Post-Game Talk: Sharks 2, Pens 1 (SO) - The Kunitz Spoils Sid Going Old School Edition

[AquaticBirdman]

Whatever they need to tell themselves that keeps Adams out of the lineup. Though we're due for a Downie maintenance night on Thursday I have a feeing.

I'd rather have a one-legged Downie in the lineup than a fully fit Craig Adams. Not even MJ can be so delusional as to overlook just how much more effective our 4 lines have been these last few games. We now have a bottom 6 that comprises speed, grit, and some skill, which is a far cry from what we've seen from it in the last few years.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Whatever they need to tell themselves that keeps Adams out of the lineup. Though we're due for a Downie maintenance night on Thursday I have a feeing.

edit, In reference to the BB compete level quote.

If Downie doesn't take a penalty that costs them at least one playoff game,mill be pretty shocked. Even when he tries to be disciplined, he still gets a rep call.

It's like my buddy in grade school, he was such a bad kid that he got detention for stuff other people did.

 

[Shady Machine]

MJ and the coaching staff are pleased with BB game and apparently his "compete level" is up now:

http://triblive.com/sports/penguins/7915916-74/bennett-johnston-game#axzz3U1GpLphq

You can't make this **** up even if you tried.

I mean I think MJ is full of **** there, but whatever keeps him in the lineup, I guess.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I mean I think MJ is full of **** there, but whatever keeps him in the lineup, I guess.

Like you said, if his own nonsense convinces him to dress BB instead of Adams, cool.

 

[Headshot77]

You know what, I don't care that we only got one pity point out of the game. We are in the playoffs by a comfortable margin of points, and no matter what seed we are, we're facing a strong team. Realistically our choices are: NYI, NYR, WSH, or BOS. Would you really prefer any of those teams to any other? None of those series are a cakewalk.

What I am more concerned about is the way we are playing. And I must say, we are playing playoff hockey. We're winning battles, we're getting physical. We practically went to war with LA and San Jose and looked like the better team against both of them. I like what I see.

I think Sutter and Sid are coming around, I'm not worried about those guys. As much as I like Downie and what he is supposed to bring to the team, man, it seems like all he does is get penalized of late. And my god, I'm a very positive fan and I like to give players the benefit of the doubt, but Kunitz had at LEAST three wide open nets with the puck on his stick, and he couldn't get anything done. Dude needs demoted. The problem is, nobody in our bottom six is really playing to earn a promotion to Malkin's line. Maybe we could see Mr Compete get one last crack if he plays well over the next 5 or so games. Comeau-Malkin-Bennett could work in theory, but I don't want to just gift the kid another top 6 spot.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Like you said, if his own nonsense convinces him to dress BB instead of Adams, cool.

Common sense would dictate that MJ is not making all of these decisions on his own. Morehouse is clearly pulling some strings, at some level. We have about a half dozen GM's with various connections to players. And they basically forced Tocchet on MJ. Who is currently mangling the power play without MJ stepping in. Add to that our head coach is a rookie NHL head coach.

There's a lot of potential alliances and buddy deals going on with ice time, who is featured in the lineup for "marketing purposes", etc etc.

I would be very surprised if there's not a lot of shenanigans at play. At the very least, MJ is trying to be careful and not get fired due to pissing off the "core".

Really, the guy in the best position to shut that crap down is JR, assuming he has the support of ownership, by trading away the last of the old guard in Kunitz, Scuds, and Adams.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Common sense would dictate that MJ is not making all of these decisions on his own. Morehouse is clearly pulling some strings, at some level. We have about a half dozen GM's with various connections to players. And they basically forced Tocchet on MJ. Who is currently mangling the power play without MJ stepping in. Add to that our head coach is a rookie NHL head coach.

There's a lot of potential alliances and buddy deals going on with ice time, who is featured in the lineup for "marketing purposes", etc etc.

