Online Series: Shogun (D+ and FX Feb 2024)

[Seattle King]

This is one of my favorite books of all time. Was wondering what took so long for someone to do it as a series during this modern golden age of TV.
Read the book again last week to prepare. If you have not read the book you are missing out on an experience that I highly recommend.
The first two episodes were excellent and I love the fact they are mostly speaking Japanese, it really jacks up the realism and helps with the suspension of disbelief.
Its following the book pretty closely, other than moving some scenes around chronologically, which I also dont mind.
The guy who plays the Anjin-san reminds me of young Liam Neeson but with Richard Burton's voice.
I was seriously going to cancel Hulu until this show came out and now I will be keeping it through April.

 

[Albatros]

I really like how authentic and historical it feels. Disney may be the parent company, but it doesn't look or feel anything like a typical Disney series so far. Not once did I roll my eyes at dialogue or characters that seemed out of place for 1600 Japan and, like the above article suggests, it seems like a series that the Japanese may like as much as us Westerners. Speaking of dialogue, I was surprised and relieved that most of it is in Japanese. I sort of expected the show to be almost entirely in English and to be a bit bothered by that immersion breaker. You have to be OK with subtitles if you're going to watch this. As a history fan, I also liked the attention put on the Catholics and Protestants hating each other, since religious motives are often left out of historical movies and shows, even when conflicts were based on them.

Well, it's like the Japanese making a TV series about the US Civil War based on a Korean novel written by a layperson that made experiences with the American military during the Korean War and then exporting the whole thing to America. The production values can be what they may, but it's much harder to maintain suspension of disbelief when you've learned extensively about the real historical background beforehand. When you haven't, then it's a different story.

 

[Osprey]

From what I've seen this seems to be the case. Though finishing the second episode tonight I wonder how the Portuguese feel about it, especially when unlike with Japanese they're frequently 'talking' in Portuguese but it's just English coming out. Can't win them all I guess

Yeah, it occurred to me after I wrote that the Japanese speaking English would've been an immersion breaker for me that the Portuguese speaking English apparently isn't. I suppose that it's because the language barrier is much more important to represent between the Westerners and the Japanese in this particular story.

Well, it's like the Japanese making a TV series about the US Civil War based on a Korean novel written by a layperson that made experiences with the American military during the Korean War and then exporting the whole thing to America. The production values can be what they may, but it's much harder to maintain suspension of disbelief when you've learned extensively about the real historical background beforehand. When you haven't, then it's a different story.

That's sort of the point. In spite of it being a "Western" representation of Japanese culture, the Japanese might like it because it seems to be accurate and respectful, much like Clint Eastwood's Letters From Iwo Jima...

The film was far more commercially successful in Japan than in the U.S., ranking number 1 for five weeks, and receiving a warm reception from both Japanese audiences and critics. The Japanese critics noted that Clint Eastwood presented Kuribayashi as a "caring, erudite commander of Japan's Iwo Jima garrison, along with Japanese soldiers in general, in a sensitive, respectful way." Also, the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shimbun noted that the movie is clearly "distinguishable" from previous Hollywood movies, which tended to portray Japanese characters with non-Japanese actors (e.g., Chinese-Americans, and other Asian-Americans). Consequently, incorrect Japanese grammar and non-native accents were conspicuous in those former films, jarring their realism for the Japanese audience. In contrast, most Japanese roles in Letters from Iwo Jima are played by native Japanese actors. Also, the article praised the film's new approach, as it is scripted with excellent research into Japanese society at that time. According to the article, previous Hollywood movies describing Japan were based on the stereotypical images of Japanese society, which looked "weird" to native Japanese audiences. Letters from Iwo Jima is remarkable as the movie that tries to escape from the stereotypes. Owing to the lack of stereotypes, Letters from Iwo Jima was appreciated by Japanese critics and audiences.

