Player Discussion Shea Weber - Man Mountain or Gentle Giant? Edition

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

...and yet the question still goes unanswered. Your silence says volumes.

By the way, if you want to have a discussion and use some real stats like Corsi or Fenwick, let me know.

Your inability to read is perplexing. Allow me to bold a section of the exact post you quoted. God help us if you can't figure it out this time.

That's because they support my argument no matter which way you slice them... We're better defensively with Weber, and thus (in theory) less susceptible in the long run to the ebbs and flows of offensive production. Such is the reality of playing in a 2.77 goals for per game NHL. I'm actually surprised that Weber has as many points as he does this year, given Emelin (0 goals, 12 points last year, lol) as a full time partner instead of, say, Markov.

I should have also added "that's built around Carey Price to begin with" to that bold part, but I don't know how much more of the obvious I need to plate for you here.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I would take Subba over Weber anytime. Subban was made for Montreal and and vice versa. Bergevin and Therrien ****ed that up big time.

I'd agree with that, though. Any worse of a player in return and I might have been disappointed.

 

[BadHabit]

Your inability to read is perplexing. Allow me to bold a section of the exact post you quoted. God help us if you can't figure it out this time.



I should have also added "that's built around Carey Price to begin with" to that bold part, but I don't know how much more of the obvious I need to plate for you here.

So is your lack of reading ability... once more - "
Did the trade fill a gap in this team which has led them to be in a better position to win the cup?"

If your answer to that question which I've posted now 4 times is Yes because now we're better defensively, then apparently you don't remember the playoffs in Carey Price's Vezina year.

Yes, let's lose all the games 1-0 and 2-1. Sign me up, love that brand of hockey. Should probably trade Sergachev while we're at it. We have definitely never had an issue scoring - we've always lacked defensively.

Can't wait for the parade in June. See you there - we're a shoe in now! Look at that defense, it's as impenetrable as Trump's border wall!

 

[sandviper]

As usual, most posters can't be reasonable and have to go to the extremes that either PK sucks or Weber sucks and not focus on the fact there is more to the team than one player. Frank Drebin put it best where neither guy was the solution or problem...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

As usual, most posters can't be reasonable and have to go to the extremes that either PK sucks or Weber sucks and not focus on the fact there is more to the team than one player. Frank Drebin put it best where neither guy was the solution or problem...

I was going to ask what the general feel of the thread was but then this made me realize it's like all the other parts of HF Habs.

 

[BadHabit]

As usual, most posters can't be reasonable and have to go to the extremes that either PK sucks or Weber sucks and not focus on the fact there is more to the team than one player. Frank Drebin put it best where neither guy was the solution or problem...

I'm not saying either sucks. I'm saying, he's not that much better defensively, he's certainly not better offensively overall, and he didn't fill the need this team had. We got worse, and will continue to as his game dwindles with his age.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

As usual, most posters can't be reasonable and have to go to the extremes that either PK sucks or Weber sucks and not focus on the fact there is more to the team than one player. Frank Drebin put it best where neither guy was the solution or problem...

As per usual, I explain in great detail my opinion of why I think Weber is better, and all some digest from reading that is "PK sucks"... Not unlike when I explain in great detail how Plekanec doesn't suck nearly as much as his most vocal detractors insist, yet some only get "Plekanec is the best" from it... Used to it.

 

[Toene]

In theory, you're probably right. In reality, though, PK's numbers since coming back from injury actually improve his overall numbers/rates in many ways. 10 pts in 15 is better than the 17 in 29 before. Being +6 in those 15 games is better than the -11 in the previous 29. Etc. But he hasn't been scoring goals, if anyone has tunnel vision for goals in particular. But to address your point, in this case it actually makes PK look slightly better if we use his overall numbers instead of just pre-injury ones. Factoring in that he joined a new team to start the year, I figure his overall numbers are about as fair as you can get while being as lazy as the next guy when it comes to actually checking the math first.



Maybe.

I wasnt clear but I was talking about the time between last year's freak injury up until now. It's one of his worst stretch ever... following and preceding the only time hes been injured in his career. And it's without taking into account a new environment and new teammates, the psychological impact of being traded away from his childhood team by a staff that were always hard on him despite him delivering elite performances night in, night out. Im not trying to come up with excuses for him as he did play bad in the beginning with Nashville and he's a professional athlete that should be able to be consistent but not every player reacts the same to such a situation.

Next year should be better grounds for comparison, imo.

 

[BadHabit]

As per usual, I explain in great detail my opinion of why I think Weber is better, and all some digest from reading that is "PK sucks"... Not unlike when I explain in great detail how Plekanec doesn't suck nearly as much as his most vocal detractors insist, yet some only get "Plekanec is the best" from it... Used to it.

