News Article: Shane Pinto suspended 41 games for violating gambling rules

[BankStreetParade]

I'm not sure the going rate for an offensive dman that doesn't put up pts and averaged 16 mins a night is a 2nd, could we find a team that would give us a 2nd for Brannstrom that late in the game, not a lot of teams were looking for a bottom pair Dman signed for 2 mil, even fewer that had room for 2 mil. Even then, we clearly need depth on D, is moving on from Brannstrom the right move on ice? Kubalik at 2.5 for one year offers a similar issue, not a lot of teams with the space to incorporate him, fewer that have the need to add a top 9 scoring winger. Perhaps we could move Brannstrom or Kubalik, the problem is that they are part of our best 12 forwards and 6 D, so we're making the team worse moving them, and teams know we have to move them, we were clearly operating without a lot of leverage.

From your own description of the player, it sure sounds like we can move on from him. So, now we're arguing about the return but, most importantly, it's clear that paying assets to move Joseph - in a hypothetical trade where the ask from the acquiring team is the only known side of the equation - was not the only option on the table.

I never said nothing else was on the table, but anyone being honest with themselves can admit we were not dealing from a position of strength. It was widely reported Joseph was the one on the block, but yes, there were other options, none of which were without their own cons.

I'm glad we're finally on the same page. Paying assets to move Joseph was not the only option on the table and the criticism has been focused on a very narrow hypothetical scenario.

Oh... so you feel you are the arbiter of what can or should be discussed here? I wasn't aware you were putting your hat in the ring to be a mod, cool... Here's the thing, someone posted the article, just like many other articles get posted, to spur discussion from different view points, nothing more nothing less. So long as people are respectful of the site rules, all viewpoints are welcome, even negative ones... so maybe if discussing varied viewpoints upsets you it's you that should not do it here.

Here's the small issue, though, Nichols is not a journalist he's a blogger with a substack. And his disposition towards all things Senators is pretty established to be highly negative. We don't really need to discuss his credentials or his blogs to come to that conclusion. So why is he really the only blogger who ever gets posted on here with frequency? There's a lot of Sens podcasts, blogs, professional analysis and journalism coverage. Funny, I never see the stuff the LOSP guys upload getting posted. As a matter of fact, if you post anything that's not highly critical of the management and coaching it's bound to generate almost no discussion.

Sens lose to Buffalo? 53 pages of GDT.
Sens beat the Pens? 28 pages of GDT.

That's just such an odd coincidence, isn't it? But, sure, keep trying to tell me this board is not inherently biased to the negative.

 

[Micklebot]

From your own description of the player, it sure sounds like we can move on from him. So, now we're arguing about the return but, most importantly, it's clear that paying assets to move Joseph - in a hypothetical trade where the ask from the acquiring team is the only known side of the equation - was not the only option on the table.

I think Brannstrom plays an important role to this team now, but isn't worth much on the market. I think long term, we'll be moving on from Brannstrom, but ideally we don't do that until we have someone to fill his spot.

I'm glad we're finally on the same page. Paying assets to move Joseph was not the only option on the table and the criticism has been focused on a very narrow hypothetical scenario.

Again, never said he was. He was always the most likely option, and the one the team was rumoured to be pursuing. Branching out to other options though doesn't change the situation, we have no leverage, only bad options.

Here's the small issue, though, Nichols is not a journalist he's a blogger with a substack. And his disposition towards all things Senators is pretty established to be highly negative. We don't really need to discuss his credentials or his blogs to come to that conclusion. So why is he really the only blogger who ever gets posted on here with frequency? There's a lot of Sens podcasts, blogs, professional analysis and journalism coverage. Funny, I never see the stuff the LOSP guys upload getting posted. As a matter of fact, if you post anything that's not highly critical of the management and coaching it's bound to generate almost no discussion.

Sens lose to Buffalo? 53 pages of GDT.
Sens beat the Pens? 28 pages of GDT.

