Should goalies have to pay to play on a Beer League team?
- Thread starter Rangediddy
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Wilch
Unregistered User
- Mar 29, 2010
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Yep, so true.
I play both out and goalie. My player gear, other than skates and helmet, is all over 10 years old and still in great shape. A lot of it is how well it's taken care of. Gear that's left in the bag and never washed is going to degrade way more quickly. Same for goalie gear, the difference being that just in being used properly goalie gear takes a beating that player gear just doesn't. And like someone else said in this discussion, it's so much more important that goalie gear be in good condition. I've spent $2500 on goal gear in the last 7 years, which is way more than I've spent on player gear ever.
That said, I don't think it makes goalie all so super special. I play goal because I love playing goal. I don't expect other people to subsidize the hobby that I love. Like I said before, if I'm part of a team, I'm part of a team and I'll pay what I'm asked.
I know it could get my thrown out of the goalie union and all, but really, we're just hockey players. Even if we do something that the majority don't have the stones to do.
I don't mind goalies not paying.
I mind the ones who don't pay, are flakey and throw temper tantrums.
I would be ok with the latter two if they paid though.
Mr Fahrenheit
Valar Morghulis
- Oct 9, 2009
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~1200 a year. Which is 2 seasons, one 16 games the other 22 plus 2 preseason and playoffs each season
Goalie guy
Registered User
That's about double what ours is here. That's steep bud sorry. I have 12 rinks with in a 20min drive of me though.
Goalie guy
Registered User
Our league goalies pay the same as players, even if one wants to play back-up goalie
You have back up's on hand at the games??
ORLY
Registered User
- Oct 31, 2011
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They will allow it, but Im just in intramural hockey at a university right now so i have no idea why someone would pay to sit on the bench all the time, but that is what this one guy wanted to do for our team. We told him no, it made no sense at all for him to just sit there. Max 15 a team and I guess they don't care how that is divided position wise.
Ok that's a bit of an exaggeration. It sounds like you are paying the highest league fees of anywhere on the planet. League fees for the players on my team runs 850 a year. I know *just* my goalie pads are ~1600 and they last 3 years roughly. So *just* my goalie pads are 2 years of league fees. Unlike my player gear, goalie gear just does not last forever. I know players who have gotten 15+ years out of some of their gear. For reference, how much are you spending on gear each year because you have to? Not counting people who just want to try out the latest stick technology and so forth. The other aspect is unlike skaters, you really do need pro level gear. As stated earlier.
You state you are in the largest league in the country. If there are that many skaters why is it so expensive? What league is that anyway, (just wondering). You have a full roster? I know some who might pay less or more because the fee is based on the team, not the individual.
There is a pretty easy solution for you. Run your own team, and demand that the goalie that you get pays the same as everyone else. Let us know how that works out for you...
(in this case it's the inverse of you get what you pay for)
Ozz
Registered User
Just to be "the guy" to upset everybody...
One of my team's goalies gladly pays full price, can only recall him missing 2 games in about 3 years, and is one of the best in the division we're in. No pro level equipment, I can't say I know much of his gear but he doesn't ever get hurt.
Then on another team, my good friend is also very reliable and also REALLY WANTS to be the goalie. He knows we can get half a dozen guys to replace him, even paying, if we wanted. He's famous for having his head so far out of the game we may as well go home. He has pro level pads (I know for sure as he gets amazing discounts on new gear from the brand rep) but is currently waiting for the extra talent to kick in. Yet amazingly he's almost always getting hurt
Again I'm not saying either is right or wrong, but it's funny how some seem to possibly maybe have a sense of entitlement as if they don't even want to play net and it's just a favor to the team. That wouldn't work too well around here, but I can't fault anyone for playing to the supply & demand either.
FWIW we have about 5 skaters on my top division team who are as good in net as our main goalie. If he ever copped an attitude and acted like we owed him something, it wouldn't be a problem for us to give him the boot. He doesn't and never has paid, though he says he would if we asked. We just never have, and that is A-OK with us all. He also doesn't act like he should be above doing so.
We also have a current NHL draftee who has played on our roster a few times; and he's paid to play. He would mix his skating out & goaltending (drafted for goaltending, BTW) but would pay full price and play net as needed. Likely soon he'll be able to pay for us all to play for the rest of our lives though, so hey...
bigwillie
Registered User
I'm sorry, I've been playing goal for 15 years and I just don't buy the reasoning that a goalie's equipment is too expensive to make them pay at all. It's a decent reason to excuse us from paying for full price, but to not pay at all is a little ridiculous.
I've gone through plenty of equipment, and never once have I bought anything new except for helmets, sticks and skates, and even those I usually buy on sale at goalie monkey or whatever. You can get massive discounts on lightly used equipment on eBay, and you're right, Play it Again has OK stuff every once in a while. I've always bought used, pro-level equipment for much cheaper than new and have been fine, even playing against current and former NHL'ers on more than a few occasions.
