Confirmed with Link: Shanahan Presser (Video)

AcerComputer

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To some, Dubas is seemingly irreplaceable. I’m not sure why they think that though. Five years ago, he wasn’t even a GM in the league. And since becoming one, he’s overseen the team winning exactly one playoff round.

Meanwhile, how many other GM’s not named Dubas have won Stanley Cups and won multiple rounds in the playoffs? Many.

One such GM, is a none other than a guy named Lou Lamoriello, who was allowed to walk so that Dubas could replace him.

Like everyone, Dubas is replaceable and I’m not too sure why his cultists think he isn’t, especially given the teams poor playoff performance.
You can't measure the success of a GM based on playoff rounds won. That's dinosaur thinking. If true Brian Burke would be a great GM because he won a cup in Anaheim, he then proceeded to destroy the Leafs setting them back 8 years.
 
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Buds17

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You can't measure the success of a GM based on playoff rounds won. That's dinosaur thinking. If true Brian Burke would be a great GM because he won a cup in Anaheim, he then proceeded to destroy the Leafs setting them back 8 years.
Might it be fair then to state that Burke has been better in that role overall while Dubas was better while with the Leafs?
 

hockeywiz542

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Nick Kypreos' take on the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs

Breakfast Television

May 23, 2023

Sid is joined by Nick Kypreos, host of “Real Kyper & Bourne" on Sportsnet 590 the FAN to discuss the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
 

banks

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Shanny seems like someone who is seriously overthinking things right now. Just the look on his face is like "I've thought this through a million different ways, so now I just have a million more possibilities to go over and then everything will be fine."
 
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hockeywiz542

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Fw0bB1nagAIN6I0

 

nuck

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You can't measure the success of a GM based on playoff rounds won. That's dinosaur thinking. If true Brian Burke would be a great GM because he won a cup in Anaheim, he then proceeded to destroy the Leafs setting them back 8 years.
Burke was a success in Vancouver and Anaheim for a few years. It didn't make him successful in Toronto but it didn't diminish what he did with those prior clubs. So how then to measure the success if it isn't winning?
 
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hockeywiz542

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harold_ballard.jpg


We are now past the ShanaPlan. We’re on to the ShanaSideshow.

It no longer feels like the Maple Leafs have a plan.

Kyle Dubas was apparently the plan, right up until he asked for more money and, perhaps more telling, more power. Streamlining how hockey decisions were made.

The man who was probably getting streamlined out of hockey decisions — president Brendan Shanahan — then decided to “part ways” with the one of the smartest minds in hockey.


It was Ballardian to its core. It said I’m the boss. It might have included a few F-bombs. It wasn’t made out of an real rational idea. Shanahan’s feelings were hurt. Perhaps he felt his job was in jeopardy. Let’s remember that Shahanan has never been a scout, or GM or any kind of talent evaluator. But he’s the boss.

Like Radko Gudas’s primal scream into Joseph Woll’s face, the inner Shanahan — he of 2,489 career penalty minutes – rose to the surface and now, here we are.

Cantankerous owner Harold Ballard — who basically ran the franchise into the ground in his nearly three decades running the show — would be proud.

Moving on from Dubas might be the right decision. But it wasn’t made for any of the right reasons. Shanahan had bought in to Dubas’s way of building team: Skill, speed and possession-based hockey. His research and development department was able to put dollar vales on particular skills. Not everyone loved it. No grit. No physicality. Dubas adjusted. Maybe too late.

We’re on to the sideshow now. If the new GM sees his hand forced to the point where he has to trade Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner before their no-movement clauses kick in July 1, well, wouldn’t that just erase everything Shanahan sold MLSE ownership on. They won’t get the same quality of player back. Maybe more and cheaper players.


Playoff dates, and the revenue and ratings that come with them, goodbye. Especially in a division where Buffalo, Detroit and Ottawa are all on the rise.

This has to be Shanahan’s last GM hire. After all, how many can one president go through?

He fired Dave Nonis, went briefly with a Dubas-Mark Hunter tandem, said hello and goodbye to Lou Lamoriello, lost Hunter with Dubas’s ascension, and now has parted ways with Dubas.

He said he wants an experienced GM. It will be curious to see if an experienced executive will put up with a president who wants to be more than a rubber stamp on personnel moves.
 
