Value of: Several Kings players

[King'sPawn]

I've said before in the Kings board:

Forbort would be best as a #6 defenseman. He has shown the inability to anchor his own pairing, and he doesn't have a particular skill to further pace the game or tilt the ice in his team's favor (whether it's a big hit, puck movement, etc). He's managed to play way above his head for many years, but he would thrive best in a minimal role.

I was hoping Toffoli would be traded at last offseason. He's a supplemental scorer, like Michael Ryder. He'll never drive the play. However, he's talented, so with a play driver he can contribute a lot, preferrably on the second line.

Carter's the biggest mystery to me. I'm willing to trade him to get younger, but he has been a consistent scoring threat who brought the best out of Toffoli and Pearson just a couple years ago. I still don't think he was fully recovered from his injury last year. I think he can still play on the second line if he recovers, otherwise his two-way ability makes him acceptable on the third line.

I'm never good at guessing value, so I won't bother. That's just my honest assessment of what you'd get if you trade for them.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I'm sorry if I offended you, this is why I sas asking. I know he plays 20 mins+ a game, that he's a former first round pick and on a decent contract for next year only at +/- 2.5M. But he doesnt put up points and is not a fast skater. I don't think Montréal would part ways with the assets that you are looking for Forbort, I prefer Kulak that we got for Valiev and Taormina in comparaison.

Again where did i ask for something specific ? Also you didn't exactly offend me. Your offer was trying to low-ball Forbort's value which is for sure higher then a couple of rfas who wouldn't make the kings.

 

[Gentle Man]

How is Alec Martinez these days and what would be the cost to get him?

 

[bernmeister]

The Kings are supposedly looking to get a little younger and probably look for a new direction. What picks or prospects/players under 23 would you offer for these guys. LA could retain if worthwhile.

Toffoli (RW) former 30 goal scorer many moons ago

Tyler Toffoli Stats and News

Forbort (LD) Plays big minutes with our golden boy, doesn't always look dreadful but would suit a lesser role better

Derek Forbort Stats and News

Carter (C) one of our aging snipers, Looked as flat as a pancake for a lot of the season, but has scoring pedigree

Jeff Carter Stats and News

Also perhaps Kovalchuck, Lewis and Martinez

rangers pass, except possibly for Martinez, but I think you get better offers.

 

[Carl182]

Again where did i ask for something specific ? Also you didn't exactly offend me. Your offer was trying to low-ball Forbort's value which is for sure higher then a couple of rfas who wouldn't make the kings.

I was trying to know his value, not trying to lowball, while giving my opinion on what I would not pay for Forbert from what I saw from him.

He is a number 5-6, who can play 20 min+ a night if needed, reliable in defence, but slow and unable to generate offence with a good and short contract.

You said you were not looking for Evans or prospects of similar value. I assumed you were looking for grade A/B prospects since, for me, Evans is a C prospect.

We got a younger Top6 in Kulak by giving a C prospect (Valiev) and an AHL legend at the end of his carreer (Taormina), so if the price is a lot higher, I must of understimated him, my mistake.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[kilowatt]

How is Alec Martinez these days and what would be the cost to get him?

Definitely available. Excellent second-pairing defenseman. Left handed, but regularly plays both sides. Probably for a second round pick and a good but not great prospect.

 

[kings11]

I've said before in the Kings board:

Forbort would be best as a #6 defenseman. He has shown the inability to anchor his own pairing, and he doesn't have a particular skill to further pace the game or tilt the ice in his team's favor (whether it's a big hit, puck movement, etc). He's managed to play way above his head for many years, but he would thrive best in a minimal role.

I was hoping Toffoli would be traded at last offseason. He's a supplemental scorer, like Michael Ryder. He'll never drive the play. However, he's talented, so with a play driver he can contribute a lot, preferrably on the second line.

Carter's the biggest mystery to me. I'm willing to trade him to get younger, but he has been a consistent scoring threat who brought the best out of Toffoli and Pearson just a couple years ago. I still don't think he was fully recovered from his injury last year. I think he can still play on the second line if he recovers, otherwise his two-way ability makes him acceptable on the third line.

I'm never good at guessing value, so I won't bother. That's just my honest assessment of what you'd get if you trade for them.

I don’t think he was fully healed either, which makes what he did that same year so incredible and gives me hope he will return to at least 75%. At 75% Jeff Carter is still between above average/elite 2C, and much better than most teams 2C.

