Shattenkirk

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't want to be better. I want to go the Shanahan route to say, "great or bust".

I already stopped regularly watching the games 3.5 years ago, because I thought the product was mediocre and doomed to continued mediocrity. I have no problem with waiting another several years, if I think they finally have a plan I can believe in, and start to see some exciting pieces arriving because of it.

Obviously you have different interests and priorities, and that's fine. But we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Yeah. I think that's gonna be the case. You're not wrong. We do need elite talent... I just think steps along the way aren't a bad thing. The step forward would help us more than the 5% bump that we luck into a top 3 pick.

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah. I think that's gonna be the case. You're not wrong. We do need elite talent... I just think steps along the way aren't a bad thing. The step forward would help us more than the 5% bump that we luck into a top 3 pick.

Fair enough. To each their own.

 

[Winger98]

I don't want to be better. I want to go the Shanahan route to say, "great or bust".

I already stopped regularly watching the games 3.5 years ago, because I thought the product was mediocre and doomed to continued mediocrity. I have no problem with waiting another several years, if I think they finally have a plan I can believe in, and start to see some exciting pieces arriving because of it.

Obviously you have different interests and priorities, and that's fine. But we're going to have to agree to disagree.

eh, to be fair, I think the Leafs were in a worse position when Shanny came on board than where we are now. It looks like we'll be picking up a bit higher in the draft than normal this year, so the hope has to be that we can get a good player out of it. If we can find a way to grab Shattenkirk over the summer (rather than trading for him before the TDL, maybe going for his UFA rights after the season is over) we could be putting together a good, young-ish team in short order.

I've wanted more of a focus on kids and not locking in vets to ill-advised long term deals for a couple of seasons now, but I'm not for throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

eh, to be fair, I think the Leafs were in a worse position when Shanny came on board than where we are now. It looks like we'll be picking up a bit higher in the draft than normal this year, so the hope has to be that we can get a good player out of it. If we can find a way to grab Shattenkirk over the summer (rather than trading for him before the TDL, maybe going for his UFA rights after the season is over) we could be putting together a good, young-ish team in short order.

I've wanted more of a focus on kids and not locking in vets to ill-advised long term deals for a couple of seasons now, but I'm not for throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

See this makes sense and is what i have been arguing for years

Sell well well at this TDL pick up more picks and draft top 8

But out or lose a bad contract to expansion this summer to both save cap space and open roster spot and opportunity

Ice a younger team next year and if need be sell sell sell next TDL and again draft top 10

At that point look to the free agent market

If you can get and sign shatty this was in without giving up Larkin or Mantha or a first then ok great but the rest of that plan remains the same

 

[Retire91]

The problem in taking steps to remain good is it comes with less of a chance of ever being great.

 

[SirloinUB]

The problem in taking steps to remain good is it comes with less of a chance of ever being great.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Not when the bird is dead already.

 

[jkutswings]

Not when the bird is dead already.

Or the roster builder is a turkey.

 

[SirloinUB]

Not when the bird is dead already.

When the bird is Shattenkirk, he is probably worth 3 in the bush.

 

[Shaman464]

Trading away assets for Shattenkirk is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. They will need to trade away what little they have going for them in the future just to be able to be in the conversation for him, and if they do land them, they will likely need to draft an elite center, goalie and wingers just to make up for what they lost. So in practice they are just shifting around the needs.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

When the bird is Shattenkirk, he is probably worth 3 in the bush.

as much as I love these bird analogies it seems to many fans really do think this team is a shattenkirk from not only competing for a cup this spring, but then next five as well

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

as much as I love these bird analogies it seems to many fans really do think this team is a shattenkirk from not only competing for a cup this spring, but then next five as well

No. I just think we will be mediocre whether we do it or not. Instead of jealously clinging onto our forward prospects while our defense is one of the worst in hockey, we make some kind of move to bring the defense up.

We seem to be okay at drafting forwards, but abysmal at drafting D. I say in a crappy situation, we leverage what we seem to be good at to fix something we are bad at.

And you don't need an elite goalie. How many Cups has Carey Price won? Braden Holtby? Henrik Lundqvist? No, we have luminaries like Antti Niemi, Chris Osgood, Corey Crawford, etc.

The Wings are in a rough situation, but you have to take steps and slowly improve. It's attractive to go for the huge splash and get the next McDavid, but that's such a low percentage move. if we are going to suck, I say we check off one block of a need with a top pairing D. We aren't going to dump everything with any value in this trade. One piece.

 

[SirloinUB]

as much as I love these bird analogies it seems to many fans really do think this team is a shattenkirk from not only competing for a cup this spring, but then next five as well

Nah. nobody thinks they are on the verge of any cups.

Let's be realistic. This team isn't about to blow it up so a guy like Shattenkirk would be huge for the retool. Adding him and a top 10 pick could drastically change the direction of the team for the next 6 years.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

No. I just think we will be mediocre whether we do it or not. Instead of jealously clinging onto our forward prospects while our defense is one of the worst in hockey, we make some kind of move to bring the defense up.

We seem to be okay at drafting forwards, but abysmal at drafting D. I say in a crappy situation, we leverage what we seem to be good at to fix something we are bad at.

