Post-Game Talk: Shootout Win

[Dotter]

I want to watch more Red Wings hockey - if we make the playoffs I get to watch more Red Wings hockey. We should make the playoffs.

This team has the parts to be a good team, just got to put it all together somehow.

I'm with you.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

A team wins a Stanley Cup every single year.

Only 4 teams in the history of hockey have EVER achieved a playoff streak this long.

Revisit the thought 50 years from now how important an individual Cup win was, versus how important one of the longest playoff streaks of all time (especially during the start of forced parity) was.

What brings you more euphoria? Winning the cup or clinching a playoff spot? The last time I looked the league handed the big trophy to the team that won the Stanley Cup playoffs, not the team with the longest playoff streak. Do you expect to see a banner in the rafters of LCA commemorating the streak? Do you think fans of Pitt or Chicago are impressed by the bragging rights that come with the streak?

The streak is just a giant participation ribbon to me...something to make fans feel better (and market tickets) when the team ultimately did not come close to achieving the ultimate goal that every team sets out for. If we were actually in contention each year for the Cup (something that is admittedly impossible) we wouldn't be talking about the streak, we would be talking about the ****ing Cup.

I don't fault people who want to watch as much Wings hockey as possible each year. I am, however, very concerned that fans are apparently ok with this new, mediocre standard.

 

[14ari13]

A team wins a Stanley Cup every single year.

Only 4 teams in the history of hockey have EVER achieved a playoff streak this long.

Revisit the thought 50 years from now how important an individual Cup win was, versus how important one of the longest playoff streaks of all time (especially during the start of forced parity) was.

I think the mng thinks this way too.

I want to watch more Red Wings hockey - if we make the playoffs I get to watch more Red Wings hockey. We should make the playoffs.

This team has the parts to be a good team, just got to put it all together somehow.

+1

 

[FlashyG]

What brings you more euphoria? Winning the cup or clinching a playoff spot? The last time I looked the league handed the big trophy to the team that won the Stanley Cup playoffs, not the team with the longest playoff streak. Do you expect to see a banner in the rafters of LCA commemorating the streak? Do you think fans of Pitt or Chicago are impressed by the bragging rights that come with the streak?

The streak is just a giant participation ribbon to me...something to make fans feel better (and market tickets) when the team ultimately did not come close to achieving the ultimate goal that every team sets out for. If we were actually in contention each year for the Cup (something that is admittedly impossible) we wouldn't be talking about the streak, we would be talking about the ****ing Cup.

I don't fault people who want to watch as much Wings hockey as possible each year. I am, however, very concerned that fans are apparently ok with this new, mediocre standard.

I think you're vastly under valuing a streak like this.

If the Wings were to break the Bruins streak of 29 straight years that will be a record that will last forever. Along with Gretzky's assists and points records it will be a record that will be looked at as otherworldy considering the last half of it happened in a league designed to prevent such streaks from being possible.

Everyone on this board and in every other board here would rather their team win the cup than just see them make the playoffs each year but the day I start hoping the team loses is the day I no longer consider myself a fan.

 

[vladdy16]

Last night was really encouraging to me. Personally as a GM I would happily trade down in the draft to get current players playoff experience. That philosophy maybe made it easier for me to get down with the wings effort last night, but that doesn't mean I've completely dismissed the possibility that Blashill and Ausmus are puppet fronts as the Wings and Tigers are gutted into an efficient cashcow.

It doesn't mean I'm ok with mediocrity or would stick around just to have a hot dog in the future. But, especially in light of the last week or so, I'm happy to say that the jury is still out. Worst comes to worst, I had an absolute blast rooting for Calgary 2 years ago, Stevies got a team in tampa, Nill's in Dallas, we're not hostages here.

 

[Flowah]

First of all, I think that's a ridiculous duality.

It's not a "duality." It's fact. We lack the elite players that the vast majority of cup winners have. The best way to get those players is by picking high. The only way to pick high is to suck and get a high draft pick or to make some ridiculous trade where you get one from another team but how often does that happen?

I disagree with the prevailing opinion people around here have that "a bubble team will necessarily stay a bubble team forever" and "a tanking team will necessarily win a Cup in a few years".

Forever? No. You can get lucky. But it's pretty damn lucky. You're counting on a huge amount of luck instead of taking your destiny into your own hands. This is again with the absolutes that are the only truly ridiculous thing around here. As if we're talking about guarantees and not probabilities.

The stats speak for themselves.

Others had a very good plan and a very good execution, but they still had to lose because only one team can win. A lot of **** happens, and you absolutely cannot simplify to "mediocrity leads to mediocrity; tank leads to good".

Sorry but are you claiming this is a well built team with good players to compete with the top teams in the league?