 

[Gentle Man]

Definitely available. Excellent second-pairing defenseman. Left handed, but regularly plays both sides. Probably for a second round pick and a good but not great prospect.

What prospect position are you looking to fill? We dont have our own 2nd this year but we do have Pitt's

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I was trying to know his value, not trying to lowball, while giving my opinion on what I would not pay for Forbert from what I saw from him.

He is a number 5-6, who can play 20 min+ a night if needed, reliable in defence, but slow and unable to generate offence with a good and short contract.

You said you were not looking for Evans or prospects of similar value. I assumed you were looking for grade A/B prospects since, for me, Evans is a C prospect.

We got a younger Top6 in Kulak by giving a C prospect (Valiev) and an AHL legend at the end of his carreer (Taormina), so if the price is a lot higher, I must of understimated him, my mistake.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

All good my friend there was no offense taken and sorry if my response felt like it had. Yes his value to this king fan is higher then a C prospect but as you have seen not all king fans can agree on his value as well. *fun fact i don't think most kings fan can agree on the sky being blue but that is just a fact of being a king fan. I would think his value is somewhere between a high 3rd and a c prospect and late 2nd at best The assets coming have to be expansion except. Right now we have a glut meh forwards coming So i would probably have the return be just picks.

 

[Carl182]

All good my friend there was no offense taken and sorry if my response felt like it had. Yes his value to this king fan is higher then a C prospect but as you have seen not all king fans can agree on his value as well. *fun fact i don't think most kings fan can agree on the sky being blue but that is just a fact of being a king fan. I would think his value is somewhere between a high 3rd and a c prospect and late 2nd at best The assets coming have to be expansion except. Right now we have a glut meh forwards coming So i would probably have the return be just picks.

We wont be able to make a trade then. As I said we were able to get a better defenceman for way less than your asking price in Kulak. I dont think any team will offer a top 75 pick for him.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Definitely available. Excellent second-pairing defenseman. Left handed, but regularly plays both sides. Probably for a second round pick and a good but not great prospect.

Excellent 3rd pair D. Like a lot of mobile LHD, he can switch sides, but one side is definitely better than the other. Passable 2nd pair guy, if your top 3 is deep. One of the major issues the Kings have had is not having another top 4 D since Voynov, forcing Martinez to play more than he should.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

We wont be able to make a trade then. As I said we were able to get a better defenceman for way less than your asking price in Kulak. I dont think any team will offer a top 75 pick for him.

I very much disagree i can seen him getting a pick in the 55-70 range depending on the timing. He is a good defensive defense man that i think still hasn't played his best hockey. The defensive type of defense man play there best hockey later in there career and imo Forbort still hasn't got to this point. Also i don't see ur Kulak as a better player then Forbort as one year is a enough games to tell anything just my opinion thou Forbort up until this year was a plus player on the best defensive teams in nhl Defensive play is not flashy and doesn't translate well into the stat sheets but it does win hockey games.

 

[kilowatt]

Excellent 3rd pair D. Like a lot of mobile LHD, he can switch sides, but one side is definitely better than the other. Passable 2nd pair guy, if your top 3 is deep. One of the major issues the Kings have had is not having another top 4 D since Voynov, forcing Martinez to play more than he should.

Well, that’s one opinion. Over the past four years, Martinez has the 51st-most points amongst defenseman. Over that period, he has averaged 21:46 minutes of ice time per game. Points aren’t a perfect metric by any means, but he gets shots through on the powerplay and does a pretty good job on the penalty kill. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that he has consistently been a very good second-pairing defenseman over the past four years and he’s on a great contract to go along with it.

I’m not trying to oversell him. I agree that he’s better on his natural side, but that shouldn’t be a huge surprise. Look at him in last year’s playoffs - he averaged 27 minutes per game and stepped up as the #1 defenseman when Doughty and Muzzin were out. If he’s on your second pair, you could do a lot worse. Especially if he’s your #4 guy.

 

[Gentle Man]

2nd + McCoshen or Pysyk for Martinez?

 

[Carl182]

I very much disagree i can seen him getting a pick in the 55-70 range depending on the timing. He is a good defensive defense man that i think still hasn't played his best hockey. The defensive type of defense man play there best hockey later in there career and imo Forbort still hasn't got to this point. Also i don't see ur Kulak as a better player then Forbort as one year is a enough games to tell anything just my opinion thou Forbort up until this year was a plus player on the best defensive teams in nhl Defensive play is not flashy and doesn't translate well into the stat sheets but it does win hockey games.

