GDT: Sharks vs Giants: Sunday Night Football

[stator]

I think ppl are underestimating couturs impact on this team and martins ability to be a foil for burns and also pushing Dillon down can't be overstated.

Hertl looks great this year, but he is not coutures equal. If he were we'd be a stacked forward group.

Let's take a deep breath and move on from this. Anaheim has one win and Vancouver just got beat by the oilers.

Perhaps. I pointed out Couture's last season stats just before this season started. It showed that his stats were much better than what some of us here gave him credit for. Or in other words, the downfall of Couture as some were alluding did not happen.

I don't believe Hertl looked that good in the past two games. Being a 1st rounder, he should be better, imo. However, reviewing the 1st round draftees in 2012 and their accomplishments to date, perhaps 2012 was not a strong draft year?

What the heck happened

To me, it was a puck possession issue, and not the puck possession form of advance stats. I am talking about possessing the puck with the blade of the stick, or fully controlling it. Sharks were not possessing the puck at all, but were fumbling and swatting it.

Since the Rangers played the day before, the Sharks needed to move to a more physical game in the 1st quarter to wear them down, then pounce on later half of the 2nd and 3rd. Instead, the Sharks rarely put any quality hits on the Rangers.

Instead, we saw the speed game ala TMac. However, without the confidence of being able to control the puck on their sticks, and make solid passes, this will not work.

 

[CrypTic]

Again, I'm simply pointing out what I am seeing and what needs to be fixed. I'm not saying we are screwed or it is hopeless, I never said that. I am pointing out a problem that is one I have harped on for 4-5 seasons at least cropping up again early in the season. I am not worked up, or predicting total failure. I'm saying if this doesn't get fixed (finally) we have serious issues ahead.

I agree that it's a potential problem. If the team had had time to practice with the new players and lines, i'd be much more concerned than I am now. With both Couture and Martin out, this team will struggle. They are both key pieces for the Sharks. I'm going to give DeBoer and the team at least a few practices to work out the kinks, find the best line combinations, etc. before I put as much blame on the players as you seem to. If they still play like the did the last two games, I'll be worried.

FWIW, I don't think ppl are disagreeing about it being a concern so much as saying "let's give it a bit of time before saying it's a big problem."

ETA:

I don't believe Hertl looked that good in the past two games. Being a 1st rounder, he should be better, imo. However, reviewing the 1st round draftees in 2012 and their accomplishments to date, perhaps 2012 was not a strong draft year?

I thought Hertl made some mistakes but so did most of the team. It's his first year playing center (ignoring a few games last season) and he's on a new line. He hasn't had a chance to practice with that line yet. I"d give it a few games before judging him on that line.

 

[hockeyball]

I agree that it's a potential problem. If the team had had time to practice with the new players and lines, i'd be much more concerned than I am now. With both Couture and Martin out, this team will struggle. They are both key pieces for the Sharks. I'm going to give DeBoer and the team at least a few practices to work out the kinks, find the best line combinations, etc. before I put as much blame on the players as you seem to. If they still play like the did the last two games, I'll be worried.

FWIW, I don't think ppl are disagreeing about it being a concern so much as saying "let's give it a bit of time before saying it's a big problem."

ETA:


I thought Hertl made some mistakes but so did most of the team. It's his first year playing center (ignoring a few games last season) and he's on a new line. He hasn't had a chance to practice with that line yet. I"d give it a few games before judging him on that line.

That's fine, I don't disagree, but it doesn't meant it's not a problem worth recognizing. DeBoer has not had a crack at fixing this yet, hopefully he does, but TMac never could, so I am obviously worried.

 

[CrypTic]

That's fine, I don't disagree, but it doesn't meant it's not a problem worth recognizing. DeBoer has not had a crack at fixing this yet, hopefully he does, but TMac never could, so I am obviously worried.

Definitely worth keeping an eye on IMO. I'll let you have that responsibility for at least a few more games so I can focus on other things. If the Sharks don't improve, I"m sure others will join you.

 

[Used As A Shield]

I was disappointed in how easy the D gave up the neutral zone and blue line, which is something they were finally not doing in the first few games. This team playing "safe" just does not work, as the D back in they don't keep small enough gaps, allowing the other team to deke and or change speed to open passing lanes so easily. On top of that, they were terrible at keeping the puck in the Ozone and gave up numerous oddman rushes. Also, regarding Dillon, I don't know what it is about him, but with some partners he looks great, others completely terrible, yeesh.