Maybe not winning this year, but maybe holding the streak for 3 more years followed by another Cup in 2020 or 2021.

You think this current approach is going to make us competitive in 3 years? Hahahahahaha. Why have the last 5 years been so awful?

If our coaching didn't disappoint, if our goaltending didn't disappoint, if every single one of our defensive draft picks didn't disappoint. If we landed Suter or someone else. If if if. There are a lot of ifs, but they are realistic ifs. I feel that they are more realistic than the idea that all we need to do is play bad on purpose for a few minutes and all of a sudden we will have McDavid and win another 4 Cups.

How is talking about "landing Suter," something that is years past, realistic in any way, shape, or form?

Our goaltending was great last year and we still sucked. Our defensive picks aren't disappointing, they're exactly what you'd expect given where we draft. The statistics are clear. From where we pick in the drafts it's hard to land impact players. Especially if you keep giving picks away at the TDL to acquire guys like Cole or Legwand for that "vaunted" playoff streak.

You think it's more realistic to land elite players later in the draft, which is where you're condemning us to pick with your wish to make the playoffs, than it is earlier in the draft, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

I want to watch more Red Wings hockey - if we make the playoffs I get to watch more Red Wings hockey. We should make the playoffs.

5-7 extra games is worth handcuffing yourself for more years?

This team has the parts to be a good team, just got to put it all together somehow.

Do you really think this team has the parts to compete with teams like Chicago and Pittsburgh? Well hats off to you but I don't think that's an opinion based in reality.

 

[Shaman464]

I think you're vastly under valuing a streak like this.

If the Wings were to break the Bruins streak of 29 straight years that will be a record that will last forever. Along with Gretzky's assists and points records it will be a record that will be looked at as otherworldy considering the last half of it happened in a league designed to prevent such streaks from being possible.

Everyone on this board and in every other board here would rather their team win the cup than just see them make the playoffs each year but the day I start hoping the team loses is the day I no longer consider myself a fan.

I am a fan. I want the team to lose. Why? For the same reason I run. I like food. I like to have a good physique. Therefore I need to pay for it. I love the Wings, I want to see them win a cup, therefore they will have to pay for it. With the dumpster fire cap situation (which should be enough reason to doubt Holland is competent at his job at this point), the lack of top end talent anywhere in the farm system, and an aging core surrounded by mediocre talent, it's time for the team to consider its priorities. As it stands today, there is no realistic way this team competes for a cup in the near future. They really don't have the money to fill their biggest gaps with UFAs, they don't have the talent that high draft picks would secure, and they have a timid man running the team who seems allergic to making trades. This adds up to a dangerous recipe of having a team that will repeat the mistakes of teams like Calgary in the mid to late 00s.

In the end I would rather see a bold plan from Holland than him rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[14ari13]

3 huge wins

Beating the champs, despite being down 2-0.
Beating Price 1-0.
Beating bruins after being down by 3 goals twice.

This is a huge experience for young players.

 

[Flowah]

I am a fan. I want the team to lose. Why? For the same reason I run. I like food. I like to have a good physique. Therefore I need to pay for it. I love the Wings, I want to see them win a cup, therefore they will have to pay for it. With the dumpster fire cap situation (which should be enough reason to doubt Holland is competent at his job at this point), the lack of top end talent anywhere in the farm system, and an aging core surrounded by mediocre talent, it's time for the team to consider its priorities. As it stands today, there is no realistic way this team competes for a cup in the near future. They really don't have the money to fill their biggest gaps with UFAs, they don't have the talent that high draft picks would secure, and they have a timid man running the team who seems allergic to making trades. This adds up to a dangerous recipe of having a team that will repeat the mistakes of teams like Calgary in the mid to late 00s.

"Realistic" way is the key word there. Sure we could find another Datsyuk and Lidstrom with a 3rd rounder or something and then yeah we're contenders again without ever tanking. It's not very realistic though. You're banking on a LOT of luck. Depending on how long it takes to get that lucky, our most talented players like Larkin, Mantha, AA, are all gonna be getting older and potentially past their prime. Most forwards hit it by 25. They're already 22.

As for money and UFAs, it's become clear that UFAs just can't be relied upon to be the way you build a team. How many 1C and 1D make it to UFA? Even if we had the money, which we don't, we couldn't get one.

You can sit around wringing your hands about "we could find someone in the later rounds!" and "it's possible someone becomes UFA and we sign them!" But if you're being honest about the chances of that it's just not a viable method to winning the cup. The only honest position you can have with that philosophy is that making the playoffs is the most important thing to you. Because if it's about giving yourself the best chance at a cup we're simply not doing it right.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think you're vastly under valuing a streak like this.

If the Wings were to break the Bruins streak of 29 straight years that will be a record that will last forever. Along with Gretzky's assists and points records it will be a record that will be looked at as otherworldy considering the last half of it happened in a league designed to prevent such streaks from being possible.

