Speculation: Shero Ready to Talk Extensions for UFA Blueliners

[Jag68Sid87]

Do we know for a fact that Niskanen 'likes it here'? Conversely, do we know of anyone who doesn't like being here? I assume, if probed, the youngsters who never get a fair shake hate playing for this organization because of a lack of opportunity. Otherwise, if you're a 'Bylsma guy', why wouldn't you like it here?

That all said, I wonder if Niskanen isn't a huge fan of constantly shuffling between right and left defense. I wonder if he'd leave as a UFA based MOSTLY on the fact he could go somewhere where his spot on right defense would be guaranteed?

Then again, if Shero makes him a Dupuis-like offer, Niskanen would probably suck it up and stay too.

 

[DawgPens]

The only guy who I would consider re-signing is Niskanen. He's just approaching the beginning of the prime of his career, and his value (trade and otherwise) could not be higher. I think we could sign him at a favourable price, since he likes it hear, and worst case: it buys us another extra couple of years that we could use on guys like Harrington and Pouliot.

Then, we could trade Niskanen when his value is likely sky-high, since he would not be a UFA. This would be intelligent asset management. Granted, so would trading him RIGHT NOW, but I don't see Shero wanting to move him. Like I've said before: I don't think we're going to be buyers this year (especially since we don't have our 2nd rounder), but I don't think Shero has the balls to trade Orpik + Nisky either -- maybe one, but not both.

So what is the perfect compromise? I would trade Orpik THIS season, and play Bortuzzo full time in his place. Re-sign Niskanen, and trade him in 2 years. That way, we actually get something for one of these guys because I am NOT a fan of the idea of letting both of these guys walk in the off-season for nothing in return.

That is also a hedge against losing Martin (and re-signing him should be a priority if he keeps up his play), and also trade Scuds in 1-2 years. That way, we could get assets for our veterans instead of having to trade one of our young guys, and no one would have to freak out at the idea of trading a Despres/Dumo/Pouliot/Harrington. This is the best strategy and asset management, IMO. Re-signing Orpik would not. He's on the downside of his career, whereas Nisky is on the upswing. Let's cash in on Orpik now, and Nisky in 2 years. This would be my plan. If we did the inverse, Orpik would likely be worth less than Nisky in 2 years, not as productive for our team going forward, and more expensive to re-sign. If I choose who to sign vs. who to keep, I choose Nisky, so let's trade Orpik now. Our young guys have proven we don't need him.

I agree almost completely. At the right price, Nisky becomes an asset that can be used on the rink or traded down the road. Resigned, he actually has significantly higher value in a trade as well.

Shero is being prudent in not trading proven Dmen away in the short term. Many posters on here were advocating virtually giving Nisky away earlier this year. Then the injury bug (plague?) hit, and he becomes our most experienced blue liner... Shero is hedging against exactly this type of situation in the playoffs.

I do not want Orpik back, though, and I would like to see Engelland's departure as well. Still, I don't think Orpik gets traded. He has been with the team a long time, and I doubt the return will be significant enough to warrant moving him along. He's also been more of a playoff warrior than anything else the past few years, so may be worth keeping around "just in case". (And yes, I know the problem then becomes that Bylsma plays him first. But I understand Shero's perspective in this.)

 

[DawgPens]

Then again, if Shero makes him a Dupuis-like offer, Niskanen would probably suck it up and stay too.

It really depends on the price. A resigned Nisky at say $12 or $13 million for 4 years would be pretty good value.

 

[Beauner]

Do we know for a fact that Niskanen 'likes it here'? Conversely, do we know of anyone who doesn't like being here? I assume, if probed, the youngsters who never get a fair shake hate playing for this organization because of a lack of opportunity. Otherwise, if you're a 'Bylsma guy', why wouldn't you like it here?

That all said, I wonder if Niskanen isn't a huge fan of constantly shuffling between right and left defense. I wonder if he'd leave as a UFA based MOSTLY on the fact he could go somewhere where his spot on right defense would be guaranteed?

Then again, if Shero makes him a Dupuis-like offer, Niskanen would probably suck it up and stay too.