I've also always meticulously cared for and maintained my pads too. For the price of a 5 dollar sewing kit, you can easily squeeze another year or two out of your pads. You can repalm blockers. Sew up pads. Reinforce seams on your pants.
Hell, I still have Bauer Reactors from 1998 that I would feel comfortable taking high level shots from. My main pads, trapper and blocker are Brian's Beasts from 2006 that provide just as much protection as newer pro-level gear. Are they worn and ugly? Sure. Outdated? A lot of goalies would say so. However, they I don't need to spend 2000 to upgrade just to shave a few ounces off the weight and have a cleaner looking set.
I think goalies are the most finicky about their equipment than any other group of athlete, and it's undoubtedly deserved. We rely on our gear and need to have trust in it to perform. But, to put ourselves on a pedestal where we refuse to take equal participation as our teammates is a little much.
If the cost of goaltending is such a burden where you can't/refuse to pay league fees and gear cost, maybe it's time to find a different hobby.
If you hate goaltending so much that you need to either play free or even be compensated with free beer to make it worth your while, maybe you too need to find a different hobby.
I LOVE playing goal and am willing to pay to do so. I also work at a non-profit and I'm sure as **** not made of money. It's just one of the sacrifices you make to play the expensive hobby you love.
I've gone through plenty of equipment, and never once have I bought anything new except for helmets, sticks and skates, and even those I usually buy on sale at goalie monkey or whatever. You can get massive discounts on lightly used equipment on eBay, and you're right, Play it Again has OK stuff every once in a while. I've always bought used, pro-level equipment for much cheaper than new and have been fine, even playing against current and former NHL'ers on more than a few occasions.
I've also always meticulously cared for and maintained my pads too. For the price of a 5 dollar sewing kit, you can easily squeeze another year or two out of your pads. You can repalm blockers. Sew up pads. Reinforce seams on your pants.
Hell, I still have Bauer Reactors from 1998 that I would feel comfortable taking high level shots from. My main pads, trapper and blocker are Brian's Beasts from 2006 that provide just as much protection as newer pro-level gear. Are they worn and ugly? Sure. Outdated? A lot of goalies would say so. However, they I don't need to spend 2000 to upgrade just to shave a few ounces off the weight and have a cleaner looking set.
I think goalies are the most finicky about their equipment than any other group of athlete, and it's undoubtedly deserved. We rely on our gear and need to have trust in it to perform. But, to put ourselves on a pedestal where we refuse to take equal participation as our teammates is a little much.
If the cost of goaltending is such a burden where you can't/refuse to pay league fees and gear cost, maybe it's time to find a different hobby.
If you hate goaltending so much that you need to either play free or even be compensated with free beer to make it worth your while, maybe you too need to find a different hobby.
I LOVE playing goal and am willing to pay to do so. I also work at a non-profit and I'm sure as **** not made of money. It's just one of the sacrifices you make to play the expensive hobby you love.
There's a third one you're missing:
If you're such a good goalie who is reliable and is a good teammate that you can play for free, then good for you.
That, I believe, is the most important determining factor.
I play for free on my teams. I even get free equipment, so it's not as if I'm paying for a bunch of stuff and that's why I can't afford it. But the guys still know that if they made me pay, I'd likely take my services elsewhere.
A couple weeks ago a buddy approached me to play on his team next year. A year in advance he's trying to lock it up. He said goalies pay league fees plus for the jersey. I almost laughed at him. Even though he then said they'd cover the league fees and that I didn't HAVE to buy the jerseys, I have it perfectly good where I am now. No reason to change.
The fact is that if you're good enough, reliable enough, and nice enough, you have the leverage. Goalies are hard enough to come by, and good goalies are even fewer. Reliable goalies even fewer than that! If you want a good goalie there every week, you'll pay for it. That's simply supply and demand.
Every league I've played in I have to pay, which I'm fine with. It's a team.
But if you call me to play pick-up, I'm playing net for free or enjoy not having a skate.
Two very different scenarios.
But if you call me to play pick-up, I'm playing net for free or enjoy not having a skate.
Two very different scenarios.
Ozz
Registered User
This I totally agree on. Not sure how it goes for everyone else but around here it's often feast or famine: 1 goalie at pickup or 3-4
bigwillie
Registered User
My post was related strictly to the argument that the cost of gear was reason enough for goalies to not pay fees. Nothing to do the with the supply and demand argument you put forward, with which I completely agree.
Mr Fahrenheit
Valar Morghulis
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At Sharks Ice its 9700 a season for the team, im not asking for goalies to pay full price but a little will help. Pretty much every season we have to take someone who doesnt belong in our league just to keep fees to just above 600 a person
Its the largest league by like 2000 people, finding goalies is not a problem, except for afternoon pickups. There is a huge demand and even with 4 sheets of ice the supply is low so the prices are high
Its the largest league by like 2000 people, finding goalies is not a problem, except for afternoon pickups. There is a huge demand and even with 4 sheets of ice the supply is low so the prices are high
$9700 holy crap is that a lot! How many games is that? I assume for that price it covers a full calendar year and is at least 40 games regular season.
