Speculation: Sharks' GM Search Discussion - Part II

[STL Shark]

I'm buyout knowledge deficient, so what do you mean "you get two of years of lower cap hits instead of one?" The only two years the cap hit is big is 24-25 and 25-26 and the only difference between this year and next year besides the added year is the savings they'd get this year (which if they want to compete, would be important for adding depth).

Let's assume nothing happens with Vlasic and he is on the roster for the next 4 years at $7M of cap hit per season. That puts him off the roster following the 2025-26 season. Because of the structuring of his deal with signing bonuses for the final 2 years (as well as this coming season as well), the buyout relief is not as much because you don't get relief from signing bonuses. So that said as a baseline, the 3 options are basically 1) Buyout now 2) Buyout a year from now or 3) Don't buy him out and let him expire in 2026.

Option 1 - Buyout Now:
2022-23: $3,687,500
2023-24: $1,437,500
2024-25: $4,187,500
2025-26: $5,187,500
2026-27 thru 2029-30: $1,687,500

Option 2 - Buyout after this 2022-23 season:
2022-23: $7,000,000
2023-24: $1,444,445
2024-25: $4,194,445
2025-26: $5,194,445
2026-27 thru 2028-29: $1,694,445

So because of the signing bonus aspect, the final two years of his deal don't have a ton of cap savings that make it worthwhile to deal with his penalty on the books until 2029 if it means you only really get a single year of cap savings (at least in my opinion). If you can expand that to 2 years of meaningful cap relief, then the penalty starts to be more palatable because the reward (years of relief) is greater. Granted, you pay on him for 1 extra year, but the cap should be moving up a ton between now and 2029-30 for that to be a consideration.

 

[NiWa]

What if he were to retire early? Given that he is 35 years now, I'd assume he'll want to keep playing while he things he belongs in the line up.
But what when he clearly doesn't, e.g. in 2 years. Would early retirement be a realistic possibility?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What if he were to retire early? Given that he is 35 years now, I'd assume he'll want to keep playing while he things he belongs in the line up.
But what when he clearly doesn't, e.g. in 2 years. Would early retirement be a realistic possibility?

Only if it coincides with an injury that will prevent him from playing. Guys tend not to pass up millions of dollars that are guaranteed to them.

 

[STL Shark]

What if he were to retire early? Given that he is 35 years now, I'd assume he'll want to keep playing while he things he belongs in the line up.
But what when he clearly doesn't, e.g. in 2 years. Would early retirement be a realistic possibility?

He will have to contract the allergic to his gloves disease that Marian Hossa magically got late in his career whenever he was washed up.

 

[Karl Prime]

He will have to contract the allergic to his gloves disease that Marian Hossa magically got late in his career whenever he was washed up.

We wish that Vlasic was still as good as 16-17 Hossa.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Only if it coincides with an injury that will prevent him from playing. Guys tend not to pass up millions of dollars that are guaranteed to them.

Are signing bonus dollars paid out when he signs the contract, because if he has already gotten that money upfront then he will probably retire. He has mentioned many times that he doesn't want to play close to as many games as Patty when Patty broke the record. The sharks would know better than us if he was only planning on playing a few more years and if he does want to retire before the contract expires then it is not worth the buyout.

 

[STL Shark]

Are signing bonus dollars paid out when he signs the contract, because if he has already gotten that money upfront then he will probably retire. He has mentioned many times that he doesn't want to play close to as many games as Patty when Patty broke the record. The sharks would know better than us if he was only planning on playing a few more years and if he does want to retire before the contract expires then it is not worth the buyout.

It’s more like a roster bonus paid at the start of the league year I believe.

 

[Patty Ice]

Grier is going to have to tread carefully if he is learning the job under Will's tutelage. He is the guy that, when hired, his primary responsibilities include contract research and negotiations, scouting operations, fiscal planning, salary cap analysis and hockey administration. All areas that became a concern after he was hired and has put the organization in dark times. Prior to that, the Sharks were lauded for their ability to field competitive teams without backbreaking salaries.

I hope Grier succeeds and I think he is capable of that if he is given his own autonomy. I sincerely doubt that Hasso will allow that however and he is being setup for failure (any new GM would be under these conditions).