 

[Painful Quandary]

I agree that it's a potential problem. If the team had had time to practice with the new players and lines, i'd be much more concerned than I am now. With both Couture and Martin out, this team will struggle. They are both key pieces for the Sharks. I'm going to give DeBoer and the team at least a few practices to work out the kinks, find the best line combinations, etc. before I put as much blame on the players as you seem to. If they still play like the did the last two games, I'll be worried.

Thanks for being a voice a reason. It was only two losses, in which we gave zero points to teams in our conference no less. Let's see how the team does on Thursday before throwing too many stones.

 

[bigwillie]

Tried not to get too excited about the great play the first few games, trying not to get too down on the poor play the past couple. It's a long season, and right now it's too early to really determine any long-term patterns.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I understand the concern over the fragility but even if that's a legitimate issue now, you can't really truly answer it now anyway. One, there's adjustment time for players in new roles because of the spots vacated. Two, there's a need to recognize the talent difference between what's lost and what is replacing them and how all that effects everyone around them to go with a new system still in early season form. I could see effort from the boys out there. They didn't seem to have their best skating legs out there which is just something that's going to happen. There are a lot of factors to take into account here that any one simple answer or issue just isn't going to cut it. These types of issues are not unique to the Sharks and the focus at this point is just get as many points as you can to stay in playoff contention. They will have times of adversity that they overcome it but it doesn't matter in the end. We've seen it before. We have to wait and see what this team looks like at the end of the season if they're fortunate enough to be in the playoff picture and are relatively healthy.

 

[Alwalys]

We've had two back-to-back road games since Couture and Martin got injured. Give DeBoer some faith and lets watch him sort this out. The only person here who has mentally collapsed is you. Look at how worked up you are over 2 games.

dead on!

3 in 4 with no real practice and losing 2 top players and two other starters is gonna do that to a team. Any analysis based on that belongs in the trash.

When you replace Tierney on the fourth line with Smith and then Lerg and replace Martin with a rookie bad things are bound to happen. Even if DeMelo is going to be an asset, throwing him into that situation is not ideal.

Yup. The surprise would have been then playing well given all that has happened and the inability to practice much. The team needs to regroup and figure out how to deal with these massive losses.

Perhaps. I pointed out Couture's last season stats just before this season started. It showed that his stats were much better than what some of us here gave him credit for. Or in other words, the downfall of Couture as some were alluding did not happen.

Couture is the difference between this team being potentially elite and being a bubble team. He's that good. He is legitimate 1st line quality playing on the 2nd line ... that gives us a significant advantage that is completely lost when he is out of the lineup.

 

[hockeyball]

Yup. The surprise would have been then playing well given all that has happened and the inability to practice much. The team needs to regroup and figure out how to deal with these massive losses.

So, by that logic, what was the excuse last year, and the year before that, when this same behavior occurred late in the season and the playoffs?

You just think magically this year is going to be different why? Honestly, not a loaded question, what makes you think they are going to fix it this time?

 

[Alwalys]

So, by that logic, what was the excuse last year, and the year before that, when this same behavior occurred late in the season and the playoffs?

You just think magically this year is going to be different why? Honestly, not a loaded question, what makes you think they are going to fix it this time?

Losing key players risks disaster in the modern NHL. That's all there is to it. If we lose key players as we have here we will not be competitive in the playoffs, no team will be. There's nothing more to read into this than that, really.

The team is undermanned and out of sync due to the roster changes. When the team cannot put a single pass play together, I don't begrudge any player for trying something different. Especially the guy paid to create. The system is simply breaking down right now because of personnel and execution.

The ways out of that are practice and players getting healthy. Both are forthcoming.

 

[stator]

Guys, I and others predicted that the Pacific conference is going to be a slugfest and injuries will play a major role. The differences between teams is too tight and this amplifies injuries.

We started out with injuries and added to those, and some were distasteful simply because it happened at practice. Other teams will get their time, if not already.

Though, this thread is beginning to skirt the boundaries of attacking others which we need to avoid. It's great to debate opinions, though, but it needs to stay there.

Don't worry, be happy.... the season is here, and the Sharks are a playoff team. Heck 3/4 of the conference are playoff capable teams as I see it.

 

[hohosaregood]

So, by that logic, what was the excuse last year, and the year before that, when this same behavior occurred late in the season and the playoffs?

You just think magically this year is going to be different why? Honestly, not a loaded question, what makes you think they are going to fix it this time?

