at his usage and TOI last season, 69 points was fantastic. Everything screamed this guy was going to have a monster year.

What he’s doing isn’t a surprise to anyone.

 

[LeafFever]

What he’s doing isn’t a surprise to anyone.

90+ point pace the second he got put on a line with better linemates and more TOI on January 24th of last season.

 

[Spirit of 67]

I would think he'll get 7 x $9M.

Matthews will get 8 x $11M.

The term may be the other way but I don't think they will be the same length. We'd have JT/Willy come up. Then the following year Mitch. The year after, AM.
Staggers the contracts nicely.

 

[ACC1224]

90+ point pace the second he got put on a line with better linemates and more TOI on January 24th of last season.

Yes, there has always been a belief that he and Matthews were bing suppressed. In the end it doesn’t matter, they are both too good.

 

[LeafFever]

Yes, there has always been a belief that he and Matthews were bing suppressed. In the end it doesn’t matter, they are both too good.

IMO, Matthews needs more ice-time.

 

[DarkKnight]

The problem with Marner is there was no reason for him to sign in the summer no matter what. He was always going to get more TOI and play with Tavares.

The plan was always to sign Nylander first, signing Marner prior was never going to work. You're going to give Mitch more than Willie and he's going to be fine with that? Never. If we could have signed Nylander in the summer, we may well have had Marner locked up as well, depending on us projecting improvement this year. Given Nylander basically got it all in the end, I do wonder why it was such a long process, and it's fair game whether we've erred with Marner now.

Is there really anyone who thinks Marner's agent wouldn't have done 8-8.5 this off season. I think he would have, let's not forget that was a huge number when people talked about Mitch, most were still in the 7's, 8 tops. I articulated an urgency to sign Marner, it seemed obvious he was poised to go beast mode this year. The hang up was Nylander first, and it went on so long, everything else was put back, which looks worse with each passing primary assist, goal or takeaway.

 

[LeafFever]

The plan was always to sign Nylander first, signing Marner prior was never going to work. You're going to give Mitch more than Willie and he's going to be fine with that? Never. If we could have signed Nylander in the summer, we may well have had Marner locked up as well, depending on us projecting improvement this year. Given Nylander basically got it all in the end, I do wonder why it was such a long process, and it's fair game whether we've erred with Marner now.

Is there really anyone who thinks Marner's agent wouldn't have done 8-8.5 this off season. I think he would have, let's not forget that was a huge number when people talked about Mitch, most were still in the 7's, 8 tops. I articulated an urgency to sign Marner, it seemed obvious he was poised to go beast mode this year. The hang up was Nylander first, and it went on so long, everything else was put back, which looks worse with each passing primary assist, goal or takeaway.

I do not and I am willing to bet those #'s were discussed.

And if it was obvious Mitch was going to have a massive year, why does he sign for 8 million?

 

[DarkKnight]

I do not and I am willing to bet those #'s were discussed.

And if it was obvious Mitch was going to have a massive year, why does he sign for 8 million?

I don't recall people saying this in August. People we saying Willie 6-6.5 and Mitch 7-7.5. Some revisionism here now.

 

[Mess]

Leafs will get lucky if they get Marner signed to the Kucherov contract at this point. That will require Marner to leave money on the table and offer a discount.

Marner and his agent were suggesting the Draisaitl contract as a comparable this past summer and I believe once the JT signing happened, it was a BIG and I mean BIG mistake not to take it and try and get Mitch signed in that range.

Who here didn't think that playing alongside JT and on the PP with AM on a stacked #1unit wasn't going to result in potential PPG+ stats for Marner?

Management were so focused on selling their "We before Me" taking less money than market that they couldn't see the forest for the trees when it came to getting players that were going to explode statistically under contract prior to that happening.

 

[LeafFever]

I don't recall people saying this in August. People we saying Willie 6-6.5 and Mitch 7-7.5. Some revisionism here now.

It's really not because we are talking about Dubas and not people on here. You really think Dubas has not made that type of offer already?

 

[LeafFever]

Leafs will get lucky if they get Marner signed to the Kucherov contract at this point. That will require Marner to leave money on the table and offer a discount.

Marner and his agent were suggesting the Draisaitl contract as a comparable this past summer and I believe once the JT signing happened, it was a BIG and I mean BIG mistake not to take it and try and get Mitch signed in that range.

Who here didn't think that playing alongside JT and on the PP with AM on a stacked #1unit wasn't going to result in potential PPG+ stats for Marner?

Management were so focused on selling their "We before Me" taking less money than market that they couldn't see the forest for the trees when it came to getting players that were going to explode statistically under contract prior to that happening.

Wasn't that Nylander? I never heard Marner connected to it.
And everyone knew Marner would do great this year, but that includes him and his agent.

 

[DarkKnight]

It's really not because we are talking about Dubas and not people on here. You really think Dubas has not made that type of offer already?

He couldn't make an offer until Willie was done, that is accepted fact. The negotiations with Mitch never got serious in my view, Nylander set the table. And I agree it had to be that way.