Player Discussion Shea Weber - Dear Dad Edition

[Kriss E]

There can be trade discussions, I get that. If something you can't pass on presents itself... Business is business.

But There is awesome value in him mentoring our kids and its really sad so few are actually giving him credit for it. Ask mete, kulak, juulsen who inspired them and pushed them to be better a few years from now.

There is just as big a chance none of those guys are in the NHL in a few years too.
Beaulieu couldn't stop raving about Gonchar too...PK on Gill...veterans are needed to help youngsters, no doubt about it, but veteran presence isnt difficult to find.

 

[ECWHSWI]

There can be trade discussions, I get that. If something you can't pass on presents itself... Business is business.

But There is awesome value in him mentoring our kids and its really sad so few are actually giving him credit for it. Ask mete, kulak, juulsen who inspired them and pushed them to be better a few years from now.

So, if Weber were to leave the Habs, one way or another, there wouldnt be another player to inspire the youngsters ?


Not saying Weber isnt helping the young D or anything, just trying to understand what he's doing that is so unique, that other "leaders" around the league can't do...

 

[Kriss E]

I'd rather get Austin Matthews... but if I had a chance at 22 year old Nylander for Weber, I'm taking it.

Habs would be the ones operating from a position of strength. No urgency to move Weber, can easily keep him as a strong Captain and mentor for kids, no issues with his cap hit, team isnt expected to contend for cup..
Leafs side...they are desperate on D and likely wouldnt find any better D any time soon, they are also expected to win, asap, you tell Babcock Man Mountain is available for him...I think they'd open up the vault for him.
Getting just Nylander would be a disappointment imo. I think we could absolutely milk them for it.
Id ask Marner for him, f*** it.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Habs would be the ones operating from a position of strength. No urgency to move Weber, can easily keep him as a strong Captain and mentor for kids, no issues with his cap hit, team isnt expected to contend for cup..
Leafs side...they are desperate on D and likely wouldnt find any better D any time soon, they are also expected to win, asap, you tell Babcock Man Mountain is available for him...I think they'd open up the vault for him.
Getting just Nylander would be a disappointment imo. I think we could absolutely milk them for it.
Id ask Marner for him, **** it.

I'm not looking to move Weber, but Marner would be an exception.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Especially if we’re essentially gifting them the cup. Weber is worth more than Nylander alone right now, and especially on that team.

I'm not really concerned with their team though. I just feel like if we are moving one of our top 3 assets we should be looking at options that are more pressing, ie defense, especially with the hole Weber himself would leave. Trading him for Nylander sets this team way far back and adds another semi-redundant player who is pretty good offensively, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively. Trading to get younger just to get younger is not a winning recipe. The number 1 need we have is a young D and not Nylander, I wouldn't want him with many of our lesser assets, never-mind Weber.

 

[sandviper]

I'm not really concerned with their team though. I just feel like if we are moving one of our top 3 assets we should be looking at options that are more pressing, ie defense, especially with the hole Weber himself would leave. Trading him for Nylander sets this team way far back and adds another semi-redundant player who is pretty good offensively, but leaves a lot to be desired defensively. Trading to get younger just to get younger is not a winning recipe. The number 1 need we have is a young D and not Nylander, I wouldn't want him with many of our lesser assets, never-mind Weber.

Sure, I don’t disagree with you. What I meant to say is a Nylander for Weber swap wouldn’t do it for me. Toronto has some decent D prospects, but none of them exactly blow me away. I like Nylander, but I don’t like him that much.

Anyhow, we’re not trading Weber. If we move a veteran RHD, it’ll be Petry first.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Sure, I don’t disagree with you. What I meant to say is a Nylander for Weber swap wouldn’t do it for me. Toronto has some decent D prospects, but none of them exactly blow me away. I like Nylander, but I don’t like him that much.

Anyhow, we’re not trading Weber. If we move a veteran RHD, it’ll be Petry first.

I don't like the Weber for Nylander swap either. I think Weber is our captain and he is here to stay. If he is traded to the Leafs, it's a pretty hefty price that they can't afford. We would be looking for a Grade A asset (Sandin), a 1st (late 1st), and a proven young NHL player (Kapenen). The proven young player would be an issue. Do we really need Kapanen? I say no.

Weber trade talk should happen in 2021. We can get to see if he still has his game in the next 2.5 years and if he is on our protection list for the expansion draft. He likely is but his play on the ice dictates his value in 2021 when he will be 36 the following season and likely does not play past 37. So we would be protecting him for 2 seasons he has left.

 

[Scintillating10]

Weber is a real good player. Since his return Habs among best records in league. Helped Carey Price quite a bit. Glad we got rid of that math guy who said he was 50th best defenseman in NHL. Weber could be argued as best plalyer in game. He is in top 10 defensemen in league. PLus a way better captain that Pacioretty. He is one of best leaders in game. And real good developing young defensemen

 

[ECWHSWI]

Sure, I don’t disagree with you. What I meant to say is a Nylander for Weber swap wouldn’t do it for me. Toronto has some decent D prospects, but none of them exactly blow me away. I like Nylander, but I don’t like him that much.

