Sportsnet: Shanahan: Leafs’ off-season work still going on

[bigdirty]

The players going out have far more NHL experience and NHL production then the players coming in, but its perceived we have increased our depth by bringing in cheaper less experienced players.

Dave Bolland has more NHL playoff games experience and production then all the replacements combined for example.

I wonder what that belief is based on?

Lots of transactions that can change team dynamics through the changes made in player personnel, management Dubas and assistant coaches.

Take a closer look at the more experienced, more productive players we moved out.

Gunnarsson - Good player, injury took it's toll. Polak is at least an equal to Gunnarsson.
Ranger - Played terrible, we're not really losing anything worthwhile.
Gleason - Overpaid and slow as hell.
McClement - Definitely not as good last year as he had been.
Raymond - Wouldn't have minded if we kept him. But there's a reason why butter-soft players often become journeymen.
Bolland - 5.5 million for 5 half-seasons?
Orr - Not really a hockey player.
McLaren - Only marginally better than Orr.
Kulemin - Good player, though not irreplaceable.
D'amigo - Decent prospect, plenty more where that came from.

The belief that we've improved our depth is based on the fact that we cut a bunch of deadweight, and didn't lose anyone who isn't easily replaced.

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

Take a closer look at the more experienced, more productive players we moved out.

Gunnarsson - Good player, injury took it's toll. Polak is at least an equal to Gunnarsson.
Ranger - Played terrible, we're not really losing anything worthwhile.
Gleason - Overpaid and slow as hell.
McClement - Definitely not as good last year as he had been.
Raymond - Wouldn't have minded if we kept him. But there's a reason why butter-soft players often become journeymen.
Bolland - 5.5 million for 5 half-seasons?
Orr - Not really a hockey player.
McLaren - Only marginally better than Orr.
Kulemin - Good player, though not irreplaceable.
D'amigo - Decent prospect, plenty more where that came from.

The belief that we've improved our depth is based on the fact that we cut a bunch of deadweight, and didn't lose anyone who isn't easily replaced.

Yep. Bolland played so few healthy games last year that he may as well have not even been here; Winnik is a fine replacement for Kulemin at a much cheaper price, and Santorelli/Komarov/Booth/Kontiola should be able to more than replace what Raymond/McClement/McLaren/Orr/Bodie/etc. brought in terms of offensive production.

 

[Stephen]

In reality, this upcoming Leafs season is Shanahan's version of the Ujiri season with the Raptors. If things don't go well, expect the current core to be dismantled.

 

[Daisy Jane]

In reality, this upcoming Leafs season is Shanahan's version of the Ujiri season with the Raptors. If things don't go well, expect the current core to be dismantled.

and i have a feeling shanahan won't be satisfied with a good job either.

 

[highslot]

This is a really good article, Cammalleri talking about Shanahan.

Cammalleri thinks Shanahan will turn around Maple Leafs

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/18/cammalleri-thinks-shanahan-will-turn-around-maple-leafs

lol at calling leaf fans paranoid that players don't want to play here. i wonder who's creating the paranoia to sell papers?

 

[highslot]

Take a closer look at the more experienced, more productive players we moved out.

Gunnarsson - Good player, injury took it's toll. Polak is at least an equal to Gunnarsson.
Ranger - Played terrible, we're not really losing anything worthwhile.
Gleason - Overpaid and slow as hell.
McClement - Definitely not as good last year as he had been.
Raymond - Wouldn't have minded if we kept him. But there's a reason why butter-soft players often become journeymen.
Bolland - 5.5 million for 5 half-seasons?
Orr - Not really a hockey player.
McLaren - Only marginally better than Orr.
Kulemin - Good player, though not irreplaceable.
D'amigo - Decent prospect, plenty more where that came from.

The belief that we've improved our depth is based on the fact that we cut a bunch of deadweight, and didn't lose anyone who isn't easily replaced.

didn't like losing kulemin, who is versatile and never complains; the fastest skater, among the hardest shot and defensively responsible.

d'amigo might have had potential to be a second liner, but he was at least a very fast 3rd liner who heads into boards, heads to the net and owns a fearless scoring touch. besides, jvr, and sometimes lupul, i can't think of anyone last season who fits all 4 traits except bolland pre injury. that's great company.

 

[JimmyPower]

didn't like losing kulemin, who is versatile and never complains; the fastest skater, among the hardest shot and defensively responsible.

d'amigo might have had potential to be a second liner, but he was at least a very fast 3rd liner who heads into boards, heads to the net and owns a fearless scoring touch. besides, jvr, and sometimes lupul, i can't think of anyone last season who fits all 4 traits except bolland pre injury. that's great company.