That's just such an odd coincidence, isn't it? But, sure, keep trying to tell me this board is not inherently biased to the negative.

lots of stuff gets posted regularly, we post tweets from all sorts, youtube videos for others, why get bent out of shape because someone posts a blogger? If he gets posted with frequency, it's because people think his articles bring something to discuss. You don't need to comment on posts about his articles, you don't need to even click on them and read them. Maybe the reason negative stuff gets more traction is because it inevitably gets posters like yourself complaining about it being too negative...

You want to see more LOSP stuff, go ahead and post it. You don't want to discuss Nichols stuff? You don't have to, you're free to ignore it.

 

[JD1]

I think Nichols was being presumptuous that a trade to open up space for Pinto wasn't going to be made prior to opening night if not for the league informing them of the investigation and they wouldn't get him signed but the crux of his point was the suspension doesn't absolve Dorion of putting the team in a position where you have to trade assets at a loss to make room for a player or see them miss time.

there is valid criticism to be made around how Dorion managed his roster and cap space this offseason, We signed 9mil in UFA before clearing the space needed to sign the guys we had. We waited until other team's rosters were mostly set in stone and they had limited to no cap space before presumably trying to unload a 2.5 to 3 mil contract to them, this is what is being cricized, not the hypothetical outcome in a parallel world where Pinto isn't suspended. Was he right about the potential ramifications of how Dorion managed his roster, maybe not, but the criticism was always about the management of the cap and roster, not the hypothetical outcome.


So in the end, he may have gotten the "so what" wrong, maybe the only ramifications of Dorions cap management are that we have to pay assets to dump a contract. Or maybe Pinto would have only missed part of camp and never any games. But the point was the criticisms are still as valid after the suspension as they were before it. The suspension affords Dorion more time to resolve the cap space conundrum, it doesn't remove it.

Yes, there were cap mgmt problems with where Dorion sat say two weeks prior to camp. I 100% agree with that.

But then somewhere before camp the league advised the team "he, we've got a problem here"

What I have an issue with is the statement about missing valuable development time. If you want to take issue with the cap mgmt, that's fine, you've got a point. But Pinto missing dev time only happened because of his own gambling issue, whatever the issue actually was. Suggesting that's on Dorion isn't really a fair reading of the cards and attributing the missed time to Dorion is not really what I'd consider high level thinking. And from someone that's got a very long track record of bitching about all things Sens, I can't imagine the bitching had Dorion resolved the cap issue a day before camp and then lost Pinto for 41 games. Now that would have been a powder keg.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes, there were cap mgmt problems with where Dorion sat say two weeks prior to camp. I 100% agree with that.

But then somewhere before camp the league advised the team "he, we've got a problem here"

What I have an issue with is the statement about missing valuable development time. If you want to take issue with the cap mgmt, that's fine, you've got a point. But Pinto missing dev time only happened because of his own gambling issue, whatever the issue actually was. Suggesting that's on Dorion isn't really a fair reading of the cards and attributing the missed time to Dorion is not really what I'd consider high level thinking. And from someone that's got a very long track record of bitching about all things Sens, I can't imagine the bitching had Dorion resolved the cap issue a day before camp and then lost Pinto for 41 games. Now that would have been a powder keg.

Ya, I concede that he's made a false assumption that either way Pinto was missing development time (pretty sure I conceded that in my first post on the subject). That's said, I'd also say it's not 100% that he'd be playing if not for the suspension, there's still the potential that a deal wouldn't get signed in time or a trade made, though him being in town towards the end of camp did look promising and there was speculation that deals were close.

But I don't think that was the crux of his point, he was pointing to the fact that the suspension doesn't wash away the issues that were at play before. and I think that's a valid point which isn't just pure negativity.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Ya, I concede that he's made a false assumption that either way Pinto was missing development time (pretty sure I conceded that in my first post on the subject). That's said, I'd also say it's not 100% that he'd be playing if not for the suspension, there's still the potential that a deal wouldn't get signed in time or a trade made, though him being in town towards the end of camp did look promising and there was speculation that deals were close.