Anyhow, we’re not trading Weber. If we move a veteran RHD, it’ll be Petry first.

He's not being traded, he's our best D this season, he's younger, has no injury history, cost less $ and he's the prototype D of the "new" NHL.

He may not have the mythical aura Weber has, but hey! if the Habs need it SOOOOO much, then they're too weak to win with Weber anyway...

 

[ECWHSWI]

Weber is a real good player. Since his return Habs among best records in league. Helped Carey Price quite a bit. Glad we got rid of that math guy who said he was 50th best defenseman in NHL. Weber could be argued as best plalyer in game. He is in top 10 defensemen in league. PLus a way better captain that Pacioretty. He is one of best leaders in game. And real good developing young defensemen

So far, this mythical level of leadership does not exist. He has yet to lead a NHL team to the 3rd round, and we have yet to hear about something he has done that shows great leadership.

(like Gainey in the PO with dislocated shoulder, Messier promising a PO win and scoring 2 in the game, etc)

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Not saying Weber isnt helping the young D or anything, just trying to understand what he's doing that is so unique, that other "leaders" around the league can't do...

It's the stare

Obvious, really

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So far, this mythical level of leadership does not exist. He has yet to lead a NHL team to the 3rd round, and we have yet to hear about something he has done that shows great leadership.

(like Gainey in the PO with dislocated shoulder, Messier promising a PO win and scoring 2 in the game, etc)

Or even Markov having Subban as a chauffeur for a 'Daddy-talk' joyride, to put some senses into the kid.

Or did Shea finally have one of those rides with Drouin maybe?

 

[Scriptor]

I really don't get the argument that the team can do without Weber, especially the one that says, "If he is that needed, the team just isn't good enough to win." That kind of reasoning when we are talking about one of team's best players at their position, who is also one of the better players at his position in the league, is grade school logic. MON isn't good enough to get rid of players that affect the team make-up throughout the lineup and stabilize the whole D? No shit.

TOR adding Weber to their lineup would set them up for a Cup, IMO. Muzzin, not so much, although he might help make the D deeper than it was, for sure.

 

[Kriss E]

I don't like the Weber for Nylander swap either. I think Weber is our captain and he is here to stay. If he is traded to the Leafs, it's a pretty hefty price that they can't afford. We would be looking for a Grade A asset (Sandin), a 1st (late 1st), and a proven young NHL player (Kapenen). The proven young player would be an issue. Do we really need Kapanen? I say no.

Weber trade talk should happen in 2021. We can get to see if he still has his game in the next 2.5 years and if he is on our protection list for the expansion draft. He likely is but his play on the ice dictates his value in 2021 when he will be 36 the following season and likely does not play past 37. So we would be protecting him for 2 seasons he has left.

I think the Leafs would happily to that trade.
Weber-Reilly-Muzzin with the only roster player going the other way is Kapanen? Ya. That's a good swap for them. Hefty price to pay but it would solve their issue right away and should be good for few years.

 

[Kriss E]

I really don't get the argument that the team can do without Weber, especially the one that says, "If he is that needed, the team just isn't good enough to win." That kind of reasoning when we are talking about one of team's best players at their position, who is also one of the better players at his position in the league, is grade school logic. MON isn't good enough to get rid of players that affect the team make-up throughout the lineup and stabilize the whole D? No ****.

TOR adding Weber to their lineup would set them up for a Cup, IMO. Muzzin, not so much, although he might help make the D deeper than it was, for sure.

It's about timing for us. Weber isnt getting younger and realistically, we wont be contenders for a few years at best...So might be better to move him depending on the return.

 

[Habs Halifax]

So far, this mythical level of leadership does not exist. He has yet to lead a NHL team to the 3rd round, and we have yet to hear about something he has done that shows great leadership.

(like Gainey in the PO with dislocated shoulder, Messier promising a PO win and scoring 2 in the game, etc)

He leads by example of his play on the ice and he is a respectful voice in the dressing room. It's just a small part of the many things he brings to the table for us. He's a great captain and I'm sure every single player in the NHL will disagree with your narrative.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I think the Leafs would happily to that trade.
Weber-Reilly-Muzzin with the only roster player going the other way is Kapanen? Ya. That's a good swap for them. Hefty price to pay but it would solve their issue right away and should be good for few years.

I like the Sandin and 1st return but the proven young NHL piece in Kapanen... That would be my problem cause I don't think he is a team need. I think I agree that they would like this return as well but not sure how they fit Weber in. They are already going to lose Gardiner and likely trade Marleau. Kapanen will be lucky to make 1/3 of Weber's salary next year. So they would be short about $5M ish. They will likely try to get us to take Zaitsev in the deal.

Maybe we can get another team in the mix. Nylander, Sandin, 1st and then Nylander is flipped to another team for a piece we actually need. A young power forward who can score. Pretty sure the Leafs don't like the Nylander, Sandin, 1st price though. That would be their problem if they want Weber.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

So far, this mythical level of leadership does not exist. He has yet to lead a NHL team to the 3rd round, and we have yet to hear about something he has done that shows great leadership.