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hockeywiz542

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Maple Leafs Move-on From Dubas, Playoff OT Showdowns, & Tkachuk's Evolution | R&D

The Ray & Dregs Podcast

May 22, 2023

23:00 - Bizarre Dubas Situation, Maple Leafs GM Search
 

hockeywiz542

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The Toronto Maple Leafs' decision to part ways with Kyle Dubas is defensible in a vacuum, but as more information trickles out about their choice, the worse it looks.

Dubas has a resume that's far from unimpeachable, and there's a chance his replacement helps drive the kind of postseason success that's been elusive for this franchise. From a results standpoint, the decision may look fine for Toronto in the years to come.

Even so, it's starting to seem awfully unlikely the Maple Leafs' choice to move on was made for the right reasons.


On Friday, Brendan Shanahan laid out a timeline for the move in an unusual level of detail. If you take the Maple Leafs president at his word, his mind was changed after Dubas spoke to the media on Monday and expressed some consternation about the toll the GM job had taken on his family.

According to Shanahan, there was a "dramatic shift" in his thinking after the press conference.

While his decision to part ways with Dubas likely came down to multiple factors, there are three primary ways to interpret the situation.

1. Shanahan began to doubt Dubas had the stomach for the GM role after he expressed some doubts in public.

2. This was ultimately a contract dispute where Dubas asked for more money and/or control over decision making than the Maple Leafs were willing to give.

3. Dubas and Shanahan's working relationship deteriorated due to the latter using his power to impact transactions, as reported by The Athletic's James Mirtle.


If No. 1 was the driving force behind the decision then Shanahan comes off as harsh and lacking empathy for someone expressing themselves honestly. Being the GM of the Maple Leafs is a job that comes with plenty of pressure and public scrutiny, and Dubas feeling the weight of that in a difficult moment for the team is a relatable human response — not a sign of weakness.

If it's No. 2 that's reasonable to an extent, but the Maple Leafs print money and losing an executive they want over an amount that's inconsequential to the franchise seems silly. It would also be easy to present that situation as just an unfortunate reality of the business, instead of going as deep on the series of events as Shanahan did. Even if something related to the scope of the role was the sticking point rather than the financial component, that's something the team wouldn't have to elaborate on in public.

Perhaps No. 3 is the best explanation.

That means we're talking about a power struggle which doesn't paint Shanahan and the Maple Leafs in the best light. In this case, Shanahan felt that having a tight grip on decision-making was more important than collaborating with Dubas. It's possible that Shanahan is the superior hockey operations mind, but it's also worth noting that he came to the Maple Leafs with a background as a NHL executive and disciplinarian, not a prolific team builder.
 

AcerComputer

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Burke was a success in Vancouver and Anaheim for a few years. It didn't make him successful in Toronto but it didn't diminish what he did with those prior clubs. So how then to measure the success if it isn't winning?
Burke was a dinosaur in the game. What worked 10-20 years ago doesn't work today. When you misevaluate your team to that degree, it's unforgivable. I think the sign of a successful GM is how he manages the assets of the team (Prospects, Draft picks, roster players, etc). Is he making moves that balance the present and the future. Is he going to make a bad trade at the deadline to save his job but damage the future of the organization for personal gain (ala George McPhee in WSH trading away Forsberg for Erat).

I think there are a lot of GMs who set the Leafs back, and Dubas had to clean up their mess and it handcuffed his ability to be as successful as he could be. I think it is extremely difficult to win a cup. There are 31 teams disappointed every year. I think there is a tremendous amount of luck that goes into winning that cannot be accounted for (Team is healthy, hot goaltending, getting the bounces and the calls, other team has injuries, playoff matchup, etc).

People are too results oriented, and not understanding that the difference between winning and losing is razor thin, especially in a league with this much parity. If PIT beats a terrible CHI team, bottom of the league, they would have made the playoffs and knocked out FLA from the WC2 spot. No one would be talking about Bill Zito and Paul Maurice and how they are both geniuses, and what a good signing Bobrovsky was. Nevermind he has been brutal since they signed him, and they couldn't get rid of him for free. He has 10 good games, and everyone forgets.
 
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hfman

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I honestly find it kind of odd that the President of hockey operations of a multi billion dollar corporation comes out to a press conference and spills the entire story of private behind-the-doors negotiations between management personnel.............


