Proposal: Should Marc Bergevin pull a Lou Lamoriello?

[Native]

No, i don't think bergevin should pull a lamoriello. if he does, i think bergevin should get the boot as well. not a good characteristic for a gm to make knee-jerk reactions.

we have to ride it out to at least the off season. see how we fare in the playoffs. i'm not a big therrien fan and don't want him resigned after his contract is up. however, it would be too disruptive to reboot at this point. current circumstances "buys" therrien some time. its all about carey, and he's only returning now. budaj has shown he's truly a backup. if he held the fort, this conversation wouldn't have come up.

if therrien was jettisoned, who would be the immediate interim coach? gallant? jj? bergevin? we can't afford to sacrifice any more games for a breaking in period. stop gap moves, like cunnyworth, puts us back and just shows you've succumbed to panic.

 

[Chfan]

No, i don't think bergevin should pull a lamoriello. if he does, i think bergevin should get the boot as well. not a good characteristic for a gm to make knee-jerk reactions.

we have to ride it out to at least the off season. see how we fare in the playoffs. i'm not a big therrien fan and don't want him resigned after his contract is up. however, it would be too disruptive to reboot at this point. current circumstances "buys" therrien some time. its all about carey, and he's only returning now. budaj has shown he's truly a backup. if he held the fort, this conversation wouldn't have come up.

if therrien was jettisoned, who would be the immediate interim coach? gallant? jj? bergevin? we can't afford to sacrifice any more games for a breaking in period. stop gap moves, like cunnyworth, puts us back and just shows you've succumbed to panic.

This.

 

[habtastic]

I suppose it's true that it's too late at this point. And I guess that's what pulling a Lamoriello entails (though it's similar to pulling a Gainey). Both of those guys actually coached the team. (First time Lou pulled a Lou, Robinson slotted in.)

Maybe what MB is thinking is that:

Worst case scenario - we miss the POs/get bounced badly = fair grounds for getting rid of Therrien. This way he has more grounds on which to make the move I imagine (or hope) he already wants to make.

Best case - we somehow get by without him having to deal with the drama that would unfold if we did fire Therrien now and replace him with whoever, and as noted above, instil a system within ~14 games before the (potential) playoffs.

My guess is that Therrien won't finish his 3 year contract. The fact that despite how shiiite we've been, Therrien is always sounding like there's a silver lining or that we didn't just get our ***** whoped, tells me that he himself knows the temperature of the water he's in. Otherwise he'd be calling out players the way he used to when he had leeway. I don't think he's asking for anyone to make anyone a better person these days. Just "It's a game of inches". (In a 4-1 loss to your biggest rival at home.)

 

[djpass]

Not this year.

 

[Runner77]

What is happening on the ice is not conjecture. We've sucked, our systems have sucked, the coaching has sucked...

Don't sit there with this BS and tell us that we can't see this because we're not in the backroom. That's just total crap. You don't need to be in the backroom to see Subban benched or Bouillion on the 2nd PP unit so you can go away with this garbage.

Sadly, posters like you are the ones spewing garbage.

It's one thing to talk about Therrien's incompetence or dubious modus operandi.

But another to state what is going on behind the scenes -- you're speculating big time.

"Therrien lost the room", didn't you see that over the week-end? The team refused to pay the price to win. They didn't give the extra effort, surely indicative of a team that no longer wants to play for their coach. It has to be so, your post assures us that the opposite is "total crap".

When you don't know what the ******* you're talking about, ****. There's a reason you're posting your drivel here. Just remember it's nothing more than drivel. You and anyone else who claims Therrien has lost the room, you have no clear evidence, no reliable source. When you do, then you'll have some credibility. Now crawl back to the hole you climbed out of and leave your unfounded theories for a blog or some other BS site.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sadly, posters like you are the ones spewing garbage.

It's one thing to talk about Therrien's incompetence or dubious modus operandi.

But another to state what is going on behind the scenes -- you're speculating big time.

"Therrien lost the room", didn't you see that over the week-end? The team refused to pay the price to win. They didn't give the extra effort, surely indicative of a team that no longer wants to play for their coach. It has to be so, your post assures us that the opposite is "total crap".