Niskanen has said on multiple occasions in interviews that he loves the organization and team and wants to be here for a while. Obviously it was just an interview but his body language and voice came off as being very truthful about it. That was probably one or two seasons ago now. Also, switching from right to left defense and, say, right and left wing are pretty different. Switching D sides, while not easy, isn't entirely too complicated.

 

[Ogrezilla]

It really depends on the price. A resigned Nisky at say $12 or $13 million for 4 years would be pretty good value.

Not for a 3rd pairing d-man its not. And not for Nisky playing the left side. So without getting rid of Martin or Letang, Nisky just doesn't have a spot to fill that is worth that money.

 

[Fleury3434*]

Not for a 3rd pairing d-man its not. And not for Nisky playing the left side. So without getting rid of Martin or Letang, Nisky just doesn't have a spot to fill that is worth that money.

Niskanen at 12-13 mil for 4 years would be a pretty solid signing (especially since the cap is going up next year and he has been solid this year). No matter how bad letang has been, pens have no interest in trading letang they will give him a couple years at least to figure his **** out (not that I agree with that but the pens wouldn't have signed letang long term if they didn't plan on seeing what he can do; pens are to classy to trade letang right after he signs a contract saying he wants to stay in pittsburgh). Martin on the other hand I could possibly see going. Main player that needs out is orpik. I don't hate orpik, I just think his time is up here there are other young players that need to play.

Next years d should be scuderi , Martin, letang, maata, niskanen, despres, (with bortuzzo and England as fill ins when needed; and we will need them knowing our injury trouble haha)

 

[Ogrezilla]

I disagree. Bortuzzo is ready to play a 3rd pairing role for cheap and he replaces a lot of what we'll be letting go in Orpik. And I like the idea of Dumoulin or Harrington having the chance to compete for that spot with him. Considering the lack of forward depth, we need all the cap dollars available to bring in wing help. The difference that money can make in a forward position is going to be bigger than the difference between Niskanen and Bortuzzo in a 3rd pairing position.

 

[DawgPens]

Not for a 3rd pairing d-man its not. And not for Nisky playing the left side. So without getting rid of Martin or Letang, Nisky just doesn't have a spot to fill that is worth that money.

If Orpik departs, the team will undoubtedly view Nisky as a second line player.

But labeling players as "first Line", "second line", etc. isn't necessarily the best way to look at it. Right now, this season, at this moment, Nisky is a first liner. Teams go through injury spurts, and whether you (or I) like it , Nisky has become a proven, (more or less) reliable mainstay. Paired with the right partner, he's a solid D-man. (Honestly, I did not think I would be saying this a year ago ...)

At $3 million a year, he's a relative bargain (and makes Orpik redundant, and possibly Martin and/or Scuderi tradable down the road). Now $4 or $4.5 million a year is a totally different story ...

 

[DawgPens]

I disagree. Bortuzzo is ready to play a 3rd pairing role for cheap and he replaces a lot of what we'll be letting go in Orpik. And I like the idea of Dumoulin or Harrington having the chance to compete for that spot with him. Considering the lack of forward depth, we need all the cap dollars available to bring in wing help. The difference that money can make in a forward position is going to be bigger than the difference between Niskanen and Bortuzzo in a 3rd pairing position.

Bortuzzo easily replaces Orpik, no question. That alone frees up a lot of cap money.

Look, I don't really disagree with what you are saying, but there's a decent chance that next year we again face a situation where (say) Martin, Scuds, and Letang are all out for a while. While you may be fine with a blue line corps that consists of something like Maatta, Despres, Bort, Demoulin, Harrington, Ulf, and Ruopp, I suspect that Shero would like to play things a bit more conservatively. (I'm assuming Orpik and Engelland are gone.) And I can't say I blame him. Those guys may be great, but at this point they are still relatively unproven.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If Orpik departs, the team will undoubtedly view Nisky as a second line player.

But labeling players as "first Line", "second line", etc. isn't necessarily the best way to look at it. Right now, this season, at this moment, Nisky is a first liner. Teams go through injury spurts, and whether you (or I) like it , Nisky has become a proven, (more or less) reliable mainstay. Paired with the right partner, he's a solid D-man. (Honestly, I did not think I would be saying this a year ago ...)

At $3 million a year, he's a relative bargain (and makes Orpik redundant, and possibly Martin and/or Scuderi tradable down the road). Now $4 or $4.5 million a year is a totally different story ...