But I don't think that was the crux of his point, he was pointing to the fact that the suspension doesn't wash away the issues that were at play before. and I think that's a valid point which isn't just pure negativity.

It is disappointing that Pinto will miss a half a season’s worth of development, but it’s not like the team had cleared any cap space to bring him into the fold. He was missing games worth of development regardless of the suspension and it should be acknowledged that his suspension certainly does not excuse Dorion for his cap mismanagement.

Lets break it down
It is disappointing that Pinto will miss a half a season’s worth of development, I am disappointed I think others feel the same; it is disappointing
but it’s not like the team had cleared any cap space to bring him into the fold Fact They had not cleared space him ;

Comment: This does not mean or infer that he will miss half a season because the team did not clear space .... if he wasn't suspended we do not know when the space would have been cleared , if that was the direction they were headed.

He was missing games worth of development regardless of the suspension Fact ... exhibition games, training camp and the first few games of the season (Games)
and it should be acknowledged that his suspension certainly does not excuse Dorion for his cap mismanagement. I agree with this; most of us do

I do not see the issue. If you want to twist it to mean something that was not said to prove something for some reason have at it but expect to be called out because it says
It is disappointing will miss half a season;
The team had not cleared space;
He was missing games worth of development;
Dorion mismanaged the cap regardless.

All true. There should be no issues here.

 

[JD1]

Ya, I concede that he's made a false assumption that either way Pinto was missing development time (pretty sure I conceded that in my first post on the subject). That's said, I'd also say it's not 100% that he'd be playing if not for the suspension, there's still the potential that a deal wouldn't get signed in time or a trade made, though him being in town towards the end of camp did look promising and there was speculation that deals were close.

But I don't think that was the crux of his point, he was pointing to the fact that the suspension doesn't wash away the issues that were at play before. and I think that's a valid point which isn't just pure negativity.

Absolutely we've still got an issue and it'll get resolved somehow between now and whenever we need the space to bring Pinto back. That's all good. I completely agree that's the case.

I also can agree with anyone that suggests it might not be Dorion that solves it because he might get canned.

I can also agree with someone that thinks maybe we can move Kubalik for a 2nd in January.

Or with someone that believes Joseph had a year last year where he was in and out of the lineup and never really got going but he's having a good year and is an asset that might generate a return. They're all valid opinions

The missing games bit is why I refer to his stuff as crap.

 

[JD1]

Lets break it down
It is disappointing that Pinto will miss a half a season’s worth of development, I am disappointed I think others feel the same; it is disappointing
but it’s not like the team had cleared any cap space to bring him into the fold Fact They had not cleared space him ;

Comment: This does not mean or infer that he will miss half a season because the team did not clear space .... if he wasn't suspended we do not know when the space would have been cleared , if that was the direction they were headed.

He was missing games worth of development regardless of the suspension Fact ... exhibition games, training camp and the first few games of the season (Games)
and it should be acknowledged that his suspension certainly does not excuse Dorion for his cap mismanagement. I agree with this; most of us do

I do not see the issue. If you want to twist it to mean something that was not said to prove something for some reason have at it but expect to be called out because it says
It is disappointing will miss half a season;
The team had not cleared space;
He was missing games worth of development;
Dorion mismanaged the cap regardless.

All true. There should be no issues here.

Kinda also seems it's a fact that before they had to clear space, they had a pretty good reason to believe they didn't need to.

 

[Big Muddy]

Seems some people are focused on or want to debate which player to trade. But that limits the discussion from other strategies that could have been used. There were signings that could have been delayed e.g, Brannstrom until Pinto was under contract. There were options, but they started to disappear as more players got signed.

 

[BankStreetParade]

I think Brannstrom plays an important role to this team now, but isn't worth much on the market. I think long term, we'll be moving on from Brannstrom, but ideally we don't do that until we have someone to fill his spot.