(like Gainey in the PO with dislocated shoulder, Messier promising a PO win and scoring 2 in the game, etc)

Nashville was closer to a cap floor than cap ceiling team the majority of his time there. How can you realistically imply this was his fault?

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's about timing for us. Weber isnt getting younger and realistically, we wont be contenders for a few years at best...So might be better to move him depending on the return.

I'm not sure but I'm always open depending on the return. I think our real window to win is the next 2.5 years. After that, it's anybodies guess. I'm not banking on our team being better in 5 years vs who we are today. I think replacing Weber on the back end won't be easy. Yeah, Romanov and Brook look good but will they be better than Weber? Not sure. Our top prospects are good but we lack franchise blue chip talent other than Kotkaniemi. Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau, Ylonen are simply grade A assets and it's hard to predict how good they will be.

Personally, Gallagher and Reilly is the package I would dangle for a shutdown LD type. Nurse or Zadorov type. I know trading Gallagher hurts but we have Suzuki coming and we can try to sign Stone.

Weber is a keeper in my books... unless the Leafs want to get desperate in give us pry away value. Like Nylander, Late 2020 1st, and Sandin.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I really don't get the argument that the team can do without Weber, especially the one that says, "If he is that needed, the team just isn't good enough to win." That kind of reasoning when we are talking about one of team's best players at their position, who is also one of the better players at his position in the league, is grade school logic. MON isn't good enough to get rid of players that affect the team make-up throughout the lineup and stabilize the whole D? No ****.

TOR adding Weber to their lineup would set them up for a Cup, IMO. Muzzin, not so much, although he might help make the D deeper than it was, for sure.

Actually, grade school logic is described as lacking what adults have from the children's missing prefrontal cortex, which is planning, execution and social inhibitions.

The traits that would show the opposite from these missing mechanisms are long term planning AND... especially delay of gratification.

That's what actually seperates children from adults.

Guess where your grand analysis falls to when it comes to delay of gratification and long term planning?

 

[Kriss E]

I like the Sandin and 1st return but the proven young NHL piece in Kapanen... That would be my problem cause I don't think he is a team need. I think I agree that they would like this return as well but not sure how they fit Weber in. They are already going to lose Gardiner and likely trade Marleau. Kapanen will be lucky to make 1/3 of Weber's salary next year. So they would be short about $5M ish. They will likely try to get us to take Zaitsev in the deal.

Maybe we can get another team in the mix. Nylander, Sandin, 1st and then Nylander is flipped to another team for a piece we actually need. A young power forward who can score. Pretty sure the Leafs don't like the Nylander, Sandin, 1st price though. That would be their problem if they want Weber.

I'd try to milk them and ask for Marner in return. Not sure they'd go for it obviously, so was simply commenting on your trade. I think they'd do it without thinking twice. Especially if you get Babcock involved, he thinks Weber is a God.

For us..Kapanen would still be very serviceable. We had Hudon and Peca playing with Domi today, so while wingers aren't need...would still be a welcomed addition and we could make our own swap for another young D later worst case.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not sure but I'm always open depending on the return. I think our real window to win is the next 2.5 years. After that, it's anybodies guess. I'm not banking on our team being better in 5 years vs who we are today. I think replacing Weber on the back end won't be easy. Yeah, Romanov and Brook look good but will they be better than Weber? Not sure. Our top prospects are good but we lack franchise blue chip talent other than Kotkaniemi. Poehling, Suzuki, Romanov, Brook, Primeau, Ylonen are simply grade A assets and it's hard to predict how good they will be.

Personally, Gallagher and Reilly is the package I would dangle for a shutdown LD type. Nurse or Zadorov type. I know trading Gallagher hurts but we have Suzuki coming and we can try to sign Stone.

Weber is a keeper in my books... unless the Leafs want to get desperate in give us pry away value. Like Nylander, Late 2020 1st, and Sandin.

If you think 2.5 years is our window then we should be dangling Poehling..Romanov..and the likes to bring in immediate help.
We should also offer the league max for 7 years to Karlsson this summer.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'd try to milk them and ask for Marner in return. Not sure they'd go for it obviously, so was simply commenting on your trade. I think they'd do it without thinking twice. Especially if you get Babcock involved, he thinks Weber is a God.

For us..Kapanen would still be very serviceable. We had Hudon and Peca playing with Domi today, so while wingers aren't need...would still be a welcomed addition and we could make our own swap for another young D later worst case.

I'm not sure how I would feel about Kapanen, Sandin, and a late 1st for Weber. I think this works for them more than it does for us. Personally, I'm only trading Weber in pry away value.

 

[Kriss E]

Nashville was closer to a cap floor than cap ceiling team the majority of his time there. How can you realistically imply this was his fault?

He never implied it was his fault though.

 

[Kriss E]

I'm not sure how I would feel about Kapanen, Sandin, and a late 1st for Weber. I think this works for them more than it does for us. Personally, I'm only trading Weber in pry away value.

I dont know enough about Sandin to have a well formed opinion on the matter. If Kapanen is more interesting piece than Sandin, I pass.