I would be very surprised if there's not a lot of shenanigans at play. At the very least, MJ is trying to be careful and not get fired due to pissing off the "core".

Really, the guy in the best position to shut that crap down is JR, assuming he has the support of ownership, by trading away the last of the old guard in Kunitz, Scuds, and Adams.

I already am certain Kunitz gets top six time and first unit PP time because he is Crosby's buddy.

I also know the silliness with BB was because they were trying to trade him. So whatever nonsense MJ wants to keep spouting off, sure...

So I know many things are out of MJs control and I'm going to try to cut him slack for it. However, dressing Adams is clearly within his control.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I already am certain Kunitz gets top six time and first unit PP time because he is Crosby's buddy.

I also know the silliness with BB was because they were trying to trade him. So whatever nonsense MJ wants to keep spouting off, sure...

So I know many things are out of MJs control and I'm going to try to cut him slack for it. However, dressing Adams is clearly within his control.

I'd like to think this decision, as well as some others we haven't seen yet have been in the works for some time. It doesn't make sense to come in day 1 and piss everybody off, you need to get some buy-in first. So I'd like to think that MJ as a reasonably smart guy, at the very least, sees many of the same things this board does, and is just making moves step by step to get the ship righted in time for the post season.

But some things, like the Kunitz issue in particular, probably need to be fixed by JR.

In the case of Adams, I can clearly see Morehouse saying something to MJ like "He's a fan favorite with the yinzers, he's going to set a total games record for us this year, I've got a lot of marketing tied up with blue collar Craig, so just play him until the post season". And then telling Steigy and his agents in the press to play up Adams.

Tell me that doesn't sound like classic Morehouse.

 

[NjPensfan]

I thought Geno was really something on that PP, no clue where to be, what to do

Agreed...he's turning into kovalev...he really likes to skate around and play with the puck but then ends the play with a bad decision. He had the puck on the PP and had like 5 shot opportunities then he shoots it directly at the defender and out of the zone. How many times can we watch that same thing happen???

 

[Will Hunting]

Agreed...he's turning into kovalev...he really likes to skate around and play with the puck but then ends the play with a bad decision. He had the puck on the PP and had like 5 shot opportunities then he shoots it directly at the defender and out of the zone. How many times can we watch that same thing happen???

Geno is the least of our problems but his dumb shots just for the sake of shooting on the PP need to end. Those are alibistic shots with the zero chance for the success. As you have said, it´s either blocked by the nearest guy or it goes wide and out of the zone. Our powerplay really sucks and Geno is the big part of that. That said, he´s playing great ES hockey, even with mediocre linemates so I don´t want to criticize him too much. But dat powerplay looks extremely stupid now, I just can´t help myself.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

I'd like to think this decision, as well as some others we haven't seen yet have been in the works for some time. It doesn't make sense to come in day 1 and piss everybody off, you need to get some buy-in first. So I'd like to think that MJ as a reasonably smart guy, at the very least, sees many of the same things this board does, and is just making moves step by step to get the ship righted in time for the post season.

But some things, like the Kunitz issue in particular, probably need to be fixed by JR.

In the case of Adams, I can clearly see Morehouse saying something to MJ like "He's a fan favorite with the yinzers, he's going to set a total games record for us this year, I've got a lot of marketing tied up with blue collar Craig, so just play him until the post season". And then telling Steigy and his agents in the press to play up Adams.

Tell me that doesn't sound like classic Morehouse.

I don't know about "classic Morehouse" by classic chemtrails/Stevie Wonder isn't blind/Courtney killed Kurt "Morehouse" for sure.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I'd like to think this decision, as well as some others we haven't seen yet have been in the works for some time. It doesn't make sense to come in day 1 and piss everybody off, you need to get some buy-in first. So I'd like to think that MJ as a reasonably smart guy, at the very least, sees many of the same things this board does, and is just making moves step by step to get the ship righted in time for the post season.

But some things, like the Kunitz issue in particular, probably need to be fixed by JR.