No, of course not. There's like a 99% chance we aren't gonna win the cup either due to mental collapse or by not being the better team but why worry about that now after game 4 and 5.

 

[hockeyball]

Losing key players risks disaster in the modern NHL. That's all there is to it. If we lose key players as we have here we will not be competitive in the playoffs, no team will be. There's nothing more to read into this than that, really.

The team is undermanned and out of sync due to the roster changes. When the team cannot put a single pass play together, I don't begrudge any player for trying something different. Especially the guy paid to create. The system is simply breaking down right now because of personnel and execution.

The ways out of that are practice and players getting healthy. Both are forthcoming.

While I agree, we've said that in years past, and it hasn't panned out. Hopefully it will this time.

 

[hockeyball]

No, of course not. There's like a 99% chance we aren't gonna win the cup either due to mental collapse or by not being the better team but why worry about that now after game 4 and 5.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm going to enjoy the season. I have no cup expectations and I am fine with that. Heck I was fine with last year because I knew it was coming. Doesn't mean I'm not going to point out issues when I see them, it's just part of how I enjoy the game.

 

[Led Zappa]

Looks like a good year to continue the rebuild. Apparently the Habs are winning the cup this year anyway.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Let me chip in that hockeyball is making a perfectly reasonable point.

[mod]

 

[Alwalys]

Let me chip in that hockeyball is making a perfectly reasonable point.

There is nothing reasonable about extrapolating that from what we saw. This team has a long way to go and there are still a ton of unknowns about how Deboer and the new personnel will do.

Things we DO know are that we saw the team playing a great brand of hockey to start the season, then the roster was decimated and the team did not have time to practice with the new personnel. So the team struggling was not surprising in the least.

[mod]

 

[ScottyDont]

Looks like a good year to continue the rebuild. Apparently the Habs are winning the cup this year anyway.

We need a first rounder to rebuild. Trade everybody over 22!!!

 

[hockeyball]

There is nothing reasonable about extrapolating that from what we saw. This team has a long way to go and there are still a ton of unknowns about how Deboer and the new personnel will do.

Things we DO know are that we saw the team playing a great brand of hockey to start the season, then the roster was decimated and the team did not have time to practice with the new personnel. So the team struggling was not surprising in the least.

[mod]

Yes, but I wasn't making a prediction, I was pointing out a concern, there's a big difference. If I was saying "They collapsed again! Our season is screwed!" then you'd have a point. When what I was saying was more like "They collapsed again. This has been an issue in the past, they need to work on this or we are going to have problems"

 

[CrypTic]

Yes, but I wasn't making a prediction, I was pointing out a concern, there's a big difference. If I was saying "They collapsed again! Our season is screwed!" then you'd have a point. When what I was saying was more like "They collapsed again. This has been an issue in the past, they need to work on this or we are going to have problems"

FWIW, that's how I read your posts, too. You are more concerned about that (in general) than many ppl here so it was something you focused on. It's less of a concern for me (in general), although it's on my list, just further down than it is for you. You see this as history repeating itself, I see it as perhaps random noise. I think it's natural that ppl are going to be concerned about different aspects of the team (and happy about different aspects) and focus on those things. I like it bc it brings a variety of perspectives to the board.

ETA: Overall, I don't think ppl are really disagreeing so much as wording things somewhat differently and focusing on different elements of an overall picture. It seems like ppl mostly agree about the overall picture but are honing in on the details and arguing about those.

 

[Mafoofoo]

You guys are worrying too much. This is just a small bump in the road to keep the hype down so when they win the cup they can be like "WE PROVED ALL YOU GUYS WRONG. REMEMBER HOW YALL BE DOUBTING US IN OCTOBER. WELL KISS THE RING".

 

[Bowie22]

I blame the dude who made this GDT

 

[hohosaregood]

You guys are worrying too much. This is just a small bump in the road to keep the hype down so when they win the cup they can be like "WE PROVED ALL YOU GUYS WRONG. REMEMBER HOW YALL BE DOUBTING US IN OCTOBER. WELL KISS THE RING".

That year Hertl made Biron retire, the Rangers went on that crazy road trip at the start where they lost a lot and made the finals.

 

[Mafoofoo]

I blame the dude who made this GDT

I blame Eli Manning.

That year Hertl made Biron retire, the Rangers went on that crazy road trip at the start where they lost a lot and made the finals.

Bingo.