Post-Game Talk: Shameful Leafs lose 3-2

[therealkoho]

There is a common denominator and I wonder what that is... oh yeah, the way the Leafs play.

I've heard many people say that it's all on Holl, but everyone knows it's 91s contract or the cyclical nature of 88s high level of compete. In fact it's either this or that with no in between. In fact even his number looks kind of like the yin-yang.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Never won a series in my history. Tampa series was the first and I highly doubt it ever happened.

Leafs were down 0-3 to Detroit in the final and won. Only time ever by any team. 1942.

 

[sunstersun]

I've heard many people say that it's all on Holl, but everyone knows it's 91s contract or the cyclical nature of 88s high level of compete. In fact it's either this or that with no in between. In fact even his number looks kind of like the yin-yang.

Don't forget 16, 3 points in 11 games.

 

[notDatsyuk]

If the puck was an inch or 2 inside the post the puck more than likely hits the goalie so this whole idea that the post saved them is weird to me.

Spoken like a goalie. We will always tell you that the posts are part of our equipment, and are only hit because of our perfect positioning.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Disagree. IMO they don't have an answer to Florida's hitting and pushing everything to the outside. The only way the Leafs win is if they drive the net. Something they are allergic to doing.

The only one actually driving the net, adn their best player both games, isn't getting top ice time. He's actually fifth, just among forwards, in ice time, and has half the PP time of the #4.

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

Leafs were down 0-3 to Detroit in the final and won. Only time ever by any team. 1942.

Another few years and it would've been 100 years since then lol.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Another few years and it would've been 100 years since then lol.

But still the only team to ever do it.

 

[Squiffy]

Leafs were down 0-3 to Detroit in the final and won. Only time ever by any team. 1942.

Only time in finals, has happened a couple of times. Philly and LA relatively recently.

 

[hfman]

Depends on whether the players want to win or not.

Lots of guys play hard to win because they dream about winning a cup.

Other players don't want the cup that bad. So they say screw this, I'm not putting out all my energy and my body on the line for a trophy I don't need that bad.

Look at the top 4 in Toronto.

Of the big 4 guys, what side of the coin do they fall on?

The side that says they play their hearts out, sacrifice their bodies and put up with the physical and mental pain and push themselves to the limit in 4 consecutive rounds to win a cup?

Or the other side, which says that a cup isn't THAT important to them, so why should they sacrifice their body and health and over-exert themselves for a prize that isn't all that important to them?

Sure the cup is the ultimate goal but not to every player in the league. That's just an honest and rational take on it. Not every player needs a cup. Especially considering the (unreasonable?) effort and risks involved

Looking at the 4 top guys... I see at least 3 of them who fall on the latter side of the coin. They can win the cup... or not. Not that important to them.

Just the way it is. They aren't the only ones. Hell most players aren't interested in the sacrifices required to win it all - it just isn't worth it to them so they end up losing the series instead of battling on.

Why kill themselves for a trophy that doesn't mean that much to them on personal levels when they can hit the cottage early?

Sure it's supposed to be that these are professional athletes and they play to win it all but this is real life and it's not that way. They aren't all there to win. It's rare to compose a team of 20 guys who ALL want it.

Toronto doesn't have 20 guys who all want it. I'm having a hard time picking out even 5 guys on this team who look like they really NEED to win the cup.

 

[seventieslord]

Who mostly pooped the bed in the playoffs.

Let's just recap here. You said that none of these goalies the Leafs have used in recent years have gone on to have any success anywhere else. That's why I pointed out that Freddie Andersen has been a vezina finalist since leaving the leafs.

When you say he mostly pooped the bed in the playoffs you are referring to his time in Toronto. But you weren't originally talking about his time in toronto, you were trying to say he did nothing after leaving the leafs which is not true.

 

[hockeyes]

Depends on whether the players want to win or not.

Lots of guys play hard to win because they dream about winning a cup.

Other players don't want the cup that bad. So they say screw this, I'm not putting out all my energy and my body on the line for a trophy I don't need that bad.

Look at the top 4 in Toronto.

Of the big 4 guys, what side of the coin do they fall on?

The side that says they play their hearts out, sacrifice their bodies and put up with the physical and mental pain and push themselves to the limit in 4 consecutive rounds to win a cup?

Or the other side, which says that a cup isn't THAT important to them, so why should they sacrifice their body and health and over-exert themselves for a prize that isn't all that important to them?

Sure the cup is the ultimate goal but not to every player in the league. That's just an honest and rational take on it. Not every player needs a cup. Especially considering the (unreasonable?) effort and risks involved

Looking at the 4 top guys... I see at least 3 of them who fall on the latter side of the coin. They can win the cup... or not. Not that important to them.