 

[Albatros]

That's sort of the point. In spite of it being a "Western" representation of Japanese culture, the Japanese might like it because it seems to be accurate and respectful, much like Clint Eastwood's Letters From Iwo Jima...

More like a story where the US President Absalom Liverpool has a Civil War adventure with the Underground Railroad leader Harmony Nutman and the Siamese twins Chai and Sai Tucker. Could be fun, but weird and not much historical accuracy to be had beyond figuring out what the characters should be wearing. Though a lot more action than the average taiga drama surely.

The original 1980 series flopped rather badly in Japan despite exceptionally being filmed in the country using real locations as opposed to Canada as is the case with this new one. Because it's Disney and has a humongous budget it's guaranteed to do better commercially, but it has no substance to enter any kind of meaningful historical film canon.

What was different with Eastwood is that he based his depiction of a sensitive historical topic on Japanese non-fiction books and at least somewhat contributed to a much longed for dialogue after a lengthy history of Hollywood war films that had mostly enhanced preexisting stereotypes affecting cultural ties between the countries.

 

[Osprey]

More like a story where the US President Absalom Liverpool has a Civil War adventure with the Underground Railroad leader Harmony Nutman and the Siamese twins Chai and Sai Tucker. Could be fun, but weird and not much historical accuracy to be had beyond figuring out what the characters should be wearing. Though a lot more action than the average taiga drama surely.

The original 1980 series flopped rather badly in Japan despite exceptionally being filmed in the country using real locations as opposed to Canada as is the case with this new one. Because it's Disney and has a humongous budget it's guaranteed to do better commercially, but it has no substance to enter any kind of meaningful historical film canon.

What was different with Eastwood is that he based his depiction of a sensitive historical topic on Japanese non-fiction books and at least somewhat contributed to a much longed for dialogue after a lengthy history of Hollywood war films that had mostly enhanced preexisting stereotypes affecting cultural ties between the countries.

You seem to be overreacting to my use of the word "historical." I was referring to the historical details and meant that the series feels authentic to the time period. I know that it's a fictional story about fictional characters. So do the Japanese, I imagine, yet they appear to be enjoying the series, as the article mentions. They also love their Samurai films and TV series, despite those being largely fictional, as well.

 

[John Price]

Letters from Iwo Jima was another acclaimed movie about Japan which was pretty accurate and told the other side of the story, I really enjoyed that film as a look into how they fought for their country in a losing battle.

Shogun is no different, there is a lot of dedication to authentic Japanese history and it shows

 

[John Price]

I read on other boards and perhaps this one too that the whole Portuguese speaking English thing is kind of weird but again if they didn't do it, there'd be people speaking Japanese and Portuguese to their own factions and we'd see almost no English

The only blemish in an otherwise perfectly done series

 

[Jovavic]

I read on other boards and perhaps this one too that the whole Portuguese speaking English thing is kind of weird but again if they didn't do it, there'd be people speaking Japanese and Portuguese to their own factions and we'd see almost no English

The only blemish in an otherwise perfectly done series

I've seen that in shows before, particularly Vikings, where Ragnar is at the English court around a table and everyone is speaking in a foreign language with subtitles and then mid conversation they change to just speaking English

 

[Randy Butternubs]

It's like the "Russian" in the Chernobyl mini-series. I get it and I don't mind it.

 

[NyQuil]

I've seen that in shows before, particularly Vikings, where Ragnar is at the English court around a table and everyone is speaking in a foreign language with subtitles and then mid conversation they change to just speaking English

Or they do the funky transition using a wink-wink camera effect to the viewer.

 

[Osprey]

This series has a similar moment early in the second episode, when we get a close-up of Blackthorne and an audio cue, then he and Taranaga continue conversing in different languages, but seemingly without any more need for translation. It was obviously for the sake of expediency, since having everything that they said translated was seriously slowing the scene down and would've eventually made the series unnecessarily long. It seems like a clever solution and could mean that they don't have to accelerate one learning the other's language as much as other shows and movies do.