This is such convoluted logic. Ok, so he's playing an important role for us but also he's an offensive defenseman who doesn't put up points, plays 16 minutes a night and is a bottom-pairing guy. Which argument are you trying to make about this guy? He's basically worthless but also he's valuable to us, except in all of the ways you describe him.

Again, never said he was. He was always the most likely option, and the one the team was rumoured to be pursuing. Branching out to other options though doesn't change the situation, we have no leverage, only bad options.

Rumours and speculation...coming from the same people who said the Sens were "negotiating" with Pinto all while he was about to have the hammer dropped on him. You know why this board takes these rumours at face value? Because of the negativity. This board thirsts for it. He's the "most likely" option because it creates the most controversy and negativity.

lots of stuff gets posted regularly, we post tweets from all sorts, youtube videos for others, why get bent out of shape because someone posts a blogger? If he gets posted with frequency, it's because people think his articles bring something to discuss. You don't need to comment on posts about his articles, you don't need to even click on them and read them. Maybe the reason negative stuff gets more traction is because it inevitably gets posters like yourself complaining about it being too negative...

You want to see more LOSP stuff, go ahead and post it. You don't want to discuss Nichols stuff? You don't have to, you're free to ignore it.

Why do you think Nichols' posts get posted so often? I'll give you a hint: it's for the same reason that the GDTs where the team wins have nearly half as many posts as the ones where the team loses.

We have 8 GDTs this year. Here they are ranked in terms of engagement:
1. Oct 7 - CAR vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 56 pages
2. Oct 24 - BUF vs OTT - 630PM - LOSS - 53 pages
3. Oct 21 - DET vs OTT - 1PM - LOSS - 45 pages
4. Oct 26 - NYI vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 43 pages
5. Oct 18 - WSH vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 40 pages (Norris returns)
6. Oct 28 - PIT vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 28 pages
7. Oct 14 - PHI vs OTT - 1PM - WIN - 27 pages
8. Oct 15 - TB vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 25 pages

This forum has become too familiar and too comfortable with negativity. It's sought out. When the team wins, half of the engagement disappears. That's why guys like Nichols get posted. It's not because his material is actually worth discussing, it's because of the type of material is. That's what drives engagement here. It's clear that's what posters want. They want the guy who's always writing rage bait articles because rage is selling here like water in the desert.

 

[JD1]

Actually when you think about it, for something that apparently started early summer and the team was informed prior to camp, it's pretty damn remarkable the entire affair never leaked out.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Kinda also seems it's a fact that before they had to clear space, they had a pretty good reason to believe they didn't need to.

They don't need to clear space ? Not with Chabot on LTIR but its a fair assumption they will need to again. and that article was pre Chabot injury.
If Chabot was not on LTIR You can argue that they don't need to clear but they are pressed up against it and it certainly isn't wrong to believe they still have a cap issue.

 

[KingAlfie11]

Rumours and speculation...coming from the same people who said the Sens were "negotiating" with Pinto all while he was about to have the hammer dropped on him. You know why this board takes these rumours at face value? Because of the negativity. This board thirsts for it. He's the "most likely" option because it creates the most controversy and negativity.

Couldn't not agree more with you

 

[KingAlfie11]

This forum has become too familiar and too comfortable with negativity. It's sought out. When the team wins, half of the engagement disappears. That's why guys like Nichols get posted. It's not because his material is actually worth discussing, it's because of the type of material is. That's what drives engagement here. It's clear that's what posters want. They want the guy who's always writing rage bait articles because rage is selling here like water in the desert.

Yes, you are absolutely right. I'm telling you there's a good portion of posters here that don't even like the Sens, they want the team to fail so that they can say they were right.

 

[Micklebot]

Lets break it down
It is disappointing that Pinto will miss a half a season’s worth of development, I am disappointed I think others feel the same; it is disappointing
but it’s not like the team had cleared any cap space to bring him into the fold Fact They had not cleared space him ;

Comment: This does not mean or infer that he will miss half a season because the team did not clear space .... if he wasn't suspended we do not know when the space would have been cleared , if that was the direction they were headed.

