Speculation: Shero Ready to Talk Extensions for UFA Blueliners

[Waffle Fries]

Not for a 3rd pairing d-man its not. And not for Nisky playing the left side. So without getting rid of Martin or Letang, Nisky just doesn't have a spot to fill that is worth that money.

Exactly this. It's unfathomable to me that people want to re-sign him. 2.3M is already too much for a third pairing dman, and he'll be making even more on his next deal.

Shero is constantly criticized for hoarding defensemen and now people are supporting the idea of continuing to hoard them. I just don't understand.

 

[WVP]

I like Nisky, but he's a #5 here now and moving forward...

Even if Martin is gone after another year? Scuderi could potentially have his minutes reduced a bit in 2 years also. Could be looking at something like

Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Harrington/Bort/Dumo etc

if Martin leaves after his deal.

Starting to agree with jmelm that signing him makes the most sense. He is looking like a 4-5M UFA signing for sure - that's a big trade chip.

 

[SEALBound]

Please no Orpik. That extremely unfair to the young players coming up. Its gonna make them not want to resign here if they know they'll always be an afterthought fill in.

But...knowing Shero I predict:

5x5 for Orpik
4.5x4 for Niskanen

Nisky has been playing great...he's gonna get paid. Good for him.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Exactly this. It's unfathomable to me that people want to re-sign him. 2.3M is already too much for a third pairing dman, and he'll be making even more on his next deal.

Shero is constantly criticized for hoarding defensemen and now people are supporting the idea of continuing to hoard them. I just don't understand.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him extend Niskanen.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Even if Martin is gone after another year? Scuderi could potentially have his minutes reduced a bit in 2 years also. Could be looking at something like

Maatta - Letang
Scuderi - Niskanen
Despres - Harrington/Bort/Dumo etc

if Martin leaves after his deal.

Starting to agree with jmelm that signing him makes the most sense. He is looking like a 4-5M UFA signing for sure - that's a big trade chip.

2014-15

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Bort

2015-16 (sans Martin)

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Scuderi
Dumo/Harrington/D prospect who surprises-Bort

We don't need Niskanen moving forward. Not even a little bit. Re-signing him does not help our team, make us a better team, or help our prospects. It'd be a bad decision.

 

[MrBurghundy]

2014-15

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Bort

2015-16 (sans Martin)

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Scuderi
Dumo/Harrington/D prospect who surprises-Bort

We don't need Niskanen moving forward. Not even a little bit. Re-signing him does not help our team, make us a better team, or help our prospects. It'd be a bad decision.

But Shero likes his defenseman, and he seemingly likes Niskanen. He's also prone to not trusting his drafted players by making room in the lineup for them. We'll see. I don't agree with it, but I most definitely can see Niskanen coming back.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see him extend Niskanen.

I agree there is a much better chance we keep Niskanen than Orpik.

 

[Waffle Fries]

But Shero likes his defenseman, and he seemingly likes Niskanen. He's also prone to not trusting his drafted players by making room in the lineup for them. We'll see. I don't agree with it, but I most definitely can see Niskanen coming back.

Like I said, it'd be a bad decision. But it wouldn't be Shero's first.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Like I said, it'd be a bad decision. But it wouldn't be Shero's first.

it would be a less terrible decision than keeping Orpik, though. Not saying it would be good, but at least I can understand the reasoning for it.

 

[rkhum]

My thinking right now

Trade Letang for Dupuis replacement

Re-sign: Orpik to no more than three years
Nisky re-sign if it makes sense.

Let go: Engo, I think Bortozzo has surpassed him.

I do not like the idea of Orpik going, I think he and Martin are a good pair, and he is part of the core and brings a lot to the locker room.
When you lose core guys it stings, just look at the Rangers when they lost Prust and Dubinsky.
That said, no more than three, I believe Orpik would be ammendable and tentative to leave.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Orpik isn't one of our 4 best d-men.

 

[jmelm]

Please no Orpik. That extremely unfair to the young players coming up. Its gonna make them not want to resign here if they know they'll always be an afterthought fill in.

But...knowing Shero I predict:

5x5 for Orpik
4.5x4 for Niskanen

Nisky has been playing great...he's gonna get paid. Good for him.

Orpik isn't one of our 4 best d-men.