The way you talk about him reminds me of the way I talked about Gorges back them with the habs, so maybe he has more value then I taught.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on Forbort, I dont see him play a lot, since I'm in Montréal.

With out system based on speed I dont think he would be the perfect fit but he would still makes our left side better no doubt.

This is why, I think, Montreal would not pay a top 75 pick for him, he's not exactly what we need, but still an upgrade. It's been a pleasure, thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

 

[KingCanadain1976]

The way you talk about him reminds me of the way I talked about Gorges back them with the habs, so maybe he has more value then I taught.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on Forbort, I dont see him play a lot, since I'm in Montréal.

With out system based on speed I dont think he would be the perfect fit but he would still makes our left side better no doubt.

This is why, I think, Montreal would not pay a top 75 pick for him, he's not exactly what we need, but still an upgrade. It's been a pleasure, thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

I never said he as a fit for Montreal because I honestly don't think he is but you were the one that was interested in him so I never commented on the fit for ur team. Interesting fact i just looked up on Forbort is 47 th in total ice time in the nhl for a defense man. This has value despite what you think. Also he achieved this with almost no power play time to boost the numbers. He does spend a lot of time on the penalty kill ( he was 37th in the nhl on pk time) He is also on a cheap contract. I wish u luck to find someone similar for the price u want. Lets not forget his cap for mins played adds to his value. Yes he had a bad year but i don't see the kings selling low on a defense man that has yet to play his best hockey

 

[Carl182]

I never said he as a fit for Montreal because I honestly don't think he is but you were the one that was interested in him so I never commented on the fit for ur team. Interesting fact i just looked up on Forbort is 47 th in total ice time in the nhl for a defense man. This has value despite what you think. Also he achieved this with almost no power play time to boost the numbers. He does spend a lot of time on the penalty kill ( he was 37th in the nhl on pk time) He is also on a cheap contract. I wish u luck to find someone similar for the price u want. Lets not forget his cap for mins played adds to his value. Yes he had a bad year but i don't see the kings selling low on a defense man that has yet to play his best hockey

I have interest in any LD with our lack of depth. I uneerstand he has value. Still I dont think he is worth a top 75 pick now.

 

[KingCanadain1976]

I have interest in any LD with our lack of depth. I uneerstand he has value. Still I dont think he is worth a top 75 pick now.

Which is why there is a hf board everyone has there own opinion but any defense man playing that many mins on a cheap contract has at least that sorta value. Find a similar player like him on similar contract and go ask a team if they would give him up for your price I highly doubt u will get any takers

 

[tomd]

The fact that not a single Kings fan would bemoan the loss of Forbort, Toffoli, or Carter tells you a lot about their worth. And it's not an age thing either...Forbort and Toffoli are just entering their prime age-wise. All three were truly terrible this year. Forbort is what he is...a 3rd pairing depth defenseman totally miscast in his role in LA. Toffoli just seems to have totally lost his game in the last year and a half. Carter might have been feeling the effects of his injury the year before or he might be done...but with 3 years left on his contract he will be very difficult for Blake to move.

 

[Carl182]

Which is why there is a hf board everyone has there own opinion but any defense man playing that many mins on a cheap contract has at least that sorta value. Find a similar player like him on similar contract and go ask a team if they would give him up for your price I highly doubt u will get any takers

We got Kulak and Folin last year for a lot less than you are asking for Forbort.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What would you be looking for from the Devils for Toffoli?

 

[KingsHockey24]

What would you be looking for from the Devils for Toffoli?

Hughes

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Hughes

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

How is Martinez defensively? The Devils' most glaring need is a defensive partner for Severson. I'd imagine Ty Smith will be on the 2nd pairing with Vatanen, so that would put Martinez on the first pair with Severson. I'd prefer to acquire someone better than Martinez for that role, but it could be valuable to have a lower-profile guy there in case Smith shines and he displaces the top-pairing LHD.

If Shero isn't able to land a higher-profile LHD like Brodin, I'd consider Alec Martinez as a consolation prize. I'm on record saying that Martinez isn't what we need, but, for discussion's sake, would Mueller + NSH/BOS 2nd suffice?

 

[verbalkint47]

I'd like to see Blake package Toffoli and Campbell. I could see a number of teams being interested at the draft. Buffalo, Philly and Carolina come to mind.