He was missing games worth of development regardless of the suspension Fact ... exhibition games, training camp and the first few games of the season (Games)
and it should be acknowledged that his suspension certainly does not excuse Dorion for his cap mismanagement. I agree with this; most of us do

I do not see the issue. If you want to twist it to mean something that was not said to prove something for some reason have at it but expect to be called out because it says
It is disappointing will miss half a season;
The team had not cleared space;
He was missing games worth of development;
Dorion mismanaged the cap regardless.

All true. There should be no issues here.

Missing games regardless is disputable.

If the league told Dorion to rescind any offers when they informed the team about the investigation around the start of camp, presumably Dorion opted to press the pause button on any trade he had lined up to clear space.

Dorion is fair game for criticism for how he handled the budget and Pinto situation right up to the moment he was informed about the investigation, imo. At that point, rushing to make a trade to clear space would have done more harm than good. Signing Pinto to a contract was also no longer an option since the league basically told him not to. The exact timing of when he was told, I'm not sure, around the start of camp is my understanding.

 

[Micklebot]

This is such convoluted logic. Ok, so he's playing an important role for us but also he's an offensive defenseman who doesn't put up points, plays 16 minutes a night and is a bottom-pairing guy. Which argument are you trying to make about this guy? He's basically worthless but also he's valuable to us, except in all of the ways you describe him.

It's a pretty straight forward arguement. We need a 5 D. He can be that for now, though isn't likely in the long term plans for that role. That's not worth a 2nd.

Rumours and speculation...coming from the same people who said the Sens were "negotiating" with Pinto all while he was about to have the hammer dropped on him. You know why this board takes these rumours at face value? Because of the negativity. This board thirsts for it. He's the "most likely" option because it creates the most controversy and negativity.

Insiders don't necessarily get word of things real time and there's also the potential that Dorion kept working on things like a trade while he waited for the final word. The league informed him there was an investigation, and to hold off for the findings. They told them the details late just before the release of the suspension, at least according to the reporting. So ya, maybe he did continue to negotiate, just in case the findings weren't as damaging as expected. I would hope that he'd be prepared if the suspension wasn't as bad as it turned out.

Why do you think Nichols' posts get posted so often? I'll give you a hint: it's for the same reason that the GDTs where the team wins have nearly half as many posts as the ones where the team loses.

We have 8 GDTs this year. Here they are ranked in terms of engagement:
1. Oct 7 - CAR vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 56 pages
2. Oct 24 - BUF vs OTT - 630PM - LOSS - 53 pages
3. Oct 21 - DET vs OTT - 1PM - LOSS - 45 pages
4. Oct 26 - NYI vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 43 pages
5. Oct 18 - WSH vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 40 pages (Norris returns)
6. Oct 28 - PIT vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 28 pages
7. Oct 14 - PHI vs OTT - 1PM - WIN - 27 pages
8. Oct 15 - TB vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 25 pages

This forum has become too familiar and too comfortable with negativity. It's sought out. When the team wins, half of the engagement disappears. That's why guys like Nichols get posted. It's not because his material is actually worth discussing, it's because of the type of material is. That's what drives engagement here. It's clear that's what posters want. They want the guy who's always writing rage bait articles because rage is selling here like water in the desert.

Honestly I wonder how many posts we can get this thread up to based on your raging about negativity. You seem to be a repeat customer in these tangents. We've probably got a page alone out your efforts in this thread.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Missing games regardless is disputable.

If the league told Dorion to rescind any offers when they informed the team about the investigation around the start of camp, presumably Dorion opted to press the pause button on any trade he had lined up to clear space.

Dorion is fair game for criticism for how he handled the budget and Pinto situation right up to the moment he was informed about the investigation, imo. At that point, rushing to make a trade to clear space would have done more harm than good. Signing Pinto to a contract was also no longer an option since the league basically told him not to. The exact timing of when he was told, I'm not sure, around the start of camp is my understanding.