Exactly. Orpik is NOT one of our 4 best Dmen, and there is NO chance he will get a 5 year deal. IF, and I think it's a huge IF, Shero were to offering him something, it would not be more than a 3-4 year deal. I think any talk of Shero extending Orpik is pretty much posturing:


(A) make him appear really valuable to your team, so if you do trade him, you're boosting his value because you're not throwing him under the bus or saying you don't need him, and you don't send the message that he's readily available by trade.


(B) you're showing Orpik respect, but don't have a genuine intention of re-signing him. It's kind of like when you're dating and you don't want to tell the girl you don't like her, so you just make empty & unappealing offers -- sort of like what we did with Gonchar. Extend him an offer that is not insulting, but that you know he won't accept, so he won't be offended and both parties can feel good about parting ways.

 

[jmelm]

I like Nisky, but he's a #5 here now and moving forward. No way would I pay him much more than 3-3.5 for 4 years.

He's a nice insurance policy. And a RHS PMD which we lack outside of Letang. But Nisky needs to take a huge discount to stay here IMO.

You are completely missing my/the point. It's not about worth or what number Dman he is. It's about strategy and asset management. If we lose Orpik, Vokoun, Engelland and Jokinen next year, even with the raises to Letang + Malkin and, say, a doubling of Sutter's salary, we could have almost $10 million in cap space next year and, according to some projections, the cap is going to be up near $80 million (i.e. $20 million in cap space) 2 years later!


By that time, when the cap could be near $80 million, we'll have to re-sign Bennett & Maatta (probably $4-5 million combined), so we could have close to $15 to play with. Also, by that time, our young guys would be able to replace a Scuderi (approx $3.4 million) and we could trade a guy like Niskanen or Martin, further creating cap space. In short, CAP SPACE IS NOT AN ISSUE.


So why not sign a guy to provide depth, hedge against Martin leaving, and against injuries and/or lack of progression of our younger Dmen at that time. It gives us flexibility and assets to trade. You want to get good wingers and add to our depth? So why not do this. This is the best way, and provides us the most flexibility to add assets and give us more options. If you can't understand this, I don't know what else to say.

2014-15

Scuderi-Letang
Maatta-Martin
Despres-Bort

2015-16 (sans Martin)

Maatta-Letang
Despres-Scuderi
Dumo/Harrington/D prospect who surprises-Bort

We don't need Niskanen moving forward. Not even a little bit. Re-signing him does not help our team, make us a better team, or help our prospects. It'd be a bad decision.

Again, see my point above. I would rather see us trade Scuderi (who will be replaced by Harrington and/or Dumoulin within 2 years), re-sign Nisky, extend Martin and then trade one of Martin or Nisky (based on performance and possible returns) in 2-3 years.

2014-2015 (no Orpik)

Scuderi--Letang
Maatta--Martin
Despres--Bortuzzo/Niskanen

2015-2016 (trade Scuderi)

Dumoulin--Letang
Maatta--Martin/Niskanen (trade one, keep the other)
Despres--Bortuzzo

(keep Samuelsson as the #7th Dman going forward for the next couple of seasons)

Then, trade the other one of Martin/Niskanen when the other guys (Harrington, Pouliot) are ready to play full-time.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Again, see my point above. I would rather see us trade Scuderi (who will be replaced by Harrington and/or Dumoulin within 2 years), re-sign Nisky, extend Martin and then trade one of Martin or Nisky (based on performance and possible returns) in 2-3 years.

2014-2015 (no Orpik)

Scuderi--Letang
Maatta--Martin
Despres--Bortuzzo/Niskanen

2015-2016 (trade Scuderi)

Dumoulin--Letang
Maatta--Martin/Niskanen (trade one, keep the other)
Despres--Bortuzzo

(keep Samuelsson as the #7th Dman going forward for the next couple of seasons)

Then, trade the other one of Martin/Niskanen when the other guys (Harrington, Pouliot) are ready to play full-time.

I don't agree with you / like this plan. I think it's stupid to pay 3.5M for a third pairing defensmen and it will push back the development of our prospects.

I also don't think Dumoulin or Harrington should/will be on our top pair in 2015-16.

 

[mpp9]

I think Shero will re-sign Martin this summer. And at similar money. That should be the top priority.

