Shero's Drafting Record 2006 - 2010

[Gurglesons]

Some of them... yes we should try to be more like them. The difference between the Pens and them are that we won the Sid lottery and were guaranteed one of Ovie/Malkin the year before that. We were "gifted" two superstar generational talents (which were Craig Patrick... Shero might have tried to go with Jack Johnson and Cam Barker).

I would love for the Pens to be able to draft like the Isles or Preds. Just because the Pens are winning doesn't excuse the fact they ****** away those drafts.

It's not one or the other. You can do both. There's teams you don't like to mention in your arguments (LA, SJ, NYR) that have blown away your way of thinking.

During this time period none of the Sharks, Rangers, or LA made it beyond the second round of the playoffs. For the most part they were either first round exits or didn't even make the playoffs. I don't see why you guys don't see the coloration between poor playoff success or no playoff success or not even making the playoffs and good drafting?

When you have higher picks, even in later rounds, it is easier to get legitimate NHL talents.

 

[Winger for Hire]

When you have higher picks, even in later rounds, it is easier to get legitimate NHL talents.

This flies in the face of you saying that anything past Round 1 is a crap shoot.

 

[Gurglesons]

This flies in the face of you saying that anything past Round 1 is a crap shoot.

I've been saying anything past round 2 is a crap shoot. It's cool, I'm done arguing this point. Shero is a terrible drafter and the fact that we had two Stanley Cup final appearances and sold off pretty much every pick in 2010 has nothing to do with it.

If we had another GM during this time we would've won the Cup and would've had Nyquist and Saad. You guys are totally right.

This is an exercise in the pointless, because you're examining one aspect of a complex machine and acting like that one aspect is easy to judge. The fact that we were in two Stanley Cup Finals, and also sold off futures to hopefully get to another in one year during the specific time being examined has nothing to do with the fact that Shero was unable to acquire NHL talent in later rounds, even though in the years when he did actually have picks like in '06 and '07, he actually did pull off some impressive picks.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Two teams make the Cup. One gets to pick 30th. One gets to pick 29th. Every single team that made a Cup Final outside of the Red Wings the two years they made it was unsuccessful in drafting a player below the second run that made an impact in the NHL. The Pens made the Finals twice between 06 - 10, that is why their draft record is so bad during 06 - 10.

When you make a Cup run you sell off players to make that Cup run. We sold off futures in 08, 09, 10 leading to our drafts being poor because we traded all of our good picks.

Chicago was not a cup contender until 2010. The Kings were certainly not a cup contender from 06 - 09, I had a 20 game package to their games. My issue with Riptide's stats is it doesn't take this into consideration. We won a Cup and went to a final two of these years, why would Shero care about the draft? We had one of the two best teams in the league.

I already proved the bolded wrong. Why do you continue to insist on lying against easily checked facts?


Your premiss is so ass backwards. Why care about drafting? Maybe to prevent the 5 years of playoff embarrassment that we've had to live through since that Cup? Maybe to surround his two franchise centers with actual top 6 players? Maybe to not HAVE to sign vet after vet to fill out a line-up?

I love your last sentence because it perfectly supports everything I've been saying. We had one of the two best teams in the league. Now we're not even in the top tier of Cup contenders. But I'm sure you don't think Shero's terrible drafting (and need to continuously move picks/prospects because almost no drafted layers paned out) has anything to do with not being a top team in the league anymore.

 

[Wes C Addle]

What's wrong with analyzing one specific aspect of a GM/Organizations job? I don't find it pointless at all. I don't believe anyone is interpreting this analysis and using it as the end all be all for how to judge Shero's entire tenure as a GM. It's easy to spout off about how crappy or great someone was at drafting without being required to provide some sort of data comparison to verify it. Maybe Rip's way of analyzing isn't perfect but it's at least a start for someone to try.

Just because Shero might've been below average at finding talent beyond the 1st round doesn't mean he didn't excel at other aspects during the same time period. He made some shrewd moves that helped get the team to 2 Cup Finals, which is great. It also seems fair to say that looking at this data, the later rounds definitely didn't seem to help the Pens build much moving forward.

