Euro: SF: England v Denmark, 7/7/2021 (Part 2)

[Chimaera]

I would say a good portion of English supporters still expect them to louse it up. Seeing Italy at the end just reinforces that.

 

[Dr Pepper]

two seconds before the penalty awarded lol.

I mean how does the ref see this and not immediately stop play?

 

[britdevil]

I mean how does the ref see this and not immediately stop play?

FIFA's laws of the game state that if 'an extra ball, other object or animal enters the field of play during the match, the referee must: stop play (and restart with a dropped ball) only if it interferes with play.'

 

[Dr Pepper]

FIFA's laws of the game state that if 'an extra ball, other object or animal enters the field of play during the match, the referee must: stop play (and restart with a dropped ball) only if it interferes with play.'

They're what, six feet apart? If this was a second ball on the other side of the pitch, by the corner flag, of course you'd just play on, but two balls on the pitch in that close proximity, you've gotta blow the play dead. I'd assume the same rule would be in effect in the NHL, if suddenly there was a second puck in the corner while a team was on a power play or something.

 

[hatterson]

Did any player on the pitch change what they did based on the second ball?

They all knew it wasn’t the live ball and ignored it, thus it didn’t affect play and the referee isn’t required to stop play.

As a referee, when a player is driving towards the box, you only want to stop play when it’s absolutely necessary. If instead the ball was there after a Danish defender made a clearance towards the corner flag and an English player was gently jogging towards it to recycle play, he likely would have stopped it and restarted with an England drop ball.

 

[britdevil]

For the optically challenged. Two clear albeit light contacts. Maehle's knee on Sterling's knee then Jensen's hip. That's why it wasn't overturned.

Clearest view I have seen of it yet. Yes the contact was light, but there's enough there for VAR to not over turn the decision.

It's horrible for Denmark, you don't want to go out like that. We've been on the receiving end of some terrible decisions too. It hurts and the pain won't go away any time soon.

They can take solace from the fact that their players left it all on the pitch. Great performance from them.

 

[britdevil]

They're what, six feet apart? If this was a second ball on the other side of the pitch, by the corner flag, of course you'd just play on, but two balls on the pitch in that close proximity, you've gotta blow the play dead. I'd assume the same rule would be in effect in the NHL, if suddenly there was a second puck in the corner while a team was on a power play or something.

I'm not justifying it. It sucks, but there you go.

 

[hatterson]

Clearest view I have seen of it yet. Yes the contact was light, but there's enough there for VAR to not over turn the decision.

It's horrible for Denmark, you don't want to go out like that. We've been on the receiving end of some terrible decisions too. It hurts and the pain won't go away any time soon.

They can take solace from the fact that their players left it all on the pitch. Great performance from them.

In general this has been the issue with VAR in this tournament. The bar to have the ref look again is way too high.

Yes there was the slightest amount of contact, but everyone except the biggest of homers knows it wasn’t enough to go to ground and Sterling dove.

It would take maybe 60 seconds for the official to jog over to the monitor and just take a quick second look at it. He doesn’t need to spend a bunch of time with 12 slo-mo angles, just a couple quick views at full speed.

Instead the bar is crazy high and fouls will almost never get overturned.

 

[member 305909]

I haven't checked the news but I dont think that last night in Denmark there have been disappointed people smashing up places or otherwise destroying property, which would have undoubtedly happened in England if England had lost the match.

Therefore we can conclude that people in Denmark are saner. For them some ball game-result isn't the most important thing in the world.

However, for the sake of the competition it was good that England won. Now there could be a proper final. Italy-Denmark would have been another France-Croatia.

 

[bluesfan94]

It wouldn't have been a home game. I don't think the neutrals in Dublin would have been eager to support England. In any event, this obsession with travel reminds me of such complaints about the NHL playoffs and how Western teams had to travel so much vs the Eastern teams. And well you know, the complaint never really stuck. Even if there might be some legitimacy to the complaint, it always just came off as sour grapes.

Tampa was the first team to never have to leave its time zone. And yes, it wouldn’t have been a home game, but it also wouldn’t have been a trip to Azerbaijan

 

[bluesfan94]

For the optically challenged. Two clear albeit light contacts. Maehle's knee on Sterling's knee then Jensen's hip. That's why it wasn't overturned.

Which is absurd. That knee brush is never a foul and sterling is going down by the time Jensen touches him.

the more you watch the less it’s a penalty.

 

[bluesfan94]

Did any player on the pitch change what they did based on the second ball?

They all knew it wasn’t the live ball and ignored it, thus it didn’t affect play and the referee isn’t required to stop play.

As a referee, when a player is driving towards the box, you only want to stop play when it’s absolutely necessary. If instead the ball was there after a Danish defender made a clearance towards the corner flag and an English player was gently jogging towards it to recycle play, he likely would have stopped it and restarted with an England drop ball.

Which is exactly why the smart thing for Denmark to do in that situation is pretend that the ball changed things. If Maehle hesitated and goes after the second ball, the play is blown dead

 

[Evilo]

For the optically challenged. Two clear albeit light contacts. Maehle's knee on Sterling's knee then Jensen's hip. That's why it wasn't overturned.

Both happenning after he dove.
Optically challenged you said?