Let Orpik move on. Take a look at the available forwards. And if there's money left over to sign Nisky, great.

 

[SEALBound]

As this year has clearly demonstrated, injuries happen. Depth is good. Without Nisky right now u think wed be in trouble. I'd be okay with a resigning if the term and hut were manageable. 2-3yr/$3mil could work.

 

[Ogrezilla]

As this year has clearly demonstrated, injuries happen. Depth is good. Without Nisky right now u think wed be in trouble. I'd be okay with a resigning if the term and hut were manageable. 2-3yr/$3mil could work.

If he keeps this level of play up he is getting closer to 5mil than 3 mil if he tests the market.

 

[mpp9]

If he keeps this level of play up he is getting closer to 5mil than 3 mil if he tests the market.

That'd be more of a result of a team overpaying than what his true worth is. I think he was looking at around 3 mil before he signed last time. I think 4-4.5 is what the number will be in free agency for the most part this time around.

If he takes a similar discount as last time, I think we could get him around 3.5 as long as we offer decent term. Up to him if he's willing to do that again. He has it pretty good here.

 

[JTG]

Ideally I want Sutter as the centre, Ott and Dupuis as his wingers. Expensive 3rd line though.

Not much more than Cooke-Staal Kennedy though. I think we need a Steve Ott here as bad as we need anything else.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That'd be more of a result of a team overpaying than what his true worth is. I think he was looking at around 3 mil before he signed last time. I think 4-4.5 is what the number will be in free agency for the most part this time around.

If he takes a similar discount as last time, I think we could get him around 3.5 as long as we offer decent term. Up to him if he's willing to do that again. He has it pretty good here.

if I was him I wouldn't sign for anything shy of 4M without testing the market. If I was the Penguins I wouldn't even want to give him 3M to play on the third pairing. As you can see, I think there should be an impasse. I thought the same about Dupuis though.

 

[billybudd]

Exactly. Orpik is NOT one of our 4 best Dmen, and there is NO chance he will get a 5 year deal. IF, and I think it's a huge IF, Shero were to offering him something, it would not be more than a 3-4 year deal. I think any talk of Shero extending Orpik is pretty much posturing:

(B) you're showing Orpik respect, but don't have a genuine intention of re-signing him. It's kind of like when you're dating and you don't want to tell the girl you don't like her, so you just make empty & unappealing offers -- sort of like what we did with Gonchar. Extend him an offer that is not insulting, but that you know he won't accept, so he won't be offended and both parties can feel good about parting ways.

Shero did what you're suggesting to Malone. Said he wanted to work out a deal, then offered him a 50k raise off a career year or something of the sort.

I still think even if Shero did want to retain Niskanen, he's probably priced himself out of our plans with his play this year. I don't see Shero offering him Wideman money and Nisky's probably putting himself in that pay range in UFA.

 

[JTG]

Shero did what you're suggesting to Malone. Said he wanted to work out a deal, then offered him a 50k raise off a career year or something of the sort.

I still think even if Shero did want to retain Niskanen, he's probably priced himself out of our plans with his play this year. I don't see Shero offering him Wideman money and Nisky's probably putting himself in that pay range in UFA.

Shero didn't actually offer Malone anything...no extension at all. Malone had said as much. Malone also said he was shocked that he was traded to Tampa before even being spoken to about an extension.

 

[billybudd]

Shero didn't actually offer Malone anything...no extension at all. Malone had said as much. Malone also said he was shocked that he was traded to Tampa before even being spoken to about an extension.

He didn't offer an extension after the season. He did, supposedly, try to re-sign him during the season for next to no salary increase.

http://triblive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_557912.html#axzz2o9op0RMM

 

[mpp9]

if I was him I wouldn't sign for anything shy of 4M without testing the market. If I was the Penguins I wouldn't even want to give him 3M to play on the third pairing. As you can see, I think there should be an impasse. I thought the same about Dupuis though.

If we're talking about what Shero would do. Do you see him letting both Orpik and Nisky walk? Assume we keep them for the playoffs.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If we're talking about what Shero would do. Do you see him letting both Orpik and Nisky walk? Assume we keep them for the playoffs.

I won't be at all surprised to see Nisky here if he will stay for less than 4M. I'd be surprised to see Orpik kept.