Did Dubas know that his boss would come out to a public presentation and re-hash their private interactions to a bunch of media vultures like that? Talk about deceit!!

What is a future GM going to think about this? That every time Shanahan and I discuss a contract, he's going to turn around and air out the whole thing to the media scum at a press conference if I decide to not sign the deal?


something stinks there, the whole press conference isn't at face value because professionals like that don't do things like this


they can say whatever they want at a press conference but the reality is that none of us have any idea of what's really going on behind these multi-billion dollar corporations' closed doors
I swear the guys at TSN read my post (above) before putting together this video lol:

 
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Hockeysawks

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Burke was a dinosaur in the game. What worked 10-20 years ago doesn't work today. When you misevaluate your team to that degree, it's unforgivable. I think the sign of a successful GM is how he manages the assets of the team (Prospects, Draft picks, roster players, etc). Is he making moves that balance the present and the future. Is he going to make a bad trade at the deadline to save his job but damage the future of the organization for personal gain (ala George McPhee in WSH trading away Forsberg for Erat).

I think there are a lot of GMs who set the Leafs back, and Dubas had to clean up their mess and it handcuffed his ability to be as successful as he could be. I think it is extremely difficult to win a cup. There are 31 teams disappointed every year. I think there is a tremendous amount of luck that goes into winning that cannot be accounted for (Team is healthy, hot goaltending, getting the bounces and the calls, other team has injuries, playoff matchup, etc).

People are too results oriented, and not understanding that the difference between winning and losing is razor thin, especially in a league with this much parity. If PIT beats a terrible CHI team, bottom of the league, they would have made the playoffs and knocked out FLA from the WC2 spot. No one would be talking about Bill Zito and Paul Maurice and how they are both geniuses, and what a good signing Bobrovsky was. Nevermind he has been brutal since they signed him, and they couldn't get rid of him for free. He has 10 good games, and everyone forgets.
He walk into the best situation in NHL history.
He decided to build around JT and it was a mistake, they are still good so it's not the end
 

AcerComputer

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He walk into the best situation in NHL history.
He decided to build around JT and it was a mistake, they are still good so it's not the end
Really? He was saddled with the Zaitsev contract, had to give up Brown to offload him. He then had to trade a 1st to offload Marleau in order to be cap compliant. Then a once in a 100 year pandemic hit and the cap didn't go up as predicted. Considering he was a rookie GM, he probably had a lot of restrictions on him in terms of moves he could make. Am I missing something?
 
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Hockeysawks

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Really? He was saddled with the Zaitsev contract, had to give up Brown to offload him. He then had to trade a 1st to offload Marleau in order to be cap compliant. Then a once in a 100 year pandemic hit and the cap didn't go up as predicted. Considering he was a rookie GM, he probably had a lot of restrictions on him in terms of moves he could make. Am I missing something?
No he didn't have to give up anyone. He should have built around M&M instead he did what the old leafs use to do. Singed the UFA to a huge retirement pckage.
He could have had Brown,Hyman,Kadri or tradeded Kadri for Dubios or many things with that JT contract. He screwed himself with Mathews contract and Marners.
He should have kept PM for the last year and that draft pick. He should have waited a year or 2 on Ziestov.This should be the leafs window. Hes got core pieces in thier 30's
 

hockeywiz542

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Shanahan Has Told The “Core Four” He Expects to Keep Them Together

Another NHL insider, Chris Johnston of the Steve Dangle Podcast Network, recently reported that Shanahan called each of the Maple Leafs’ core four players and told them the organization intends to keep them together. All four want to stay put, and now the franchise has said, ‘Yep, that’s the plan.’ That’s an interesting “promise” to make considering it’s possible that every single GM who applies for the job might believe trading one of them is the only real way to fix this roster.

In the case of Treliving, someone who isn’t likely afraid to speak his mind, would he say he thinks one of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, or William Nylander should be dealt, if he believes that’s the best path forward? One would assume so. And, if he does, would that take him out of the running considering Shanahan just told his stars that they won’t be traded? It would be an intriguing way to start an already soap opera-like relationship.

That leaves Treliving in a curious spot. While it’s not known what his vision for the team might be, if it isn’t keeping to core intact, how does he sidestep what Shanahan has essentially already promised his top-end talent? For that matter, how does any experienced GM who wants to be upfront and honest about their thoughts and implement “their plan” for a team that continues to disappoint?