Niskanen would be our 3rd best Right D-man behind Letang and Martin, or our 4th best left d-man behind Scuds, Maatta and Despres. Simply put, he sucks on the left. That shouldn't even be considered an option. On the right, you'd need to move one of Letang or Martin for it to make sense to keep Niskanen. Its not out of the question that Shero would go with one more year of overlap similar to what he did with Scuds and Orpik this year though. Keep Niskanen and Martin both knowing that Martin's contract is up after next year.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Niskanen has said on multiple occasions in interviews that he loves the organization and team and wants to be here for a while. Obviously it was just an interview but his body language and voice came off as being very truthful about it. That was probably one or two seasons ago now. Also, switching from right to left defense and, say, right and left wing are pretty different. Switching D sides, while not easy, isn't entirely too complicated.

Not for Matt Niskanen, it's quite complicated because he's pretty good on one side, and completely sucks on the other.

Maybe he doesn't feel it's a big deal, but the eyeball test suggests otherwise.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Not for Matt Niskanen, it's quite complicated because he's pretty good on one side, and completely sucks on the other.

Maybe he doesn't feel it's a big deal, but the eyeball test suggests otherwise.

This. Matt Niskanen is a bad left defenseman.

 

[mpp9]

Nisky's partner matters more than what side he plays on.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Nisky's partner matters more than what side he plays on.

Disagree. He sucked with Engelland. He sucked with Letang. You think it's going to suddenly improve next to Martin or Bortuzzo? I don't.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Nisky's partner matters more than what side he plays on.

He's never looked good on the left (with Engo or Letang) and this year has always looked his best on the right (with Scuds, Despres and Maatta now)

So unless he just happens to play well with all of our left d-men and none of our right d-men, I disagree.

 

[mpp9]

I think he could play fine next to Bort. He's better on the RD, but the drop off comes when you put him with high risk players.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think he could play fine next to Bort. He's better on the RD, but the drop off comes when you put him with high risk players.

Is Despres really a low risk player? I guess if you count unintentional screwups as risky then Engo is still riskier

 

[mpp9]

Is Despres really a low risk player? I guess if you count unintentional screwups as risky then Engo is still riskier

When he's played with Nisky, he's been pretty low risk. And plus he's got the size to complement the pairing well.

Engelland isn't a top 6 D on a contender. I don't count him.

 

[eXile59]

If we resign a player who will be 34 by next season, has had two hernia surgeries, a concussion, & has struggled a lot recently so we can keep him for the locker room while there are younger, cheaper, better players, I'm out on Shero. I mean Dupuis, okay we really don't have anyone other than Bennett, maybe Megna. Orpik is easily replaced to make this team better.

I don't understand why Shero doesn't like turn over. What he calls consistency is turning into complacency. With all the call ups & this winning streak it's written on the wall.

 

[Sideline]

If we resign a player who will be 34 by next season, has had two hernia surgeries, a concussion, & has struggled a lot recently so we can keep him for the locker room while there are younger, cheaper, better players, I'm out on Shero. I mean Dupuis, okay we really don't have anyone other than Bennett, maybe Megna. Orpik is easily replaced to make this team better.

I don't understand why Shero doesn't like turn over. What he calls consistency is turning into complacency. With all the call ups & this winning streak it's written on the wall.

This post is 100% true facts. My preference is to auction Orpik off at the deadline because I think he could easily bring back a 1st+, but I'm okay with him staying as a free rental.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This post is 100% true facts. My preference is to auction Orpik off at the deadline because I think he could easily bring back a 1st+, but I'm okay with him staying as a free rental.

I won't be OK with Despres sitting if we keep Orpik.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

If we resign a player who will be 34 by next season, has had two hernia surgeries, a concussion, & has struggled a lot recently so we can keep him for the locker room while there are younger, cheaper, better players, I'm out on Shero. I mean Dupuis, okay we really don't have anyone other than Bennett, maybe Megna. Orpik is easily replaced to make this team better.

I don't understand why Shero doesn't like turn over. What he calls consistency is turning into complacency. With all the call ups & this winning streak it's written on the wall.