And you don't need an elite goalie. How many Cups has Carey Price won? Braden Holtby? Henrik Lundqvist? No, we have luminaries like Antti Niemi, Chris Osgood, Corey Crawford, etc.

The Wings are in a rough situation, but you have to take steps and slowly improve. It's attractive to go for the huge splash and get the next McDavid, but that's such a low percentage move. if we are going to suck, I say we check off one block of a need with a top pairing D. We aren't going to dump everything with any value in this trade. One piece.

I guess I am just surprised that you feel Shattenkirk checks off a block that we need

To me, he is just the mike green we signed but just a year younger than green was at that time we signed him

sign him for free.. sure
trade a 4th for his rights... sure

 

[Bench]

If I thought the Wings were going to sincerely rebuild from the ground up, that would make sense to pass on Shattenkirk and his large salary.

But nah, the Wings aren't doing that. So if they are going to keep re-tooling and hoping for the best, you might as well add a legitimately good defender to this miserable defense. Like Winger98 suggested, if deadline prices are high, try to massage a deal for his rights ASAP after the season. Waiting for UFA is just code for losing out on him to a team that will actually deal for his rights.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Nah. nobody thinks they are on the verge of any cups.

Let's be realistic. This team isn't about to blow it up so a guy like Shattenkirk would be huge for the retool. Adding him and a top 10 pick could drastically change the direction of the team for the next 6 years.

you really think a guy who couldnt help a much much better st louis blues team accomplish anything is going to come in here and do the exact opposite for a weaker red wings team until he is 34 or 35?

come on

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

you really think a guy who couldnt help a much much better st louis blues team accomplish anything is going to come in here and do the exact opposite for a weaker red wings team until he is 34 or 35?

come on

Do I think he can play a bigger role to make our defense better than St. Louis's?

Yep. There he has Pie, Bouwmeester, and Parayko directly contending for time. Here, he would be the stud. He'd improve us for no other reason than DeKeyser getting bumped to a mid-pairing where he wasn't getting jackhammered every night. That's been the biggest problem. Everyone is slotted one space too high. Bring in the guy at the top and all of a sudden your middle pairing has good middle pairing talent on it and so on.

 

[jkutswings]

If I thought the Wings were going to sincerely rebuild from the ground up, that would make sense to pass on Shattenkirk and his large salary.

But nah, the Wings aren't doing that. So if they are going to keep re-tooling and hoping for the best, you might as well add a legitimately good defender to this miserable defense. Like Winger98 suggested, if deadline prices are high, try to massage a deal for his rights ASAP after the season. Waiting for UFA is just code for losing out on him to a team that will actually deal for his rights.

Or I can keep hoping for losses until either they shift philosophy or people get fired/retire.

Not a particularly fulfilling avenue, but I don't really need hockey in my life enough to be satisfied with less than a good front office, so it doesn't bother me to travel that particular road.

 

[Frk It]

Adding him and a top 10 pick could drastically change the direction of the team for the next 6 years.

This would be awesome.

 

[Retire91]

At 27 he is not the right age for a team that has no core. The was the same with the Mike Green signing. By the time you draft the remaining peices for a legit core players like Mike Green and Shatenkirk are going to be out of their prime. This is without even considering the further setback created by the 1 or 2 pieces of the future core that need to go the other way to brink him aboard. Its an absolutely awful fit for the team as pointless as the Green signing, more costly but not quite as awful as the Phanuef roomers.

I liked the streak when the team was in the conversation for the cup. The streak just for the streak is lame and continues at the cost of never being legit again.

 

[TCNorthstars]

Do I think he can play a bigger role to make our defense better than St. Louis's?

Yep. There he has Pie, Bouwmeester, and Parayko directly contending for time. Here, he would be the stud. He'd improve us for no other reason than DeKeyser getting bumped to a mid-pairing where he wasn't getting jackhammered every night. That's been the biggest problem. Everyone is slotted one space too high. Bring in the guy at the top and all of a sudden your middle pairing has good middle pairing talent on it and so on.

Is Shattenkirk going to play the left side?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Do I think he can play a bigger role to make our defense better than St. Louis's?

Yep. There he has Pie, Bouwmeester, and Parayko directly contending for time. Here, he would be the stud. He'd improve us for no other reason than DeKeyser getting bumped to a mid-pairing where he wasn't getting jackhammered every night. That's been the biggest problem. Everyone is slotted one space too high. Bring in the guy at the top and all of a sudden your middle pairing has good middle pairing talent on it and so on.

A bigger role towards What? Missing the playoffs or getting embrassed by Tampa bay?

The team you saw last night minus Martha and the 9th overall pick but with shattenkirk still loses that game, still remains 7 pts out of the playoffs, still has no young high end core BUT is now further away from the day we do have that young high end core.

 

[Suavecito]

Apparently the Leafs want an experienced Dman...I could see them offering JVR for Shattenkirk.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Apparently the Leafs want an experienced Dman...I could see them offering JVR for Shattenkirk.

The leafs have a great young core

It makes total sense

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Apparently the Leafs want an experienced Dman...I could see them offering JVR for Shattenkirk.

JVR is a LW and the Blues are pretty well set a LW, They more or less are looking RW and Centers don't see JVR being a fit for St Louis as least that's what their fans were telling me any ways.