When you don't know what the ******* you're talking about, ****. There's a reason you're posting your drivel here. Just remember it's nothing more than drivel. You and anyone else who claims Therrien has lost the room, you have no clear evidence, no reliable source. When you do, then you'll have some credibility. Now crawl back to the hole you climbed out of and leave your unfounded theories for a blog or some other BS site.

29th in 5 on 5 scoring.
PP sinks like a stone.
Vanek playing in a checking role and then on his off-wing.
Subban being thrown under the bus repeatedly.
Lesser players being given more responsibility than better ones.
Dump and chase
Etc...

Our coach lost the room a long time ago.

Do you need to be behind the scenes to see this? Do I need to be in the Vancouver dressing room to know that Tortorella has destroyed that team this season? This nonsense about "having to be in the dressing room" to know anything about what's going on is total BS. God has given us the gift of common sense, its up to you to be able to use it. MT has apparently forsaken it but that doesn't mean that we have to as well.

He is among the absolute worst coaches in the league and I can pretty much guarantee you that this will be the last of his coaching in the NHL. He can't go away soon enough and I have ZERO doubt that the players feel the same way. Except of course our DD, Bouillion and Murray. MT will be on their Christmas card list for life.

 

[Habaneros]

Dale Weise got the Canadiens on the board at 14:41 of the first period with his fourth goal of the season. David Desharnais batted the puck towards the Buffalo goal, where it deflected off Weise's skate and past Sabres goalie Jhonas Enroth. The play was reviewed to see if Weise kicked the puck in intentionally, but video review deemed he did not.

"That's the way we like to play our offense. We're not a fancy team," Therrien said. "We all understand that this time of year you've got to keep it simple, put pucks at the net and get the goals. Most of the time, this is how you're going to score goals. We've been doing that. This is how we made the comeback [Saturday] and we showed the guys how we score goals and tonight that was almost the same thing."

....

 

[NobleSix]

....

Good God...

Therrien wants this team to be a grinding team more than he wants the team to win.

 

[JPGoHabsGo]

So can anyone explain how we went from last years Therrien who used a puck possession system, gave young guys a chance to play, and was generally a players coach who high fived everyone after a win to a garbage can kicking, grinding system coach who overplays veterans and makes crazy line combos?

 

[habtastic]

So can anyone explain how we went from last years Therrien who used a puck possession system, gave young guys a chance to play, and was generally a players coach who high fived everyone after a win to a garbage can kicking, grinding system coach who overplays veterans and makes crazy line combos?

He got p'ssd that Subban won the Norris.



You gotta love that 24CH pandering fist bumping he does in the corridor after (some) wins. I wish someone would miss (as Jim Hughson would say) accidentally on purpose and hit him in the face.

 

[Hoople]

He got p'ssd that Subban won the Norris.



You gotta love that 24CH pandering fist bumping he does in the corridor after (some) wins. I wish someone would miss (as Jim Hughson would say) accidentally on purpose and hit him in the face.

Just for humor....

I do not like Therrien's approach to hockey and would prefer to have a coach who has his team playing more structured offense and defense.

With that said, can you explain WHY Therrien was mad that Subban won the Norris?

 

[sharks9]

No, that's a stupid idea.

 

[Runner77]

29th in 5 on 5 scoring.
PP sinks like a stone.
Vanek playing in a checking role and then on his off-wing.
Subban being thrown under the bus repeatedly.
Lesser players being given more responsibility than better ones.
Dump and chase
Etc...

Vanek was playing left wing on the week-end, where he says he's more comfortable. Vanek paired up with DD and MaxPac, not a checking line. Subban's handling is not optimal but there are no perfect coaches. Subban is showing signs of breaking out.

Agreed about lesser players being used in an erratic fashion at the expense of more talented players. And the rest of it doesn't seem to follow a linear plan. But, it's working.

None of the above allows the incontrovertible assertion that MT is losing the room, however. The players have come out in full force over the week-end -- if you really want to go that route, players who no longer play for their coaches, don't keep battling as they have.