I wonder what these injury plagued seasons have done to an already highly cautious Shero. It looked like Crosby's career could be over, Malkin tore his ACL, everyone else took some serious beatings and it hasn't stopped. Even the potential top 6 winger has been hit by it, the promising new winger got it, the newly signed big name defenseman has been nailed by it this season; the team is half injured in some significant ways. Maybe the injuries broke Shero? Maybe he's latched onto people he thinks have been important to the team surviving it? IDK.

I still don't like Dupuis' contract, not having the depth to replace him is nothing compared to the mess that it could end up being; it's also not like he's a legitimate top 6 winger anyway. It's started horribly. Orpik will undoubtedly end up being a worse contract if it happens, that's a scary thought.

 

[Sutter16]

Realistically, I see Shero moving Despres. He's been so solid and good this year, but I just feel that he's the odd man out. I think it'll be to Anaheim for Kyle Palmeri. Just a gut feeling. They worked on him defensivley in WBS, maybe to increase his trade value? I wouldn't move Despres. But I think we'll see Orpik and Niskanen both re-signed. 2 years each, close in money. Not what I would do, but I think that's what happens

 

[jmelm]

This post is 100% true facts. My preference is to auction Orpik off at the deadline because I think he could easily bring back a 1st+, but I'm okay with him staying as a free rental.

This be true facts guy, indeed. This is why I want ZERO part of Orpik going forward, and because I think we could, and NEED, to get a good return on him (or someone) at the deadline. Our D depth is great, and now it's time we start doing that with forwards, which we can acquire through trades or through the draft. And for this season/playoffs, he can easily be replaced by Bortuzzo and/or Despres.

Do we know for a fact that Niskanen 'likes it here'? Conversely, do we know of anyone who doesn't like being here? I assume, if probed, the youngsters who never get a fair shake hate playing for this organization because of a lack of opportunity. Otherwise, if you're a 'Bylsma guy', why wouldn't you like it here?

That all said, I wonder if Niskanen isn't a huge fan of constantly shuffling between right and left defense. I wonder if he'd leave as a UFA based MOSTLY on the fact he could go somewhere where his spot on right defense would be guaranteed?

Then again, if Shero makes him a Dupuis-like offer, Niskanen would probably suck it up and stay too.

Does Nisky like it here? Hell yes. Don't you remember his quote from when he re-signed here last time? "I'm not happy to be in Pittsburgh. I'm super happy."

He obviously loves it here. He's playing the best hockey of his career here and has received the trust and admiration of his team mates, coaching staff, fans, et al. Oh, and he gets to play with perhaps the 2 best players in the world on a team that's a perennial contender. I do believe he would love to stay, but we'd have to give him a fair raise. I believe it would cost somewhere between $4-$4.25 to re-sign him, since he could probably get $5million as a UFA. I think if we could get him at that price on a 3 or 4 year deal, I would all for doing that plan of signing him and then trading him in 2 years.

Not for a 3rd pairing d-man its not. And not for Nisky playing the left side. So without getting rid of Martin or Letang, Nisky just doesn't have a spot to fill that is worth that money.

You have to think bigger picture and longer term for a moment. A high cap hit is only relevant if it (A) prevents that player from becoming an asset that you can trade; or (B) ACTUALLY PREVENTS you (opportunity cost) from spending that money on another player. There's not exactly a great crop of UFA forwards out there this summer that we are better spending that money on. And while Nisky may not be a top-4 on this team when everyone is healthy, there are other teams that would like up to pay Nisky $4-$4.5 million as a UFA.

That's why, if we're not going to trade Nisky before the deadline, it would be stupid to lose that player for nothing, if we could do otherwise. Not quite as stupid like possibly losing a guy like Suter, Bouwmeester, Iginla or Ilya Kovalchuk for nothing, but similarly stupid nonetheless.

If we have the cap room to sign this guy and it doesn't conflict with us signing someone else, then we should sign him and trade him in 1-2 years when we could actually get a really good forward for him, or free up the cash to do so. I would classify this as a good problem to have. This is about asset management, not about which of our D-lines is labelled #2 or #3. We will probably have a #2a and #2b situation anyway.

 

[mpp9]

I like Nisky, but he's a #5 here now and moving forward. No way would I pay him much more than 3-3.5 for 4 years.

He's a nice insurance policy. And a RHS PMD which we lack outside of Letang. But Nisky needs to take a huge discount to stay here IMO.