Is This Shanahan Already Blocking Moves By a New GM?

Even if Shanahan and a new GM are on the same page when it comes to the “core four”, what happens if the GM wants to make other moves and Shanahan isn’t favorable to them? The fact that Shanahan didn’t wait to approach his stars before a new GM was hired already speaks to the notion that his top priority isn’t the vision of whoever joins this team as its manager. Shanahan essentially said, ‘I’m going to be hiring someone, and they might think one thing but don’t worry guys, we’ll keep you together.’


This is why Kyle Dubas was rumored to be so frustrated. Shanahan was reportedly frequently stepping in and not letting his manager make key decisions. With this report coming out by Johnston, every GM interviewing for this position now knows that Shanahan will talk to his players but not ask for his GM’s opinion first. How does a new GM who wants any sort of autonomy operate under these conditions? Moreover, if all of those applicants walk away from the gig because they don’t have a real say in roster decisions, what candidates are left beyond GMs will simply be a “yes person” to Shanahan’s every thought when it comes to hockey decisions?

Can A New GM Work Around Shanahan’s Constant Interference?

Some people will make the argument that every GM has a boss and that huge decisions need to go through a certain chain of command before the deal is done. That is probably accurate. Few GMs have full autonomy over all roster decisions. At the same time, these GMs probably want to be included in important discussions with the key players on the team and Shanahan has already proven he’s willing to make assurances without a new GM in the loop.

Maybe this was a one-time thing. Maybe it wasn’t. Any GM that comes in an interview for this job needs to know and be comfortable with how everything operates with Shanahan at the top of the food chain. And, if you cross him, we’ve already seen what happens to those who want him removed from the equation. Bye, bye.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
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Shanahan Has Told The “Core Four” He Expects to Keep Them Together

Another NHL insider, Chris Johnston of the Steve Dangle Podcast Network, recently reported that Shanahan called each of the Maple Leafs’ core four players and told them the organization intends to keep them together. All four want to stay put, and now the franchise has said, ‘Yep, that’s the plan.’ That’s an interesting “promise” to make considering it’s possible that every single GM who applies for the job might believe trading one of them is the only real way to fix this roster.

In the case of Treliving, someone who isn’t likely afraid to speak his mind, would he say he thinks one of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, or William Nylander should be dealt, if he believes that’s the best path forward? One would assume so. And, if he does, would that take him out of the running considering Shanahan just told his stars that they won’t be traded? It would be an intriguing way to start an already soap opera-like relationship.

That leaves Treliving in a curious spot. While it’s not known what his vision for the team might be, if it isn’t keeping to core intact, how does he sidestep what Shanahan has essentially already promised his top-end talent? For that matter, how does any experienced GM who wants to be upfront and honest about their thoughts and implement “their plan” for a team that continues to disappoint?

Is This Shanahan Already Blocking Moves By a New GM?

Even if Shanahan and a new GM are on the same page when it comes to the “core four”, what happens if the GM wants to make other moves and Shanahan isn’t favorable to them? The fact that Shanahan didn’t wait to approach his stars before a new GM was hired already speaks to the notion that his top priority isn’t the vision of whoever joins this team as its manager. Shanahan essentially said, ‘I’m going to be hiring someone, and they might think one thing but don’t worry guys, we’ll keep you together.’


This is why Kyle Dubas was rumored to be so frustrated. Shanahan was reportedly frequently stepping in and not letting his manager make key decisions. With this report coming out by Johnston, every GM interviewing for this position now knows that Shanahan will talk to his players but not ask for his GM’s opinion first. How does a new GM who wants any sort of autonomy operate under these conditions? Moreover, if all of those applicants walk away from the gig because they don’t have a real say in roster decisions, what candidates are left beyond GMs will simply be a “yes person” to Shanahan’s every thought when it comes to hockey decisions?

Can A New GM Work Around Shanahan’s Constant Interference?

Some people will make the argument that every GM has a boss and that huge decisions need to go through a certain chain of command before the deal is done. That is probably accurate. Few GMs have full autonomy over all roster decisions. At the same time, these GMs probably want to be included in important discussions with the key players on the team and Shanahan has already proven he’s willing to make assurances without a new GM in the loop.