In the case of Adams, I can clearly see Morehouse saying something to MJ like "He's a fan favorite with the yinzers, he's going to set a total games record for us this year, I've got a lot of marketing tied up with blue collar Craig, so just play him until the post season". And then telling Steigy and his agents in the press to play up Adams.

Tell me that doesn't sound like classic Morehouse.

Morehouse seems like a highly intelligent guy that was able to worm his way into significant power within the Lemieux Group. I don't think he would give two left balls about Adams. He doesn't sell tickets or merchandise. I've been all around the city and to a dozen games or more the last few years... never came across a single Adams jersey.

As much as Yinzer Nation likes their lunch pail guys, I can't imagine a soul boycotting Pens games over Adams sitting.

I don't have a ready answer for how he never missed any games as a healthy scratch in 6 years though. It's mind boggling.

 

[Pancakes]

Mike Johnston's relationship with Pouliot is such a boon for this team. I rather doubt any other coach would have given him this much of a chance, especially given that Pouliot struggled a bit after his initial call up. But MJ wisely stuck with him and now Pouliot is already blossoming into an awesome player for us and he doesn't even have a full season under his belt.

The hockey Pouliot played last night was just something to behold. If that's the type of player he can regularly be for us given time and some seasoning, then man is he ever going to be an elite player. He could have had 4 points last night, he was that good.

 

[steveg]

I think everyone brought forth a good effort tonight. But Kunitz isn't the only want who didn't finish, which is why I find this sort of logic and reasoning faulty. No one other than Crosby converted. Why aren't the Sutters or the Comeaus blamed for not finishing?

Michael -- nothing wrong with a different perspective, and certainly folks on this board can be susceptible to "group think" at times, where someone taking the counter-point can help balance that, particularly when the person making the counter-point is doing so through sound arguments.

That said, your arguments here are not sound -- you are straw-manning it. NO ONE, that I have seen, who is saying that Kunitz is playing poorly, is citing his FINISH as being the primary problem, or even A problem, in most cases. I think you know this; not sure why you aren't acknowledging that. I thought Kunitz looked AWFUL last night, mostly for the reasons tom_servo stated, which were...

The play dies on Kunitz's stick. He seems to have lost some balance on his skates. His shots are weak, and he tries to float them in on the corners from too far out. And his passes lack zip. And he can't receive passes very well. And when's the last time he's completed a one-timer? Maybe I'm not watching too closely. I think he's been demonstrably bad.

Very little mention there about his finish, but instead, the focus in that post (which I fully agree with) is on other aspects of his play. I'll add that he looks lazy and lackadaisical much of the time, in most games. Not sure why you keep straw-manning that people here are complaining about his FINISH...

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

The issue with Kunitz isn't, and never has been, about his production. It's about his effort and effectiveness--or rather, the lack thereof.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

That said, your arguments here are not sound -- you are straw-manning it. NO ONE, that I have seen, who is saying that Kunitz is playing poorly, is citing his FINISH as being the primary problem, or even A problem, in most cases. I think you know this; not sure why you aren't acknowledging that. I thought Kunitz looked AWFUL last night, mostly for the reasons tom_servo stated, which were.

I'll call out his finish.

He has been gifted top unit PP time and big minutes next to Crosby/Malkin. Yet he has 3 goals in his last 24 games.

In fact, he has one goal in his last 17 and that came on the PP.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Is there anything that isn't a problem with Kunitz right now?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Is there anything that isn't a problem with Kunitz right now?

I hear he makes a great cup of tea

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I hear he makes a great cup of tea

The trick is that the water has to be boiling, it's easier than getting coffee right. Kunitz probably doesn't boil the water.

 

[steveg]

I'll call out his finish.

He has been gifted top unit PP time and big minutes next to Crosby/Malkin. Yet he has 3 goals in his last 24 games.

In fact, he has one goal in his last 17 and that came on the PP.