 

[Jovavic]

Episode 3 is up on Hulu, I haven't watched it yet, I will in a few hours.

Edit: watched it, awesome, the actress that plays Mariko is a stand out among the great cast

 

[Dubi Doo]

Damn. This feels like an HBO quality show. I thought it'd be way more campy, but the first two episodes were awesome.

 

[NyQuil]

Third episode also solid.

Good blend of intrigue and action sequences.

 

[LarKing]

Another great episode. John has chemistry with everyone he interacts with. Rodrigues, Marino, and now Taranaga have all had really good moments with him. I'm not familiar with the actor outside of this show but he's fantastic imo.

Also found it interesting from a bit of googling that John's character is inspired by the real life first English person to get to Japan - William Adams.

 

[The Macho King]

A lot of the issues with Shogun reflect 1975 sensibilities more so than


Or they do the funky transition using a wink-wink camera effect to the viewer.

I mean - you hire Sean Connery to hear Sean Connery speak, not to read his subtitles.

Different movies handle language differently, and all I care about is that it's done well. Death of Stalin just has them using their regular voices. Some have them take on the accent but speak in English (I tend to hate this one). Some have the native language but subtitled. They can all work.

[edit: I also really like the way the Handmaiden handles the subtitles - having Japanese and Korean in different colors because the language the characters are speaking are really relevant to the character and what they're doing at that moment. The switch from the two guys in the basement at the end from Japanese to Korean... so good]

Anyway vis a vis this show - I literally watched Sunshine the night before and thought Tokugawa looked *a lot* like the Captain from Sunshine. Had to look it up but yeah - same dude.

Watch Sunshine - that movie slaps.

 

[NyQuil]

Anyway vis a vis this show - I literally watched Sunshine the night before and thought Tokugawa looked *a lot* like the Captain from Sunshine. Had to look it up but yeah - same dude.

Watch Sunshine - that movie slaps.

I really liked Sunshine right up until the confrontation at the end which I felt was unnecessary.

First time I saw Saneda was in The Last Samurai where he has a kick ass role. He was also in Lost in the final season and in Avengers: Endgame where he plays a Yakuza with a katana that Hawkeye goes after. Also in John Wick: Chapter 4 as the manager of the Japan Continental Hotel. Also in The Wolverine with Hugh Jackman where once again he has katana in hand.

He’s a bit typecast as a sword wielding dude but he does it with such gravitas that you don’t really tire of it.

I’m glad he’s got a role where he can really sink his teeth in.

He also has a bit of a Sean Bean thing happening.

I guess we’ll see if it holds up. (I won’t spoil either way!)

 

[The Macho King]

I really liked Sunshine right up until the confrontation at the end which I felt was unnecessary.

First time I saw Saneda was in The Last Samurai where he has a kick ass role. He was also in Lost in the final season and in Avengers: Endgame where he plays a Yakuza with a katana that Hawkeye goes after. Also in John Wick: Chapter 4 as the manager of the Japan Continental Hotel. Also in The Wolverine with Hugh Jackman where once again he has katana in hand.

He’s a bit typecast as a sword wielding dude but he does it with such gravitas that you don’t really tire of it.

I’m glad he’s got a role where he can really sink his teeth in.

He also has a bit of a Sean Bean thing happening.

I guess we’ll see if it holds up. (I won’t spoil either way!)

Lol I read the book like 20 years ago. Read all of them actually - would kind of be interested in seeing them do the others in that quasi-series.

Agreed on Sunshine - still liked the end but dropped it from one of my favorite sci fis of all time to "really good movie".

 

[NyQuil]

Agreed on Sunshine - still liked the end but dropped it from one of my favorite sci fis of all time to "really good movie".

Up until that point, with such a stellar cast, varied nationalities, uncertain motivations, I really didn't know what was going to happen.