What good is the hardest shot when you score 10 goals a year lol

 

[Stephen]

didn't like losing kulemin, who is versatile and never complains; the fastest skater, among the hardest shot and defensively responsible.

d'amigo might have had potential to be a second liner, but he was at least a very fast 3rd liner who heads into boards, heads to the net and owns a fearless scoring touch. besides, jvr, and sometimes lupul, i can't think of anyone last season who fits all 4 traits except bolland pre injury. that's great company.

I bet if you dropped Kulemin onto the LA Kings, you would barely notice him on the 3rd or 4th line.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What good is the hardest shot when you score 10 goals a year lol

You generate more rebounds

 

[Kyle Doobas*]

I bet if you dropped Kulemin onto the LA Kings, you would barely notice him on the 3rd or 4th line.

Agreed. I liked Kulemin, but he didn't really bring anything that Dan Winnik won't at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Picku Materinu]

No one has mentioned this, but is there not a real possibility that all of the offseason moves are primarily to placate the fans (and media)?

I doubt Dubas will be calling the shots w/o any experience in the NHL ...

 

[Stephen]

No one has mentioned this, but is there not a real possibility that all of the offseason moves are primarily to placate the fans (and media)?

I doubt Dubas will be calling the shots w/o any experience in the NHL ...

No, I don't think so. The Leafs basically went for the low hanging fruit and made low tweaks and added to the braintrust. It's a wait and see year allowing management some time to evaluate without diving in and making Stempniak for Steen/Colaiacovo and McCabe for Van Ryn type panic moves.

 

[darrylsittler27]

And your point is realism is bad right?

Who said the rebuild was over? Who said this team will win a cup?

You're just making stuff up.

And personally, I would like it if the Leafs won a playoff round in 2015. If you wouldn't, then I suggest you call up Mess and arrange a hangout.

I dont see this team as better than last year,we lost some good players. He has changed some chemistry perhaps but I still maintain this is a blow up team.Robidas for instance is 37,Winnik is what 32? He said big changes are coming, he didn't say when.If we arent in the playoffs come deadline I dont see any option but to trade some of our older players and get ready to draft well in a strong draft year.Im not making up the fact that teams like Buffalo,Florida and Ottawa have drafted well and will bear the fruits for years.We still have some gaps which can be filled next draft. Buffalo has 3 firsts and the best prospect pool in the NHL. It is our lack of long term thinking that has cost us. You want to win one round and then watch other teams below us excell for years? I call that a loser mentality. I dont see the point of winning one round and then watch our players get older and slower.Our core is at or over their prime.

 

[Ace88*]

No one has mentioned this, but is there not a real possibility that all of the offseason moves are primarily to placate the fans (and media)?

I doubt Dubas will be calling the shots w/o any experience in the NHL ...

your username

 

[paulster2626]

I dont see this team as better than last year,we lost some good players. He has changed some chemistry perhaps but I still maintain this is a blow up team.Robidas for instance is 37,Winnik is what 32? He said big changes are coming, he didn't say when.If we arent in the playoffs come deadline I dont see any option but to trade some of our older players and get ready to draft well in a strong draft year.Im not making up the fact that teams like Buffalo,Florida and Ottawa have drafted well and will bear the fruits for years.We still have some gaps which can be filled next draft. Buffalo has 3 firsts and the best prospect pool in the NHL. It is our lack of long term thinking that has cost us. You want to win one round and then watch other teams below us excell for years? I call that a loser mentality. I dont see the point of winning one round and then watch our players get older and slower.Our core is at or over their prime.

Yes, lets be like Buffalo.

Winning one round would be the first logical step to winning more rounds. Tanking is simply moving in the wrong direction, and becomes even less of an actual thing to hope for as the new draft lottery rules get implemented.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, lets be like Buffalo.

Winning one round would be the first logical step to winning more rounds. Tanking is simply moving in the wrong direction, and becomes even less of an actual thing to hope for as the new draft lottery rules get implemented.

We'll we almost won a round not too long ago, you'd think that would be a logical step toward something other than flaming out the next year? How did that work out for us?

I'm pretty sure you're being sarcastic but yeah, I'd love to be like Buffalo right now.

 

[masarume]

Yes, lets be like Buffalo.

Winning one round would be the first logical step to winning more rounds. Tanking is simply moving in the wrong direction, and becomes even less of an actual thing to hope for as the new draft lottery rules get implemented.

Tell that to the Sharks.

My dream as a Leafs fan is to win the cup.
I don't think this is a cup-calibre team yet.
I think we still need a strong #1C. I don't see how getting into the 2nd round will help us get closer to the cup.

 

[darrylsittler27]

It is too late.

To be like Buffalo, and I never said tank.I said if this team is out of the playoffs at the deadline then we need to trade some older players for picks to fill some gaps we have in order to compete with teams like Buffalo and Florida who have already tanked and reloaded. How many times has this team tried old players only to find in shock they are past it? The only thing we haven't tried is holding onto picks or loading up in a strong draft. I dont want to name names but some of our players are in decline now but could fetch prospects and picks at the deadline.