Here in Chicago we pay about $4500 per team give or take.
How many teams are in that Sharks league? I can't believe its that much bigger than any league, but maybe it is. Our biggest league in Chicago is at Johnny's Ice house and has 131 teams spread out over 9 divisions.
Mr Fahrenheit
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http://adulthockey.usahockey.com/news_article/show/285092?referrer_id=708015 which would be going off leagues that use USA hockey
It covers 1 season. Like I said in earlier posts, there are 2 seasons. One is 16 games the other is 22 games, both have 2 preseason and playoffs if you make it
I had to do it manually but I think I counted 167 teams
Math works out about the same. New gear required every 300-500 games/ice times.
NORY
Registered User
My position has already been stated earlier in the thread, but just to add to conversation. I see a lot of goalies saying their gear lasts 4 years playing 3 to 4 times a week and then comparing that to league fees, but not considering that if a player played 3 to 4 times a week over 4 years it would cost $10,200 to $13,600. I think those numbers are a better comparable.
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well i was wondering when someone would put that forth, the fact that not all, but many goalies play more then once a week.
Part of that is a necessity. Around here part of it is demand as well. Thing is, imo, you only play once a week your timing stinks. It's different then skating out in that regard. More akin to a batter getting his timing down by getting batting practice sorta thing.
Gear for a player though does just flat out last longer. Other then sticks my gear for skating out will last darn near forever. Really the only thing that legit wears out in player gear are the palms of your gloves. Pants/Shin pads/elbows/helmet. I'm still using the same gear over 15 years later and I've have some serious pond hockey sessions in those where you are on the ice for hours and hours at a time.
I think the main thing I am disputing is that I'm hearing some saying that a goalie does not have a significantly higher gear cost per game then a skater. I disagree on that regard.
Farenheit, WOW that is crazy expensive!
I mean 9700 for 24 game works out to be 405 a game per team! that's some damn expensive ice.
In the pittsburgh area the cost per game per team works out to be 100-150 depending on which rink you're at. It can range a little higher, but that's going off Ice Castle and Pittsburgh Ice arena.
So considering the crazy price you are paying I can get why you'd want the goalie to help out for the league fee. But in the north east area cost is significantly less for the ice. Do they have liquid gold in the water they are using?
Part of that is a necessity. Around here part of it is demand as well. Thing is, imo, you only play once a week your timing stinks. It's different then skating out in that regard. More akin to a batter getting his timing down by getting batting practice sorta thing.
Gear for a player though does just flat out last longer. Other then sticks my gear for skating out will last darn near forever. Really the only thing that legit wears out in player gear are the palms of your gloves. Pants/Shin pads/elbows/helmet. I'm still using the same gear over 15 years later and I've have some serious pond hockey sessions in those where you are on the ice for hours and hours at a time.
I think the main thing I am disputing is that I'm hearing some saying that a goalie does not have a significantly higher gear cost per game then a skater. I disagree on that regard.
Farenheit, WOW that is crazy expensive!
I mean 9700 for 24 game works out to be 405 a game per team! that's some damn expensive ice.
In the pittsburgh area the cost per game per team works out to be 100-150 depending on which rink you're at. It can range a little higher, but that's going off Ice Castle and Pittsburgh Ice arena.
So considering the crazy price you are paying I can get why you'd want the goalie to help out for the league fee. But in the north east area cost is significantly less for the ice. Do they have liquid gold in the water they are using?
Beezeral
Registered User
- Mar 1, 2010
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it depends. if he is a random guy who got thrown onto your team so you could enter the tournament, you should cover his cost. If it is a guy you normally play with, he should share in the fee
I'm of the belief that goalies should not pay. That's how we do it on every team I've played on since starting up my men's league career 15 years ago. But, I don't think it has anything to do with the price of goalie equipment.
For us, its about the unfair responsibility you put on the goalie of a men's league team. There's a lot of pressure on the goalies to attend every game. It's not easy finding a sub sometimes here in Chicago especially for a late game. As a skater, if I have a late game and 8:00 rolls around and I'm just too tired and don't feel like going, its not the end of the world if I make myself a late scratch. Try pulling that as a goalie and see what happens?
For me and my teammates, its about showing appreciation and respect for the guy who has the most important job on the team.
For us, its about the unfair responsibility you put on the goalie of a men's league team. There's a lot of pressure on the goalies to attend every game. It's not easy finding a sub sometimes here in Chicago especially for a late game. As a skater, if I have a late game and 8:00 rolls around and I'm just too tired and don't feel like going, its not the end of the world if I make myself a late scratch. Try pulling that as a goalie and see what happens?
For me and my teammates, its about showing appreciation and respect for the guy who has the most important job on the team.
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