Just the way it is. They aren't the only ones. Hell most players aren't interested in the sacrifices required to win it all - it just isn't worth it to them so they end up losing the series instead of battling on.

Why kill themselves for a trophy that doesn't mean that much to them on personal levels when they can hit the cottage early?

Sure it's supposed to be that these are professional athletes and they play to win it all but this is real life and it's not that way. They aren't all there to win. It's rare to compose a team of 20 guys who ALL want it.

Toronto doesn't have 20 guys who all want it. I'm having a hard time picking out even 5 guys on this team who look like they really NEED to win the cup.

Hockey becomes more of a business first, sport second every year. The earlier high end prospects are identified and groomed for the NHL the more likely they are to care very little about actually winning.

You cant blame them either because all of us would take the bags of cash and consider if we even care about winning second if that was our expected trajectory.

You are never going to get raw passion in a sport played by multimillionairs who grew up well off enough to afford hockey and all the camps. You will get a few guys that slip through and fight the system, but they are the exception in the league and are mostly happy to shut up and take their money when offered.

 

[leafs in five]

I have not seen much of any screens this series.

hard to set up screens on point blank slot opportunities

 

[leafs in five]

JT's multiple chances in alone with no defenders close to him looked great on paper but unfortunately that just isn't how you score goals in the playoffs

 

[Dreakmur]

Leafs were down 0-3 to Detroit in the final and won. Only time ever by any team. 1942.

The Leafs coach put their lazy one-way leading scorer in the press box to facilitate that comeback, right?

 

[TorMapleJays]

Biggest thing I noticed was the lack of speed when moving the puck in the O zone. Schenn kept getting off quick low shots that seem to get through but no traffic in front of the net, meanwhile our skilled guys are trying to hit that backdoor pass and then panic and end up shooting into shin pads.... it has to change.

 

[ACC1224]

That is random.

I know it’s all over hockey, but when did fans start wearing a jersey to the game, and why?

No idea.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I sat back and tried to figure out what's really causing the issues here. (Bob aside)

We're having a difficult time get the puck up the ice from the back... so odd considering we've cried for net clearers/beef for a long time.

Brodie, Giordano and Liljgren have been an issue in this regard.

(Schenn/McCabe are what they are)

 

[Dekes For Days]

The Leafs have given up 28 goals against in just 8 playoff games [ave 3.5 GA/g].

Florida has given up more goals in these playoffs, for the record.

"Defense wins Championships"

Florida is the worst defensive team in the playoffs, by far.

The emphasis should be on the make fewer mistakes, and give up less quality scoring chances

Teams always try to do that, but the Leafs are actually doing really well with that. The Leafs are holding Florida to less scoring chances and high danger chances than they got in both the regular season and against Boston.

can't blame Sammy for the Barkov goal if Nylander simply makes a safer and smarter play, because then the shot never even happens.

By that logic, you can never blame a goalie ever. Every goal is a shot that was allowed first. A goalie's job is to make saves on those shots, even on amazing shots and chances, at a certain rate. Samsonov is not doing that. Bobrovsky is doing that, and more.

Goalie Bob didn't beat the Leafs himself through strong goaltending all alone

Yeah, he did. Toronto skaters were better than Florida both games. The difference in this series has been all goaltending.

 

[Gallagbi]

JT's multiple chances in alone with no defenders close to him looked great on paper but unfortunately that just isn't how you score goals in the playoffs

Florida won game 1 on a breakaway and didnt score screen or tip goal in game 2. Most of the goals in the Canes game last night were similar to what you described.

Most teams arent allowing the type of chances we got in game 2.

We need to finish them, not avoid them, especially when they arent preventing traffic or tip opportunities.

 

[IPS]

People are acting like Florida has dominated us in this series so far and I truly don't get it. They're really lucky to be up 2-0 on us. I'm predicting the Leafs take the next 2 in Sunrise.

 

[Cournoyer12]

Spoken like a goalie. We will always tell you that the posts are part of our equipment we, and are only hit because of our perfect positioning.

As an old goalie… I concour

 

[notDatsyuk]

The Leafs coach put their lazy one-way leading scorer in the press box to facilitate that comeback, right?

The current player with the closest style to Drillon would be Tavares.

Only time in finals, has happened a couple of times. Philly and LA relatively recently.

True - my post was ambiguous.

 

[ULF_55]

If the puck was an inch or 2 inside the post the puck more than likely hits the goalie so this whole idea that the post saved them is weird to me.