Everyone on this board and in every other board here would rather their team win the cup than just see them make the playoffs each year but the day I start hoping the team loses is the day I no longer consider myself a fan.

How long do you run on that hamster wheel before you decide that we aren't getting anywhere?

I have always wanted the Wings to make the playoffs, but I don't want them to be afraid to miss the playoffs. As soon as the playoffs become the ultimate goal people will start expecting less than they should from the players and organization.

 

[FlashyG]

How long do you run on that hamster wheel before you decide that we aren't getting anywhere?

I have always wanted the Wings to make the playoffs, but I don't want them to be afraid to miss the playoffs. As soon as the playoffs become the ultimate goal people will start expecting less than they should from the players and organization.

Who ever said that making the playoffs is the ultimate goal? Making the playoffs is a goal, not the ultimate one. In my opinion its the dividing line between a successful season and a failed season and that every team should strive for the playoffs every single year.

I'm proud of the fact that in my lifetime my favorite team has had near constant success without the need to resort to intentionally losing in order to get good again. Instead of following the crowd the Wings have up until recently been the model other franchises aspired to be.

I've lived in a city for most of my life that has had nothing but futility in nearly all of its pro teams and I can tell you from first hand experience that losing to get good again isn't fun. Even after years of futility it will take luck just to get back to being a bubble team.

So to answer your question more simply. I'm happy to stay on the hamster wheel indefinitely. To me that's what being a fan is all about. No matter how good or bad the team is, I'll be here running on this wheel.

 

[Red Stanley]

People who bemoan the streak often argue they'd rather be in the conversation as contenders as opposed to losing in the first round. The operative word here being "conversation", can you please explain to me the difference between someone talking about you as a legitimate contender vs someone talking about a historic playoff streak? They're still talking about you in a positive way and it's still just talking. You wish the streak would end already, like it should've ended years ago, so we can substitute one conversation for another. You qualify one as worth having, while dismissing the other.

Let me put things in perspective by predicting the inevitable future, something you can't do when it comes to winning even a single championship. Here it goes: people will be talking about this streak for as long as the sport exists. You hear about it now every single time a Wings' game is broadcast as you have for years. You rarely ever hear about 2008.

 

[Shaman464]

People who bemoan the streak often argue they'd rather be in the conversation as contenders as opposed to losing in the first round. The operative word here being "conversation", can you please explain to me the difference between someone talking about you as a legitimate contender vs someone talking about a historic playoff streak? They're still talking about you in a positive way and it's still just talking. You wish the streak would end already, like it should've ended years ago, so we can substitute one conversation for another. You qualify one as worth having, while dismissing the other.

Let me put things in perspective by predicting the inevitable future, something you can't do when it comes to winning even a single championship. Here it goes: people will be talking about this streak for as long as the sport exists. You hear about it now every single time a Wings' game is broadcast as you have for years. You rarely ever hear about 2008.

I don't hear Boston's streak talked about that much. They do talk a lot about the cups they won though.

 

[jkutswings]

When people talk about the historical success of Boston and Montreal, do they speak of their playoff streaks, or their championships?

A decade from now, The Streak will be closer to forgotten than hailed.

 

[The Zermanator]

People who bemoan the streak often argue they'd rather be in the conversation as contenders as opposed to losing in the first round. The operative word here being "conversation", can you please explain to me the difference between someone talking about you as a legitimate contender vs someone talking about a historic playoff streak? They're still talking about you in a positive way and it's still just talking. You wish the streak would end already, like it should've ended years ago, so we can substitute one conversation for another. You qualify one as worth having, while dismissing the other.

Let me put things in perspective by predicting the inevitable future, something you can't do when it comes to winning even a single championship. Here it goes: people will be talking about this streak for as long as the sport exists. You hear about it now every single time a Wings' game is broadcast as you have for years. You rarely ever hear about 2008.

There's a HUGE difference between 'the streak' and actually contending. If you lose in 4-6 playoff games but the streak continues, how much have you really gained? 'The streak' doesn't make it any more than 4-6 extra games. And often not the greatest ones at that. Contending means pushing through the first round, pushing through the second round, grinding into the later rounds, stakes rising and pressure mounting with every game. Remember that?

 

[Red Stanley]

I don't hear Boston's streak talked about that much.

They do talk about it and will be talking about it forever. They hardly talk about their last Cup win, though.

 

[Flowah]

So to answer your question more simply. I'm happy to stay on the hamster wheel indefinitely. To me that's what being a fan is all about. No matter how good or bad the team is, I'll be here running on this wheel.

Why are you talking about this? Are we not all fans here? Are you saying some of us aren't fans?