One of the more underrated science-fiction films of the last 20 years or so.

 

[Osprey]

That was an action-packed episode. I'm appreciating the Yabushige character (Toranaga's vassal) more with each episode. I'm not sure whether to like or dislike him because he's seemingly playing both sides. With the other characters being obviously good or bad, the series appears to ride a lot on Yabushige because he's the wild card that can greatly affect the story at any moment, depending on which side he's helping. The actor is doing a great job of selling that duplicity, as well.

 

[Mantis]

Completed episode 1, the nude scene had me applauding great moment

You are a very weird boy

 

[LarKing]

That was a fun, action-packed episode. I'm appreciating the Yabushige character (Toranaga's vassal) more with each episode. I'm not sure whether to like or dislike him because he's seemingly playing both sides. With the other characters being obviously good or bad, the series appears to ride a lot on Yabushige because he's the wild card that can greatly affect the story at any moment, depending on which side he's helping. The actor is doing a great job of selling that duplicity, as well.

He's the little finger of the show seemingly

 

[Osprey]

‘Shogun’ Bosses Detail “Painstaking Process” to Re-Create Feudal Japan and Likelihood of Season 2

Husband and wife duo Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo were involved in every aspect of adapting James Clavell's 1,000-page novel into 10 episodes of epic TV — and they also had two babies during the making of the show: "That's why you see these lines on our faces."

www.hollywoodreporter.com

With the FX limited series Shogun, Disney might just have its biggest worldwide streaming hit to date. The first episode of the lavish period epic racked up 9 million streaming views globally, topping the latest season premieres of The Bear and Fargo, and the buzz around the show has only grown since. Shogun has been especially praised — in Japan as well as the U.S. — for the cultural accuracy and ravishing detail of its world-building, taking viewers into an alluring and reasonably convincing version of 17th century feudal Japan.

 

[Knave]

‘Shogun’ Bosses Detail “Painstaking Process” to Re-Create Feudal Japan and Likelihood of Season 2

Husband and wife duo Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo were involved in every aspect of adapting James Clavell's 1,000-page novel into 10 episodes of epic TV — and they also had two babies during the making of the show: "That's why you see these lines on our faces."

www.hollywoodreporter.com

That's good news, hopefully the show keeps getting more people interested and picks up.

For a show that's half in Japanese with subtitles (or a dub if you dig into settings) to debut and do better than many English language shows and only really be blown out of the water by Marvel and Star Wars is impressive.

 

[HanSolo]

Really enjoying it so far. My brother came over somewhat late in the evening and we were going to watch something else but I suggested Shogun. Close to the end of episode 2 I indicated I might go to bed but I powered through to see episode 3 and get all caught up.

Very well made show. Strong dialogue, good characterization, visually stunning sets, strong acting.

Not a lot to complain about really. If there's anything it would be 1) Blackthorne seems to have an unbelievably high degree of luck on his side in a lot of situations 2) it's a little too obvious that Blackthorne and Mariko will get romantically involved in some way. But these are totally forgivable tropes.

I really liked Sunshine right up until the confrontation at the end which I felt was unnecessary.

First time I saw Saneda was in The Last Samurai where he has a kick ass role. He was also in Lost in the final season and in Avengers: Endgame where he plays a Yakuza with a katana that Hawkeye goes after. Also in John Wick: Chapter 4 as the manager of the Japan Continental Hotel. Also in The Wolverine with Hugh Jackman where once again he has katana in hand.

He’s a bit typecast as a sword wielding dude but he does it with such gravitas that you don’t really tire of it.

I’m glad he’s got a role where he can really sink his teeth in.

He also has a bit of a Sean Bean thing happening.

I guess we’ll see if it holds up. (I won’t spoil either way!)

He's also the samurai from Westworld S2. Typecast, yes, but it's netted him a pretty killer filmography and this show is giving him a chance to shine as a lead in a Western project.