Its disputable with specifics on the timeline ... I don't know the specifics but I believe the Sens knew that there was an investigation around training camp and didn't rescind the offers until the NHL firmed up its investigation . There has been some speculation when that happened. One thing I saw was that it was around the time Pinto left Ottawa. I don't know anything about pauses between training camp and the time they rescinded the offer and I don't know exactly when that was. So yes its disputable but we can't say its not accurate that he missed games. We do know he missed games from training camp until he was suspended.

 

[Micklebot]

Its disputable with specifics on the timeline ... I don't know the specifics but I believe the Sens knew that there was an investigation around training camp and didn't rescind the offers until the NHL firmed up its investigation . There has been some speculation when that happened. One thing I saw was that it was around the time Pinto left Ottawa. I don't know anything about pauses between training camp and the time they rescinded the offer and I don't know exactly when that was. So yes its disputable but we can't say its not accurate that he missed games. We do know he missed games from training camp until he was suspended.

Sure, he missed games, but the cause is unknown. It could be because we still didn't have a deal in place, or it could be because the NHL told us to hold off. That's all I'm getting at, there's some assumptions that may or may not be accurate, and it's fair to point that out.

Training camp started 21 Sep.
Pinto arrives in Ottawa 8 Oct
Regular season starts 10 Oct
Pinto returned home 13 Oct
Pinto suspended 26 Oct, reports were the team was given more details a day or so prior.

So 3 weeks or so from the start of camp to him returning home, and another week and a half before it's announced he's suspended. Reports were the team was informed something was up around the start of camp, something must have happened to have Pinto return home, I don't buy that there was too much attention so I'd lean towards the team getting the sense things were not good on the Pinto investigation front. Now, the question is did we have everything in place and were waiting to pull the trigger, only to find out this wasn't going to end well, or were we still up shites creek without a paddle. Who knows.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure, he missed games, but the cause is unknown. It could be because we still didn't have a deal in place, or it could be because the NHL told us to hold off. That's all I'm getting at, there's some assumptions that may or may not be accurate, and it's fair to point that out.

Training camp started 21 Sep.
Pinto arrives in Ottawa 8 Oct
Regular season starts 10 Oct
Pinto returned home 13 Oct
Pinto suspended 26 Oct, reports were the team was given more details a day or so prior.

So 3 weeks or so from the start of camp to him returning home, and another week and a half before it's announced he's suspended. Reports were the team was informed something was up around the start of camp, something must have happened to have Pinto return home, I don't buy that there was too much attention so I'd lean towards the team getting the sense things were not good on the Pinto investigation front. Now, the question is did we have everything in place and were waiting to pull the trigger, only to find out this wasn't going to end well, or were we still up shites creek without a paddle. Who knows.

good recap nice to see the dates lined up like that. So if he missed regular season games there would not be many even if the option to sign was alive.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

This is such convoluted logic. Ok, so he's playing an important role for us but also he's an offensive defenseman who doesn't put up points, plays 16 minutes a night and is a bottom-pairing guy. Which argument are you trying to make about this guy? He's basically worthless but also he's valuable to us, except in all of the ways you describe him.

Rumours and speculation...coming from the same people who said the Sens were "negotiating" with Pinto all while he was about to have the hammer dropped on him. You know why this board takes these rumours at face value? Because of the negativity. This board thirsts for it. He's the "most likely" option because it creates the most controversy and negativity.

Why do you think Nichols' posts get posted so often? I'll give you a hint: it's for the same reason that the GDTs where the team wins have nearly half as many posts as the ones where the team loses.