Maybe this was a one-time thing. Maybe it wasn’t. Any GM that comes in an interview for this job needs to know and be comfortable with how everything operates with Shanahan at the top of the food chain. And, if you cross him, we’ve already seen what happens to those who want him removed from the equation. Bye, bye.
Such a dramtic article
I don't buy he told the core 4 that - he may have made mention of it to the media, but what is he goin to say? "We'll look at trading Mitch"?
 

TakeTheBody

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Jan 10, 2018
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Wizard Of Oz. When you reveal what's behind the curtain it's rarely good. Shanahan is flawed, way back from Craig Janney's wife to now feeling insecure in Dubas wants his job, or wants more power in his GM duties.
Dubas is also flawed, bringing his family into this and now battling in the media from " sources ". I don't blame Dubas for wanting more $$$, you never accept the first offer, I don't blame him for wanting more powers in his job if he felt Shanahan was obstructing him.
Most people here want the team blown up. I prefer the team tinkered with and the management blown up. If it starts at the top the Leafs are intercoursed.
 

hockeywiz542

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May 26, 2008
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Confusion and hurt ripples through Maple Leafs in wake of Kyle Dubas’ dismissal

GettyImages-1255072142-1024x719.jpg


Anger. Confusion. Shock. Disappointment.

Those are some of the feelings reverberating around the Maple Leafs right now in the aftermath of Kyle Dubas’ firing as general manager last week.

The Athletic reached out to several people who work for the Leafs this week. Anonymity was granted to them as they were not permitted by the team to speak to the media.


This story reflects their feelings at the moment and speaks to a level of disillusionment that team president Brendan Shanahan and the next GM of the Leafs will have to work to unwind.

“I’m in mourning right now,” one person who worked in the front office with Dubas during his time with the Leafs said.

There’s a real sense of loss for staff members. Dubas was their leader and the one who hired many of them. Suddenly, he was gone a week after the season came to an end – and without, in their minds, a satisfactory explanation as to why.

“It doesn’t make any sense,” a Leafs front office member said of the way Dubas was let go. “That’s why it’s disappointing.”

Shanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.


........................

It’s security they have because of Dubas.

Though he wasn’t offered an extension himself, not until after the trade deadline, Dubas fought to extend staff members who entered last season with expiring contracts. He got them extended with one, two, and three-year deals.

At least one staff member was inclined to ride things out with Dubas for an uncertain year. Dubas insisted — take the security, protect your family.

“Don’t worry about me,” he told his people. “I’ll be OK.”

Those close to Dubas insist they liked working for him. Dubas put them first and had clearly grown into his leadership role.
 

ShaneFalco

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Jul 15, 2012
21,414
15,770
London, On

Confusion and hurt ripples through Maple Leafs in wake of Kyle Dubas’ dismissal

GettyImages-1255072142-1024x719.jpg


Anger. Confusion. Shock. Disappointment.

Those are some of the feelings reverberating around the Maple Leafs right now in the aftermath of Kyle Dubas’ firing as general manager last week.

The Athletic reached out to several people who work for the Leafs this week. Anonymity was granted to them as they were not permitted by the team to speak to the media.


This story reflects their feelings at the moment and speaks to a level of disillusionment that team president Brendan Shanahan and the next GM of the Leafs will have to work to unwind.

“I’m in mourning right now,” one person who worked in the front office with Dubas during his time with the Leafs said.

There’s a real sense of loss for staff members. Dubas was their leader and the one who hired many of them. Suddenly, he was gone a week after the season came to an end – and without, in their minds, a satisfactory explanation as to why.

“It doesn’t make any sense,” a Leafs front office member said of the way Dubas was let go. “That’s why it’s disappointing.”

Shanahan went from wanting to bring Dubas back to firing him in a matter of days. And then offered his version of events in a press conference that left people inside the organization confused and upset.


........................

It’s security they have because of Dubas.

Though he wasn’t offered an extension himself, not until after the trade deadline, Dubas fought to extend staff members who entered last season with expiring contracts. He got them extended with one, two, and three-year deals.

At least one staff member was inclined to ride things out with Dubas for an uncertain year. Dubas insisted — take the security, protect your family.

“Don’t worry about me,” he told his people. “I’ll be OK.”

Those close to Dubas insist they liked working for him. Dubas put them first and had clearly grown into his leadership role.
Will they stop fellating him through the media soon?
 
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