To me it is just bad shooting.

No goalie is 4'x6'.

 

[ULF_55]

Here's my birds eye take for row 1 blues .. Leafs came out harder/faster to start game and unfortunately could not maintain either da pace and/or physical side .. Cats can maintain speed and toughness and they did for 2 periods until they went into trap mode in 3rd period .. JT and Kampf continue to get badly tilted when they are on da ice .. Matty and ROR played even steven .. Bobbo played his best game which did not help our cause .. but that was not why we lost da game

Defensively 3 huge defensive turnovers which were all self inflicted were da cause for da L .. Lily trained in Sweden/Leafs development clearly does not know how to eat a puck, then JT could not support his error due to footspeed and mobility issues and Gio assumed Lily was gonna move puck up boards (lack of communication very evident there) .. overall Cats speed on forecheck reduces time and space and caused da breakdown .. this is a theme now for past 2 games

Goal 2 against was a ghastly error by both Willy and then Sammy .. 1st no excuses Willy is fastest guy on ice and this was a straightforward easy exit which Willy played at regular season pace (give him credit he picked up his pace after that goal against but..) .. he fumbled puck to Cats and then after his fumble he did not attack Barkov to make his shot attempt harder and Barkov used his quick release and screen to beat Sammy in a goal which could have been saved but it was nowhere near as bad as Freddy's or Soup's f*ck ups .. but it was a save that $$$ tenders need to make

Goal 3 was all on Mitch and Matty as they both decided to play shinny hockey in a playoff game .. goes to both of their characters and bottom line neither are leaders of men and both are still boys .. given both of their self entitled hockey lives I don't see either being a guy you can trust in playoffs .. da truth hurts fans but it must be stated

All that said offensively both ROR and Kerfoot found ways to beat bobbo with their 2 only chances at net .. Matty had 2 glorious chances, JT had 2 even better chances and Willy had 3 which were super good too .. our core 4 had 7 i said 7 let me repeat 7 chances to score .. 7 legit kill zone chances to score .. i think you need to hear that again folks da core 4 had 7 legit chances to score .. BUT ZERO NOTHING NOTTA 1 goal .. what does that tell you??????? .. think long and hard about that one .. of course there will be folks on here which say Bobbo stole it .. my reply yes he did play extremely well .. but this is a recurring playoff theme for 6 years now .. legit top end scorers don't miss 7 times like that .. those boys are not clutch at all .. and they never will be .. great regular season scorers yes but when pace picks up in playoffs and time and space is reduced on puck none of them excel .. facts are facts .. you can't have 4 guys ALL FORWARDS who don't score when required on your team .. too much tied up in them

All that said I don't see Leafs winning this series but Bobbo will not play at this level 4 straight .. Keefer can make some more changes to lineup and team can play better .. but character of core 4 is reason we won't win this series .. blaming Sammy is flat out wrong .. he flat out beat Vasi in round 1 and that tells me he is fine ..

I remember watching the '67 Cup, on television not live, and have watched since Don Messers jubilee was on and we'd join the game in process. I was too young to watch full games in '62, '63 and I don't remember '64.

This is the only iteration of the Leafs I haven't watched live in the playoffs.

Perhaps these guys just don't have that extra gear?

 

[Hellcat]

Why do the Leafs get “goalied“ so often in the playoffs?

A goalies performance is never as good as just him, its the team in front of him that keeps rebounds from becoming goals. Coaching has a lot to do with this which is why when certain coaches come to a new team the goalie instantly see's his stats become significantly better.

The problem with the Leafs is our top players are greyhounds, they are born to run, they are not working dogs. What wins in the playoffs is hard work, puck management, clock management and shot management. Maurice knows Marner, Matthews, Nylander, Bunting, Kerfoot so on and so on want to run, they want to play a run and gun game, so he lets them think that is what they are playing, convincing them to not puck manage, not clock manage not shot manage. how many times have we actually seen a juicy rebound from Bob? Isn't there always a Panther there to tie up our sticks or take the body or stop rebound shots?

For the Leafs to not get out goalied, they have to play a boring, slow, patient and purposeful game, which is not who they are as individuals like to do. you don't control the game by exchanging chances, it makes you feel good and gets you excited to do so, but that is not Playoff winning hockey and Maurice knows this and it is how you beat the Leafs, he has to exchange chances to get the puck back and control the second and third shot opportunities. Run and gun just means, you allow the other guys opportunities to score when its their turn. This is not controlling the game.

Keefe thinks he's playing checkers while Maurice is playing chess.