We have 8 GDTs this year. Here they are ranked in terms of engagement:
1. Oct 7 - CAR vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 56 pages
2. Oct 24 - BUF vs OTT - 630PM - LOSS - 53 pages
3. Oct 21 - DET vs OTT - 1PM - LOSS - 45 pages
4. Oct 26 - NYI vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 43 pages
5. Oct 18 - WSH vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 40 pages (Norris returns)
6. Oct 28 - PIT vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 28 pages
7. Oct 14 - PHI vs OTT - 1PM - WIN - 27 pages
8. Oct 15 - TB vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 25 pages

This forum has become too familiar and too comfortable with negativity. It's sought out. When the team wins, half of the engagement disappears. That's why guys like Nichols get posted. It's not because his material is actually worth discussing, it's because of the type of material is. That's what drives engagement here. It's clear that's what posters want. They want the guy who's always writing rage bait articles because rage is selling here like water in the desert.

I think this is overly simplistic and likely confabulation.

When the Sens win I am on a goood mood and carry on with my night, check in again the next day. When they lose, I often head to HF boards while I’m “stewing”, seeing if what I saw matches what others saw, maybe just to vent. I am not “seeking out negativity”, and I suspect others are in the same boat.

In a situations I remain engaged. I’ve been engaged through the worst of it. Others have been here through good times and bad times as well.

I also don’t see how trends of thread lengths on win vs loss translates to a “seeking out negativity” conclusion.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think this is overly simplistic and likely confabulation.

When the Sens win I am on a goood mood and carry on with my night, check in again the next day. When they lose, I often head to HF boards while I’m “stewing”, seeing if what I saw matches what others saw, maybe just to vent. I am not “seeking out negativity”, and I suspect others are in the same boat.

In a situations I remain engaged. I’ve been engaged through the worst of it. Others have been here through good times and bad times as well.

I also don’t see how trends of thread lengths on win vs loss translates to a “seeking out negativity” conclusion.

well said. A good point of view that appears not to have been considered... wait now, who is being negative again?

 

[5ive4Fighting]

This is such convoluted logic. Ok, so he's playing an important role for us but also he's an offensive defenseman who doesn't put up points, plays 16 minutes a night and is a bottom-pairing guy. Which argument are you trying to make about this guy? He's basically worthless but also he's valuable to us, except in all of the ways you describe him.

Rumours and speculation...coming from the same people who said the Sens were "negotiating" with Pinto all while he was about to have the hammer dropped on him. You know why this board takes these rumours at face value? Because of the negativity. This board thirsts for it. He's the "most likely" option because it creates the most controversy and negativity.

Why do you think Nichols' posts get posted so often? I'll give you a hint: it's for the same reason that the GDTs where the team wins have nearly half as many posts as the ones where the team loses.

We have 8 GDTs this year. Here they are ranked in terms of engagement:
1. Oct 7 - CAR vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 56 pages
2. Oct 24 - BUF vs OTT - 630PM - LOSS - 53 pages
3. Oct 21 - DET vs OTT - 1PM - LOSS - 45 pages
4. Oct 26 - NYI vs OTT - 7PM - LOSS - 43 pages
5. Oct 18 - WSH vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 40 pages (Norris returns)
6. Oct 28 - PIT vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 28 pages
7. Oct 14 - PHI vs OTT - 1PM - WIN - 27 pages
8. Oct 15 - TB vs OTT - 7PM - WIN - 25 pages

This forum has become too familiar and too comfortable with negativity. It's sought out. When the team wins, half of the engagement disappears. That's why guys like Nichols get posted. It's not because his material is actually worth discussing, it's because of the type of material is. That's what drives engagement here. It's clear that's what posters want. They want the guy who's always writing rage bait articles because rage is selling here like water in the desert.

In my experience it's the standard arc of pretty much any online fan community on any topic. Invest in something long enough and it's eventually going to disappoint you for something. Eventually, they all skew negative. And it's fine almost all of the time. If an opinion is well argued its easy to respect it even if you don't agree with it. But when it rises to the level of straight up Dorian Derangment Syndrome it gets exhausting. And avoid GDT when we're losing if you care about your mental health. Because holy hell...