Our coach lost the room a long time ago.

If he did, then you are an oracle. Does Bergevin know this?

Do you need to be behind the scenes to see this? Do I need to be in the Vancouver dressing room to know that Tortorella has destroyed that team this season? This nonsense about "having to be in the dressing room" to know anything about what's going on is total BS. God has given us the gift of common sense, its up to you to be able to use it. MT has apparently forsaken it but that doesn't mean that we have to as well.

How does Therrien compare to Tortorella? We're in playoff contention, Tortorella's ship is sinking. So now we're going to look at the lowest common denominators to try and assimilate their situations to Therrien's even if they're not at all comparable? How extreme is your hatred for Therrien that you're willing to make up strawman arguments? Tortorella is on quite the precipitous cliff. I can't see how Therrien is comparable, not with the team within a playoff spot, with few games left to the season.

He is among the absolute worst coaches in the league and I can pretty much guarantee you that this will be the last of his coaching in the NHL. He can't go away soon enough and I have ZERO doubt that the players feel the same way. Except of course our DD, Bouillion and Murray. MT will be on their Christmas card list for life.

Yes to all of that, but it has nothing to do with Therrien's stranglehold on his job for now. Until the team sinks to improbable depths, misses the playoffs or issues some other signal via management (lack of continued endorsement, non-renewal or non-extension of current contract, etc.), then Therrien's questionable coaching methods will be around for some time yet. That his methods defy logic, doesn't at all mean he's lost the room.

Losing the room is mostly a matter of information leaked out and vetted. You can rarely reverse-engineer the conclusion just by questioning a coach's failed or questionable in-game decision-making, gathered from a tv screen in someone's living room.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

3 out of 4 posters are in favor of axing MT but that doesn't mean it'll happen--at least not until after the season.

 

[Habs]

I've been miserable since his first hiring. The second hiring has made my hatred for this man grow 10x.

 

[Kriss E]

Vanek was playing left wing on the week-end, where he says he's more comfortable. Vanek paired up with DD and MaxPac, not a checking line. Subban's handling is not optimal but there are no perfect coaches. Subban is showing signs of breaking out.

Agreed about lesser players being used in an erratic fashion at the expense of more talented players. And the rest of it doesn't seem to follow a linear plan. But, it's working.

None of the above allows the incontrovertible assertion that MT is losing the room, however. The players have come out in full force over the week-end -- if you really want to go that route, players who no longer play for their coaches, don't keep battling as they have.

Vanek was put with Plekanec when first coming here. I discussed the matter with 417 where he felt Vanek wasn't going to work there, a point I argued against. However, I was under the assumption that this new line would be getting more offensive opportunities instead of being used as a heavy defensive line. Made no sense to trade for a 40goal scorer and then limit his offensive opportunities at ES. I mean really..
He was flipflopped to left and right.

As for Subban, he won the Norris last year. If you hadn't noticed him ''breaking'' out last season than you missed the season. If anything, he's been held back this year by being over coached. All these ''issues'' about PK, but all he really needs to do is play.
He came into this season looking even better, then he got bashed publicly for a number of times. Since then, he's been fighting his plays a lot. It seems he's often second guessing himself. Even in his rushes, it doesn't appear that he fully commits to them. I'm really not impressed by the way Therrien has handled him this year.

Coach losing his players is one thing, players quitting on themselves and the team is completely different.
Julien had lost the room in Jersey, yet the team was 2nd. So, losing the team does not equate to having a losing record or collapsing completely.

If he did, then you are an oracle. Does Bergevin know this?

If we end up losing in the 1st rd, and Therrien gets fired (or I believe his contract is up, so perhaps he just isn't extended), would you be surprised??
Would it actually surprise you if word came out tomorrow that he indeed lost the room??
I know that if it were me, I would have been sick of his lame pregame speeches a long time ago and I'd definitely be wondering what was up with a bunch of his decisions.