It's amazing how sensitive people are about this. You know it's okay to acknowledge a weaker of area of a player's game or a coach/GM's strategy, without it being an indictment of greater proportions. Being a below average, 2nd round and beyond drafter from 2006-2010 doesn't mean Shero was a below average GM for Pittsburgh during the same time.

 

[Gurglesons]

What's wrong with analyzing one specific aspect of a GM/Organizations job? I don't find it pointless at all. I don't believe anyone is interpreting this analysis and using it as the end all be all for how to judge Shero's entire tenure as a GM. It's easy to spout off about how crappy or great someone was at drafting without being required to provide some sort of data comparison to verify it. Maybe Rip's way of analyzing isn't perfect but it's at least a start for someone to try.

Just because Shero might've been below average at finding talent beyond the 1st round doesn't mean he didn't excel at other aspects during the same time period. He made some shrewd moves that helped get the team to 2 Cup Finals, which is great. It also seems fair to say that looking at this data, the later rounds definitely didn't seem to help the Pens build much moving forward.

It's amazing how sensitive people are about this. You know it's okay to acknowledge a weaker of area of a player's game or a coach/GM's strategy, without it being an indictment of greater proportions. Being a below average, 2nd round and beyond drafter from 2006-2010 doesn't mean Shero was a below average GM for Pittsburgh during the same time.

I'm not sensitive towards it at all. Shero's main issue was that he didn't correctly draft or support the focal point of our roster. I just think this isn't an accurate way to portray his faults because he went back to back finals during these years.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'm not sensitive towards it at all. Shero's main issue was that he didn't correctly draft or support the focal point of our roster. I just think this isn't an accurate way to portray his faults because he went back to back finals during these years.

Again, winning doesn't magically make Shero any less of a bad drafter.

To further debunk your "contenders can't draft" myth, here are the guys that were drafted in late rounds by Cup finalists in the years before, during, and after their SCF appearance, with guys still on their roster bolded:

Chicago vs Philly
Saad, Shaw, Kruger

Pittsburgh vs Detroit
Bort, Muzzin, DJ, Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson

Anaheim vs Ottawa
Schultz, McMillan, Tangradi, Beleskey, Wiercioch, Smith, Gryba, Condra

Carolina vs Edmonton
Bowman, McBain, Bellemore, Petry, Peckham, VandeVelde

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, winning doesn't magically make Shero any less of a bad drafter.

To further debunk your "contenders can't draft" myth, here are the guys that were drafted in late rounds by Cup finalists in the years before, during, and after their SCF appearance, with guys still on their roster bolded:

Chicago vs Philly
Saad, Shaw, Kruger

Pittsburgh vs Detroit
Bort, Muzzin, DJ, Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson

Anaheim vs Ottawa
Schultz, McMillan, Tangradi, Beleskey, Wiercioch, Smith, Gryba, Condra

Carolina vs Edmonton
Bowman, McBain, Bellemore, Petry, Peckham, VandeVelde

I'm saying the exact year after they had a Cup final appearance.

You are right on Bellemore and Petry though, I missed those.

So Shero would be not be responsible in 08 and 09
Murray wouldn't be responsible in 07
etc.

 

[Gurglesons]

So,

06 - Edmonton vs. Carolina

2 - 45 - Jeff Petry
3 - 75 - Theo Peckham
2 - 63 - Jamie McBain

07 - Ottawa vs. Anaheim

3 - 63 - Maxime Manenauer

08/09 - Detroit vs Penguins (x2)

4 - 121 - Gustav Nyquist
2 - 60 - Tomas Tatar

10 - Chicago vs Philadelphia

4 - 119 - Tye Mcginn (maybe)

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'm saying the exact year after they had a Cup final appearance.

You are right on Bellemore and Petry though, I missed those.

So Shero would be not be responsible in 08 and 09
Murray wouldn't be responsible in 07
etc.

Looking at one year is kinda silly, but even so there were a number of guys drafted by teams that made the SCF. Still don't get why Shero should get a 5 year free pass though.