 

[Lebanezer]

Grier is going to have to tread carefully if he is learning the job under Will's tutelage. He is the guy that, when hired, his primary responsibilities include contract research and negotiations, scouting operations, fiscal planning, salary cap analysis and hockey administration. All areas that became a concern after he was hired and has put the organization in dark times. Prior to that, the Sharks were lauded for their ability to field competitive teams without backbreaking salaries.

I hope Grier succeeds and I think he is capable of that if he is given his own autonomy. I sincerely doubt that Hasso will allow that however and he is being setup for failure (any new GM would be under these conditions).

I don't think Grier is going to need much tutelage from Joe Will. I think he learned plenty with the Rangers. Get an elite goalie, and the rest of your roster doesn't matter that much.

 

[Karl Prime]

Grier is going to have to tread carefully if he is learning the job under Will's tutelage. He is the guy that, when hired, his primary responsibilities include contract research and negotiations, scouting operations, fiscal planning, salary cap analysis and hockey administration. All areas that became a concern after he was hired and has put the organization in dark times. Prior to that, the Sharks were lauded for their ability to field competitive teams without backbreaking salaries.

I hope Grier succeeds and I think he is capable of that if he is given his own autonomy. I sincerely doubt that Hasso will allow that however and he is being setup for failure (any new GM would be under these conditions).

Will was hired in 2011 and the dark times only really fell in 2019. Not saying he hasn't been problematic, but there's many reasons why the organization is where they are - maybe most important being the Jones, Vlasic, Kane, and Karlsson extensions, and those definitely would have all been Wilson decisions.

 

[Patty Ice]

Will was hired in 2011 and the dark times only really fell in 2019. Not saying he hasn't been problematic, but there's many reasons why the organization is where they are - maybe most important being the Jones, Vlasic, Kane, and Karlsson extensions, and those definitely would have all been Wilson decisions.

The Sharks issues didn't just appear overnight.

Yes, Wilson signed off on those but that was under Will's research and advisement. That was his primary responsibility. I'm not only blaming Will but he is definitely a big part of the problems the organization is currently facing.

Keeping him as AGM to a guy who has no prior experience in running an organization is cause for concern for me. I want the Sharks to succeed, I want Grier to succeed. Keeping the guy in charge of contracts and cap management from the old regime and using him as the mentor is a recipe for disaster.

 

[STL Shark]

The Sharks issues didn't just appear overnight.

Yes, Wilson signed off on those but that was under Will's research and advisement. That was his primary responsibility. I'm not only blaming Will but he is definitely a big part of the problems the organization is currently facing.

Keeping him as AGM to a guy who has no prior experience in running an organization is cause for concern for me. I want the Sharks to succeed, I want Grier to succeed. Keeping the guy in charge of contracts and cap management from the old regime and using him as the mentor is a recipe for disaster.

Joe Will has been with SJ since 1990. I don’t think this is the deal or issue/person that you think that it is.

 

[Patty Ice]

Joe Will has been with SJ since 1990. I don’t think this is the deal or issue/person that you think that it is.

I know he has but problems escalated once he was given more responsibilities.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Are signing bonus dollars paid out when he signs the contract, because if he has already gotten that money upfront then he will probably retire. He has mentioned many times that he doesn't want to play close to as many games as Patty when Patty broke the record. The sharks would know better than us if he was only planning on playing a few more years and if he does want to retire before the contract expires then it is not worth the buyout.

They're paid out on agreed upon days each year that a contract contains one.

 

[STL Shark]

I know he has but problems escalated once he was given more responsibilities.

He has been involved with hockey ops since 2005. He then got a promotion (Dwight Schrute style) from Assistant to the General Manager to Assistant General Manager. I think you're overvaluing the role that he played in these things. Plus, the entire NHL saw contracts begin to balloon during this same era as the cap was progressing rapidly coming out of the partial lockout of 2012-13. Then the shutdown happened in 2020 and now everything looks a lot worse leaguewide. Sharks just have basically one more bad contract than most other teams (who all have their own bad contracts for the most part).