How does Therrien compare to Tortorella? We're in playoff contention, Tortorella's ship is sinking. So now we're going to look at the lowest common denominators to try and assimilate their situations to Therrien's even if they're not at all comparable? How extreme is your hatred for Therrien that you're willing to make up strawman arguments? Tortorella is on quite the precipitous cliff. I can't see how Therrien is comparable, not with the team within a playoff spot, with few games left to the season.

His point was just to show that no matter what is said, a coach can still be in hot water. Just like Gainey loved hiring Carbo, and just like Gillies said he had no problems with Tort.
But yes, situation is entirely different.

Yes to all of that, but it has nothing to do with Therrien's stranglehold on his job for now. Until the team sinks to improbable depths, misses the playoffs or issues some other signal via management (lack of continued endorsement, non-renewal or non-extension of current contract, etc.), then Therrien's questionable coaching methods will be around for some time yet. That his methods defy logic, doesn't at all mean he's lost the room.

Losing the room is mostly a matter of information leaked out and vetted. You can rarely reverse-engineer the conclusion just by questioning a coach's failed or questionable in-game decision-making, gathered from a tv screen in someone's living room.

I think that if we have a lackluster PO performance, Therrien will be on the hot seat. If his contract is up, I can see Bergevin going with someone else. Bringing in Vanek means pressure is on Therrien to lead us to the 2nd round at least.

 

[Alexdaman]

Lou Lamoriello fired Claude Julien 3 games before the playoffs back in 2007.

I think Marc Bergevin should do the same thing.


Michel Therrien has clearly lost the room and he is ruining subban.

JJ Daigneault should get the boot too.

What do you think?

I think they should hire you, to replace MT and your best buddy could be the defensive coach, cause he used to play D in Midget.

oh please why is everyone always blaming the coaches, the coaching staff is responsible for practices and distributing TOI to the players during games, some coaches try to add motivation in the locker room and others don't, some like more discpline and others prefer more freedom. Hockey is much more down to the players than anything else, the coaching staff is essentially at the mercy of the team when 1st period starts.

If you wanna talk about coaching staff you gotta look at the team as a whole... The Canadiens are 3rd in the East and they dont have high end offensive talented players and still managed to make it that far, if anything that proves that the team's structure is just fine. I dont care if the coach can't put a full sentence together in english if the team is performing than theres no reason for a change.

Lou Lamoriello fired a coach while the team was 2nd in the conference, that same coach went on to win the Stanley Cup a couple years later.

The Devils were also crushed by the Senators in the 2nd round.

 

[Kimota]

....

Well he has a point that during the comeback most of the Habs' goals came about cause we put bodies in front of the net. I don't get what's wrong with what he said?

 

[ECWHSWI]

Vanek was playing left wing on the week-end, where he says he's more comfortable. Vanek paired up with DD and MaxPac, not a checking line. Subban's handling is not optimal but there are no perfect coaches. Subban is showing signs of breaking out.

Vanek started with Plekanec-Gionta who were assigned a defensive role, probably the toughest minutes on the team...

so he decides to move him from Plekanec as he doesnt see it working well...

but put Vanek on the right when the guy said he's more comfortable on the left...

but more importantly, after removing Vanek from a "checking line" (well defensive actually, Plek line) he then decides to remove Gionta from Plekanec wing and give #14 two wingers who can contribute more offesively...


think about it for a sec, he removed Vanek from the tough minutes - defensive line to play him on RW, and then proceed to turn Plekanec line into a more offensive line...

look, I'm happy for Plek, he can finally start trying stuff offensively again...

but the whole thing reeks of improvisation.

 

[Runner77]

think about it for a sec, he removed Vanek from the tough minutes - defensive line to play him on RW, and then proceed to turn Plekanec line into a more offensive line...

look, I'm happy for Plek, he can finally start trying stuff offensively again...

but the whole thing reeks of improvisation.

Which is why I limited my comments about Vanek's use over the past week-end as opposed to the way he was broken in. Also, I was merely rebutting to an argument that included Vanek's use in a laundry list about how MT was allegedly losing the room. Therrien's decision-making is suspect, so I'm not going to defend it. However, as shoddy as it is, I don't see how he's lost the room at this time.