 

[Icarium]

It would take maybe 60 seconds for the official to jog over to the monitor and just take a quick second look at it. He doesn’t need to spend a bunch of time with 12 slo-mo angles, just a couple quick views at full speed.

Instead the bar is crazy high and fouls will almost never get overturned.

It's a dumb system. VAR should have a priority over the on field ref's decision because they have the benefit of all those replays. Having it overrule only super clear cases in order to not hurt the feelings of the main ref is absolutely bizarre. It's still far better than no VAR because there are many clear cut cases where the ref screws up, but it could be even better. Linesmen seem to handle being overruled by VAR quite easily, why can't main refs do the same?

 

[robertmac43]

Yeah the more i watch the more it leaves a spur taste in my mouth that is for sure.

 

[1865]

In general this has been the issue with VAR in this tournament. The bar to have the ref look again is way too high.

Yes there was the slightest amount of contact, but everyone except the biggest of homers knows it wasn’t enough to go to ground and Sterling dove.

It would take maybe 60 seconds for the official to jog over to the monitor and just take a quick second look at it. He doesn’t need to spend a bunch of time with 12 slo-mo angles, just a couple quick views at full speed.

Instead the bar is crazy high and fouls will almost never get overturned.

My problem with VAR is that it was painted as a way to stop mistakes and it’ll never be possible. Offside and line decisions are black and white and has been pretty much fixed, but fouls aren’t. There is normally a huge grey area with fouls, and players have moved in the main from diving to learning how to be fouled. Bending the rules has evolved in line with the technology.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

2800 km and 9000km + England played almost all Games at home. This is a big different!

That's my point, it really isn't. You're talking about a 3hr difference in flight time. These guys aren't flying middle seat with Spirit Airlines. It's for me not a relevant issue and people always overstate the effect of travel in every sport.

If you want to complain about England playing almost all games at home, have at it, but that's a separate issue.

 

[cgf]

My problem with VAR is that it was painted as a way to stop mistakes and it’ll never be possible. Offside and line decisions are black and white and has been pretty much fixed, but fouls aren’t. There is normally a huge grey area with fouls, and players have moved in the main from diving to learning how to be fouled. Bending the rules has evolved in line with the technology.

It'll never stop all mistakes but it has certainly cut down on the number of mistakes and the more the black-n-white / clearcut / objective stuff can be delegated to technology, the better refs should do with the more subjective / shades-of-grey stuff.

We're obviously still in a transitional state as more & more technology is getting integrated, but on the whole, I feel like we've definitely moved in a better direction with it and there's still a lot of room for further improvement that it is reasonable to expect to happen.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

1990 while maybe a make-up call there was real obstruction at least, here Sterling just took a dive. If there was marginal contact it was not what made him fall. Still giving that after VAR was inexcusable.

To refresh your memory:

It's no more a penalty than last night. Whenever they've asked the German players about this in interviews, they smirk and try to evade..because everyone knows it was a dive. But no-one in Germany gave a damn then, no-one gives a damn now. I watched it live, and there was the widespread perception that Argentina were trying to cheat their way to the World Cup (their SF win over Italy was already seen as an injustice), so beating them by any means was absolutely fair play.

In reality, Sterling did what I've seen players of every nationality do in those situations. Even in this tournament. Also hardly surprising that the English would accept the gift and try to ignore the fact it was a dive (again behavior you can see from fans of all teams, there's always an excuse/rationalization for your own dives, never for the other team). Also hardly shocking the English would be triumphant and overjoyed after reaching their 1st final in 50+ years. It's almost as predictable as the fact that all the folks who don't like the English are now 'so bitter they must eat so many lemons" to paraphrase an English pop song from about 10 years ago.

 

[Albatros]

I don't know what you are watching but there's very evident obstruction. Doesn't mean it's a penalty (especially by 1990 standards) but to suggest it was just a dive is ridiculous. Völler made the most of his fall but that's all there's to it.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yeah the more i watch the more it leaves a spur taste in my mouth that is for sure.

Brilliant typo.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

I don't know what you are watching but there's very evident obstruction. Doesn't mean it's a penalty (especially by 1990 standards) but to suggest it was just a dive is ridiculous. Völler made the most of his fall but that's all there's to it.

Völler takes off without contact, Völler drags his leg to initiate contact. Völler wasn't born yesterday. I like Rudi Völler, that game was probably my happiest childhood football memory, but 30 years later I don't need to front about it. It's part of the game.

 

[Albatros]

The video I can see has Sensini making a speculative challenge stretching his leg on the path of Völler, catching the man more than the ball. Völler then settles for making the most of it and a penalty is given. There was no way for Völler to avoid contact with Sensini already leaning on him so I don't know what he could have done differently other than keep his fall less dramatic. To me it was a corner rather than a penalty in 1990, but what happened was a careless play by Sensini if anything.

 

[kovacro]

This one is a beauty too.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Sensini made it easy, yes, it was stupid by him. Rudi just did the pro thing ,took the gift and fell with it. But I know that if we had conceded on that penalty in that Final, we wouldn't have shut up about cheating Argentinians for years to come.

I think my point is that in this whole debate you can take an individual high ground, but never a collective high ground. There's nothing special about England being hypocrites regarding diving because everyone is. It's by the way the exact same way when it comes to whether hits are dirty and should lead to a suspension in hockey. Your own guy can't do wrong, the other guy needs to get a lifetime ban. It's just sports.