If it is evident this team isn't good enough at deadline why fake it and hope to win/lose one round? We have tried shortcuts, they dont work. By all means go for the playoffs but also try and get top value for players like Buffalo did(Vanek) while you can...no?

Buffalo out manuevered us already while we did nothing anyway.As a result they will have a stronger team(more assets and cheap players) than us for the next 10 years plus.This draft is most likely the best shot we have to fill our gaps.Once a team evolves into contender they draft too late to take quantum leaps(Crosby,Kane,Toews,Mcdavid) and start having the likes of Gauthier's to pick from.

 

[Stephen]

You have to be in a fairly unique situation to do a complete Buffalo or Florida. We were in that window in 2010 but we blew it. I think at this point we just have to keep accumulating talent, shedding salary and see if we can make a Chara-like signing like Boston did to propel us into contender status.

 

[paulster2626]

To be like Buffalo, and I never said tank.I said if this team is out of the playoffs at the deadline then we need to trade some older players for picks to fill some gaps we have in order to compete with teams like Buffalo and Florida who have already tanked and reloaded. How many times has this team tried old players only to find in shock they are past it? The only thing we haven't tried is holding onto picks or loading up in a strong draft. I dont want to name names but some of our players are in decline now but could fetch prospects and picks at the deadline.

If it is evident this team isn't good enough at deadline why fake it and hope to win/lose one round? We have tried shortcuts, they dont work. By all means go for the playoffs but also try and get top value for players like Buffalo did(Vanek) while you can...no?

Buffalo out manuevered us already while we did nothing anyway.As a result they will have a stronger team(more assets and cheap players) than us for the next 10 years plus.This draft is most likely the best shot we have to fill our gaps.Once a team evolves into contender they draft too late to take quantum leaps(Crosby,Kane,Toews,Mcdavid) and start having the likes of Gauthier's to pick from.

Well, sure. if you think drafting is the only way to build a winning hockey team then we're screwed.

I, however, believe there is more than one way to accomplish the ultimate goal. The first step is to be good enough to make it to the second round of the playoffs.

You don't honestly think that the trade deadline return on mediocre players is that high, do you? Or do you believe the best way to get better is to unload all your star players for first round picks and premium prospects who haven't played any NHL games yet?

Tell that to the Sharks.

My dream as a Leafs fan is to win the cup.
I don't think this is a cup-calibre team yet.
I think we still need a strong #1C. I don't see how getting into the 2nd round will help us get closer to the cup.

Oh, and I would trade our current roster for San Jose's any day. You'd be crazy not to. They are a much closer team to winning a cup than Toronto, and especially your new model-of-success Buffalo.

 

[VaughanBender72]

I think the leafs just focus on making it to the first or second round, but don't focus on winning a cup.

 

[masarume]

Oh, and I would trade our current roster for San Jose's any day. You'd be crazy not to. They are a much closer team to winning a cup than Toronto, and especially your new model-of-success Buffalo.

Are you done picking on Buffalo? They finished year one of their tank. I've never met a one year tank that has yielded immediate results. If those existed, even you yourself would be a believer.

I've yet to seen a team successfully contend and win a cup without drafting and converting those picks into valuable core assets. This especially in the post-Salary Cap era. This also really makes me question your logic.

I feel like you are satisfied meddling in mediocrity. I don't mind the losing if it yields something in the long run. Over the last decade, we've been losing with little to show for it. I don't see the point of winning Round 1 if we get blown out in Round 2. We need a blueprint that makes us contenders till the end. Not just a flash in the pan visit to round 2.

 

[Faltorvo]

You have to be in a fairly unique situation to do a complete Buffalo or Florida. We were in that window in 2010 but we blew it. I think at this point we just have to keep accumulating talent, shedding salary and see if we can make a Chara-like signing like Boston did to propel us into contender status.

don't hold your breath on that brother.

not many "chara" level players due to hot UFA over the next 3 seasons.

there might be 8 names as of now , something tells me that at best 1 of them makes it ufa in the next 3 years.

 

[Faltorvo]

We will end up trading away some of what we call "the core" and blow out any pending UFAs at the trade deadline.

They WILL finally start to stockpile draft slots and put most of their long term team improvement focus on utilising the draft better then we have in the past.

When this cap maxed team shows shanny it's true colors again, he will act decisively and harshly.

 

[achtungbaby]

We will end up trading away some of what we call "the core" and blow out any pending UFAs at the trade deadline.

They WILL finally start to stockpile draft slots and put most of their long term team improvement focus on utilising the draft better then we have in the past.

When this cap maxed team shows shanny it's true colors again, he will act decisively and harshly.

If this seasons team plays as badly as some past teams, we can only hope we try something different for once. This shakeup of the big wigs this summer gives me some degree of hope that change is coming.