 

[Runner77]

Vanek was put with Plekanec when first coming here. I discussed the matter with 417 where he felt Vanek wasn't going to work there, a point I argued against. However, I was under the assumption that this new line would be getting more offensive opportunities instead of being used as a heavy defensive line. Made no sense to trade for a 40goal scorer and then limit his offensive opportunities at ES. I mean really..
He was flipflopped to left and right.

I'm not disagreeing with that, but limited by comments strictly to the past week-end.

As for Subban, he won the Norris last year. If you hadn't noticed him ''breaking'' out last season than you missed the season. If anything, he's been held back this year by being over coached. All these ''issues'' about PK, but all he really needs to do is play.
He came into this season looking even better, then he got bashed publicly for a number of times. Since then, he's been fighting his plays a lot. It seems he's often second guessing himself. Even in his rushes, it doesn't appear that he fully commits to them. I'm really not impressed by the way Therrien has handled him this year.

I don't know that Therrien is the sole impacting factor on Subban's performance this year. For one, Norris winners rarely repeat on consecutive seasons. The elephant in the room was the whole fiasco scenario about how several pundits negatively portrayed Subban's chances of being named to the Olympic team, and then how Subban's performance cratered after he had been nominated. Followed by the way he was relegated to a non-useful role throughout the Olympics. All of this played into his flatlined play, as it continued on his return from the Games. Perhaps this is the part that you haven't given enough weight to, in ascribing Subban's underperformance to MT's coaching.

Coach losing his players is one thing, players quitting on themselves and the team is completely different.
Julien had lost the room in Jersey, yet the team was 2nd. So, losing the team does not equate to having a losing record or collapsing completely.

Inductive or deductive logic is not a replacement for facts. Does anyone know for a fact that Therrien has lost the room? Lots of unrestrained bravado in this thread -- was merely seeking to restore balance.

If we end up losing in the 1st rd, and Therrien gets fired (or I believe his contract is up, so perhaps he just isn't extended), would you be surprised??
Would it actually surprise you if word came out tomorrow that he indeed lost the room??

If we win the first round, would you be surprised that the room had never been lost? Are your hypotheticals built on securing only the one outcome?

I know that if it were me, I would have been sick of his lame pregame speeches a long time ago and I'd definitely be wondering what was up with a bunch of his decisions.

He's certainly not the most inspiring of communicators or some visionary, however, I wouldn't be surprised that many coaches of his generation share similar shortcomings. Certainly, a more intelligent and astute coach employing modern methods, is much more highly desirable, especially for a marquee franchise. However, the end is justifying the means at this point -- when the team is sitting in the third spot in the conference, his decision-making and gambler mentality will be that much easier to swallow.

His point was just to show that no matter what is said, a coach can still be in hot water. Just like Gainey loved hiring Carbo, and just like Gillies said he had no problems with Tort.
But yes, situation is entirely different.

His point and that of the OP, expressed a foregone conclusion that doesn't exist. It's about losing the room, not about his questionable methods or in how much hot water he might be. The poster and the OP made assertions that are not supported by any sources. No one can know if MT has lost the room, unless someone in the room makes it a point to leak it. Simple as that.

I think that if we have a lackluster PO performance, Therrien will be on the hot seat. If his contract is up, I can see Bergevin going with someone else. Bringing in Vanek means pressure is on Therrien to lead us to the 2nd round at least.

Legitimate points, I concur. However, nothing to do with MT currently having lost the room, which is where the debate came from.

 

[habitant1947]

Should MB pull a Lou Lamerillo

Yes , my choice for our coach would be Marc Crawford and he can speak French, has won a Stanley Cup and is a good coach.

 

[ICE NIKE]

Montreal should fire therrien or not

In my opinion we should fire therrien and take guy boucher if in the futur he still available

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I would love to see him canned, but he doesn't deserve it. Team overachieved last year and are 3rd in the conference this year. Hard to fire a coach when the team is winning. The first time they start losing, you fire him.

 

[gusfring]

We are 3rd in the conference? Don't think so.