We're just in disagreement about what we want. Some of us want the team to win a cup. Others are content to see them just make the playoffs.

The issue here is with people who think that just making the playoffs and being competitive for the cup can be done at the same time. It cannot be barring a miracle.

They do talk about it and will be talking about it forever. They hardly talk about their last Cup win, though.

Maybe teams should prioritize streaks over cups then. We should start selling our future draft picks to continue the streak. Because we're definitely not making it at this rate.

 

[Sadekuuro]

They do talk about it and will be talking about it forever. They hardly talk about their last Cup win, though.

What? I know several Bruins fans and I don't think I've ever heard a single one of them mention their playoff streak. Plenty of talk about 2011 and 2013 though.

 

[Frk It]

I guess the ironic thing is regardless of what you want both paths most likely lead to the same place. It's just how fast do you wanna get there.

Just understand you wanting to cling to the streak longer is also just kicking the rebuild farther down the line. The best time to plan a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.

The only reason I wouldn't mind making the playoffs this year despite the almost certain 4 game sweep is because this is not a great draft to start a rebuild with. Starting next year we really have no excuse any longer. Unless Sidney Crosby demands to be traded to Detroit next summer.

 

[Frk It]

Why are you talking about this? Are we not all fans here? Are you saying some of us aren't fans?

I really didn't take it that way. But that's just me.

 

[Red Stanley]

There's a HUGE difference between 'the streak' and actually contending. If you lose in 4-6 playoff games but the streak continues, how much have you really gained? 'The streak' doesn't make it any more than 4-6 extra games. And often not the greatest ones at that. Contending means pushing through the first round, pushing through the second round, grinding into the later rounds, stakes rising and pressure mounting with every game. Remember that?

Nothing I said would indicate I hate winning or going deep into the playoffs. You can't convince me of this certain future success the streak is delaying.

 

[Red Stanley]

Maybe teams should prioritize streaks over cups then. We should start selling our future draft picks to continue the streak. Because we're definitely not making it at this rate.

Not too many teams I see on a 25-year playoff streak these days, or ever. If teams could predict winning a championship with any certainty, especially teams on the decline or in the middle of rebuilds, they probably would. We're likely not winning the Cup this year, but we do have a shot at continuing the streak. I've said before we should have been trending more heavily toward a youth movement while trying to maintain it, so I don't know whom you're talking to when you mention selling off prospects and picks, because it's certainly not me.

 

[KJoe88]

Just because someone shares a different perspective, one that does NOT correlate with yours, it doesn't mean it is out 'this reality'. Whatever the hell that means.

This team has VASTLY underachieved this year. And yeah, the team isn't too far off from being very competitive. The team has demonstrated that it's capable of playing well against good teams.

And for those who continuously bring up Chicago, Pitts and LA - we've shown we can play against in the playoffs and regular season. The series' against TB were a lot closer than some of you will ever admit. Sadly.

I hope we keep chugging along. Mantha is playing well. AA is getting better. Nyquist and Tatar are starting to score again. And Vanek continues to play consistently. If the defense even plays mediocre and the goalies actually stop pucks - this team can get a lot higher.

Also, for those mentioning past cup runs for other teams - beating Boston's streak will probably never be touched again. We also have won cups. Pre cap and post cap. Our '08 and '09 runs were probably the BEST since. We were banged up as hell in '09 and deserved a better fait. Saying how other fan bases (like I care about other fan bases) is a weak, WEAK argument especially considering our previous success.

 

[Red Stanley]

I guess the ironic thing is regardless of what you want both paths most likely lead to the same place. It's just how fast do you wanna get there.

Just understand you wanting to cling to the streak longer is also just kicking the rebuild farther down the line. The best time to plan a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is today.

The only reason I wouldn't mind making the playoffs this year despite the almost certain 4 game sweep is because this is not a great draft to start a rebuild with. Starting next year we really have no excuse any longer. Unless Sidney Crosby demands to be traded to Detroit next summer.

I'm not arguing against the inevitability of rebuilding and missing the playoffs. I'm arguing against the idea of ending up there on purpose for the sake of this imaginary glorious near future.

 

[TheOtherOne]

It's not a "duality." It's fact. We lack the elite players that the vast majority of cup winners have. The best way to get those players is by picking high. The only way to pick high is to suck and get a high draft pick or to make some ridiculous trade where you get one from another team but how often does that happen?

You nitpick point after point and completely miss the big picture. Let me boil it down if my previous post was too long.

Yes, I rely on luck in my hopes to win a Cup.

So does every other team, no matter what.

Your tank scenario gets you no guarantees. You can easily tank and have bad luck and miss the Cup and have to start all over again. So we're both relying on luck. That's why I choose to root for wins, and don't ****ing try to tell me my way is wrong.