 

[JD1]

Dorion is fair game for criticism for how he handled the budget and Pinto situation right up to the moment he was informed about the investigation, imo. At that point, rushing to make a trade to clear space would have done more harm than good. Signing Pinto to a contract was also no longer an option since the league basically told him not to. The exact timing of when he was told, I'm not sure, around the start of camp is my understanding.

Precisely my view as well.

It's a pretty straight forward arguement. We need a 5 D. He can be that for now, though isn't likely in the long term plans for that role. That's not worth a 2nd.


Insiders don't necessarily get word of things real time and there's also the potential that Dorion kept working on things like a trade while he waited for the final word. The league informed him there was an investigation, and to hold off for the findings. They told them the details late just before the release of the suspension, at least according to the reporting. So ya, maybe he did continue to negotiate, just in case the findings weren't as damaging as expected. I would hope that he'd be prepared if the suspension wasn't as bad as it turned out.


Honestly I wonder how many posts we can get this thread up to based on your raging about negativity. You seem to be a repeat customer in these tangents. We've probably got a page alone out your efforts in this thread.

Yes, I'd presume he'd continue to negotiate both a contract and a trade, with everything on hold waiting word from the league.

 

[JD1]

Sure, he missed games, but the cause is unknown. It could be because we still didn't have a deal in place, or it could be because the NHL told us to hold off. That's all I'm getting at, there's some assumptions that may or may not be accurate, and it's fair to point that out.

Training camp started 21 Sep.
Pinto arrives in Ottawa 8 Oct
Regular season starts 10 Oct
Pinto returned home 13 Oct
Pinto suspended 26 Oct, reports were the team was given more details a day or so prior.

So 3 weeks or so from the start of camp to him returning home, and another week and a half before it's announced he's suspended. Reports were the team was informed something was up around the start of camp, something must have happened to have Pinto return home, I don't buy that there was too much attention so I'd lean towards the team getting the sense things were not good on the Pinto investigation front. Now, the question is did we have everything in place and were waiting to pull the trigger, only to find out this wasn't going to end well, or were we still up shites creek without a paddle. Who knows.

This was obviously a delicate situation and it was a negotiated settlement between the union and the league, with no right to appeal

I think the most likely situation is the league knew when they informed the Sens "this guy isn't going to be playing"

Getting the regular season kicked off is busy for everyone. The teams, the league and the NHLPA. The suspension was announced and it was retroactive. Based on that, does it not seem reasonable that all parties knew he wasn't starting the season before it started? That they were all waiting for the axe to fall and knew it would be severe, just now how severe

 

[Micklebot]

This was obviously a delicate situation and it was a negotiated settlement between the union and the league, with no right to appeal

I think the most likely situation is the league knew when they informed the Sens "this guy isn't going to be playing"

Getting the regular season kicked off is busy for everyone. The teams, the league and the NHLPA. The suspension was announced and it was retroactive. Based on that, does it not seem reasonable that all parties knew he wasn't starting the season before it started? That they were all waiting for the axe to fall and knew it would be severe, just now how severe

I think there are a number of reasonable possible explanations and that's certainly one of them.

I'm honestly willing to give the team the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that once informed by the league they had a pretty good idea of what was up, though it is curious the Pinto was in town until shortly after the season started, it's plausible that's when they really started to understand how serious things were.

That said, I also expect that until things were official, they'd carry on as close to normal as possible, just in case they got good news.

My assumption is they probably would have made a move and signed Pinto on time for the home opener if not for the investigation, I may be wrong, or off by a bit, but I'm essentially with the benefit of hindsight not going to be critical of anything after camp started unless more info comes out.

 

[aragorn]

When Pinto came to town the talk was that they had a deal in place & were about to pull the trigger on the deal until the league notified them about their investigation results. That makes the most sense & PD waited to get Pinto's price down to what they could afford given the trade deal they had in place. Not sure how any of this is PD's fault, in fact, this seems to have worked out in his favour & signing Pinto in future will be a lot cheaper for the team & cap.