FYI - it's nearly irrelevant IF Weber is better or not. IF Weber didn't fit a need that this team had, then we took a step backwards towards the ultimate goal of a Stanley Cup.

My question remains as does my opinion.

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

Good to see the usual suspects getting owned. Say what you want about PK, that was a HORRIBLE deal and Bergy got fleeced. If he traded for Doughty or Karlsson, I'd be completely fine with that as thsoe 2 are game changers anywhere on the ice in any scenario. Weber is a solid Dman with a good shot. He needs help whereas the other guys do not. Weber has played with Jossi and Suter. Pales in comparison with who PK played with. Flipping Bouillion, Gorges.

 

[Rapala]

As usual, most posters can't be reasonable and have to go to the extremes that either PK sucks or Weber sucks and not focus on the fact there is more to the team than one player. Frank Drebin put it best where neither guy was the solution or problem...

Which brings us full circle.
Why the trade?

 

[Rapala]

As per usual, I explain in great detail my opinion of why I think Weber is better, and all some digest from reading that is "PK sucks"... Not unlike when I explain in great detail how Plekanec doesn't suck nearly as much as his most vocal detractors insist, yet some only get "Plekanec is the best" from it... Used to it.

You'll need to do a better job with your great details because they haven't translated into good hockey On The Ice...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Which brings us full circle.
Why the trade?

It depends what people think of MB and MT I guess.

It could be that some feel they tried to pin something on Subban but I haven't seen them imply that.

It could be that they just liked Weber more...but who doesn't like the guy they get more. Why else would they get him or why would they admit otherwise?

I guess they just saw a better fit right or wrong.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Good to see the usual suspects getting owned. Say what you want about PK, that was a HORRIBLE deal and Bergy got fleeced. If he traded for Doughty or Karlsson, I'd be completely fine with that as thsoe 2 are game changers anywhere on the ice in any scenario. Weber is a solid Dman with a good shot. He needs help whereas the other guys do not. Weber has played with Jossi and Suter. Pales in comparison with who PK played with. Flipping Bouillion, Gorges.

But doesn't Subban play with Josi now?(I'm not sure)

And he's not really producing more than he had under MT. It's his lowest PPG since before the lockout and apparently he's with better players.

I get he was injured, but he wasn't great from the start. He's on fire recently though.

 

[Rapala]

It depends what people think of MB and MT I guess.

It could be that some feel they tried to pin something on Subban but I haven't seen them imply that.

It could be that they just liked Weber more...but who doesn't like the guy they get more. Why else would they get him or why would they admit otherwise?

I guess they just saw a better fit right or wrong.

I don't dislike Shea Weber but as someone else pointed out we didn't have the depth on either side to support his 5v5 shortcomings on offense. It really hurts when we are down a goal and Weber/Emelin are taking their regular shifts with the top line in particular. The trade was more knee-jerk than well thought out?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

... Pales in comparison with who PK played with. Flipping Bouillion, Gorges.

Or Markov, like both times he was a Norris finalist, plus last year...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Man I hate when I go on another team's board to see how they feel about our ex players such as Eller or Subban and all I see are habs fan posts. It's so annoying. I understand 6-7 months ago but we're still in there!

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I don't dislike Shea Weber but as someone else pointed out we didn't have the depth on either side to support his 5v5 shortcomings on offense. It really hurts when we are down a goal and Weber/Emelin are taking their regular shifts with the top line in particular. The trade was more knee-jerk than well thought out?

Maybe so. Maybe it was thought out with something else in mind. I don't know. You'd have to be in the room to know.

I don't think we're suffering with Weber though. I think overall it's a lateral move. I do think Weber should have a solid PMD on his side. If Shattenkirk wasn't so expensive I'd consider it but...

 

[Rapala]

Man I hate when I go on another team's board to see how they feel about our ex players such as Eller or Subban and all I see are habs fan posts. It's so annoying. I understand 6-7 months ago but we're still in there!

There are other boards?

 

[Toene]

There are other boards?

All boards are Habs boards. It's all one big Habs board!

H.F. = Habs Fanatics

 

[Genesis76]

Which brings us full circle.
Why the trade?

Ego, from top to bottom.

 

[Toene]

Maybe so. Maybe it was thought out with something else in mind. I don't know. You'd have to be in the room to know.

I don't think we're suffering with Weber though. I think overall it's a lateral move. I do think Weber should have a solid PMD on his side. If Shattenkirk wasn't so expensive I'd consider it but...

Leddy would be nice but he's untouchable.

I think it wouldve been easier to find shutdown partner for PK than a puck-moving partner for Shea. Top-4 PMD are worth a lot.

Edit : Why not try Petry with Weber? Matching handedness is overrated.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well, this was fun.