Jiggy --

I fully agree with you, his finish has been awful!

My only point was, that in the first half to 2/3 of this thread, MANY people said Kunitz played a horrible game, and Michael's argument to most of those posts was "hey, he isn't the only one who didn't score last night, why are you singling him out?"

My point to him was, people have indeed been saying he has been playing awful -- but are generally focusing on his "lack of compete" issues, looking like he doesn't care, etc. etc., moreso than complaining about lack of points. To me, the thing Kunitz has fallen off the LEAST at, in his game, is his point totals...so to defend that part of his game, as an argument against someone saying "Kunitz looks terrible" is disingenuous IMO...

 

[cygnus47]

I'm pretty much happy with our entire game except the powerplay at the moment. I mean, I'd change a few things lineup wise, but I like the attitude that we're playing with right now and our mindset. Hopefully its not just another west trip which we don't learn from....

 

[Michael8771*]

Jiggy --

I fully agree with you, his finish has been awful!

My only point was, that in the first half to 2/3 of this thread, MANY people said Kunitz played a horrible game, and Michael's argument to most of those posts was "hey, he isn't the only one who didn't score last night, why are you singling him out?"

My point to him was, people have indeed been saying he has been playing awful -- but are generally focusing on his "lack of compete" issues, looking like he doesn't care, etc. etc., moreso than complaining about lack of points. To me, the thing Kunitz has fallen off the LEAST at, in his game, is his point totals...so to defend that part of his game, as an argument against someone saying "Kunitz looks terrible" is disingenuous IMO...

Visually Kunitz looks more engaged than he has previously. But again, the bottom line is he isn't finishing. I don't care about how a particular player looks TBH, it's if he is producing at a reasonable level relative to his talent and ability. That's my argument here. and contrary to your belief it is very sound. Kunitz isn't producing, but neither is anyone else to any large degree (of late) except Geno and Horny. You don't get style points here. EVERYONE who hasn't produced should be held accountable. It's not just what Kunitz does or doesn't do.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy --

I fully agree with you, his finish has been awful!

My only point was, that in the first half to 2/3 of this thread, MANY people said Kunitz played a horrible game, and Michael's argument to most of those posts was "hey, he isn't the only one who didn't score last night, why are you singling him out?"

My point to him was, people have indeed been saying he has been playing awful -- but are generally focusing on his "lack of compete" issues, looking like he doesn't care, etc. etc., moreso than complaining about lack of points. To me, the thing Kunitz has fallen off the LEAST at, in his game, is his point totals...so to defend that part of his game, as an argument against someone saying "Kunitz looks terrible" is disingenuous IMO...

I get your point, trust me. I'm just trying to emphasize the most important stat of all for Kunitz:

1 ES goal in the last 24 games.

No one in the top six... Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Comeau, or Hornqvist, is even close to that type of ES futility. Perron, who has been in a slump for the last dozen games, still has 5 ES goals in that span.

But ya, advanced stats...

 

[canadianguy77]

Visually Kunitz looks more engaged than he has previously. But again, the bottom line is he isn't finishing. I don't care about how a particular player looks TBH, it's if he is producing at a reasonable level relative to his talent and ability. That's my argument here. and contrary to your belief it is very sound. Kunitz isn't producing, but neither is anyone else to any large degree (of late) except Geno and Horny. You don't get style points here. EVERYONE who hasn't produced should be held accountable. It's not just what Kunitz does or doesn't do.

Unlike everyone else, save for maybe Sutter, he looks like vomit on the ice this year in almost every single game. He's no longer a top-6 player and should be treated as such.

 

[billybudd]

If BB doesn't make a change soon, will he make a change at the end of March/April?

In reference to that question, if he feels like it, yes. Boudreau is pretty capricious when it comes to turning on people and he's not above doing it just prior to or during the playoffs.

Usually it's goaltenders, but he's jerked around Alzner and Gordon, too.