News Article: "Seven Canucks On Thin Ice" A Training Camp Preview

[ChilliBilly]

Its a sad situation when you have a ton of players that really should be the 13 - 14 forward on a team, but are really going to have a hard time clearing waivers.

 

[stampedingviking]

Craig Button was on Sekeres and Price today. He was asked who his bounce back candidate is for next season. He picked Granlund, mentioned the likes of Eriksson, Gagner, and Hutton, but said Granlund was in a different class from those guys. He's had one "off" season according to Button. Why does the media love this guy so much?

Because he's nowhere near as bad as some like to make out on this forum?

 

[stampedingviking]

Only players in that list that bring anything to the team and Gaunce, Archibald, and maybe Goldy.

 

[Grub]

It’s looks more like a list of every prospect you could think of.

Not sure why though.

Let the man be... let him dream. Reality will soon hit him when he goes through several drafts.

 

[JT Milker]

Use Sutter EXACTLY how you used him last season. The man was finally deployed correctly and we reaped the benefits.

Oh boy did we ever

 

[forty47seven]

Because he's nowhere near as bad as some like to make out on this forum?

Is he a consistent 20 goal guy who had a bad year like Button was suggesting? Taylor and Kuzma think Granlund should be a permanent fixture in the top six on the same premise. The truth is somewhere in between the most negative views on HF and these lofty views held by the media. It's a lot closer to the former than the latter IMO.

 

[Melvin]

Is he a consistent 20 goal guy who had a bad year like Button was suggesting? Taylor and Kuzma think Granlund should be a permanent fixture in the top six on the same premise. The truth is somewhere in between the most negative views on HF and these lofty views held by the media. It's a lot closer to the former than the latter IMO.

48 GP | 18 P (8 G)
47 GP | 10 P (7 G)
69 GP | 32 P (19 G)
53 GP | 12 P (8 G)

Hmmm which one is the outlier, must be last year.

 

[Scott Stevens]

Nice writeup op i agree those are the 7 fwds who are on thin ice and in correct order. I think and hope Gagner is gone, Granlund too

I feel Lipesic will be JUST fine. Im hopeful on Goldobin but we will see. Will see with Mott what we gott as the season begins. Almost FOR SURE he will begin in Utica

FACT ?

 

[VanJack]

If this was a 'true rebuild' guys like Gagner, Nilsson and Del Zotto would be parked in the minors (they'd all clear waivers easily). But of course we know that won't happen. I suspect they'll keep Goldy as the 13th forward, because they'd lose him on waivers for sure. Motte is waiver-exempt so he's in Utica. Gaunce and Archibald are Utica bound and the Canucks wouldn't be too concerned if one or both got claimed off waivers.

Granlund seems to be a favorite of Green, even if it's win a checking role. That leaves Leipsic, who has the advantage of being able to play anywhere in the lineup, from the first to fourth lines. So it's probably between him and Goldy. Of course there's always the inevitable injuries that could delay that decision.

 

[PG Canuck]

48 GP | 18 P (8 G)
47 GP | 10 P (7 G)
69 GP | 32 P (19 G)
53 GP | 12 P (8 G)

Hmmm which one is the outlier, must be last year.

Wonder which year he was forced down our throats and handed PP time no matter his performance. Probably last year too.

 

[StreetHawk]

"Seven Canucks On Thin Ice" A Training Camp Preview

Article by: Hockey Intangibles - Click here to view!

look into the future of the Vancouver Canucks, 2011 Team Comparisons, and a look into Canucks Seven players with the most to prove at this Septembers training camp. Fun times at Canucks Camp.

Hope you all have a great week! Any support or constructive criticism is welcome.

Thanks folks.

Motte doesn’t need to clear waivers so don’t see him in thin ice. Given the contracts here and his two way deal without waivers he’s buried IMO.

Archie, likely waivers and call up.

Agree with the other 5. Eriksson due to contract makes the team, but another bad year and I really think the management group takes its lumps and dumps him. He’s owed $14 million from this point forward in cash. Most in SB though. He only has a NTC now so he can be waived. See if he wants to be reddened down to Utica.

Bo, Brock, Bear, Beagle, Roussel, Sutter, schaller, Pettersson, virtanen and eriksson are locks for the roster. So, that’s 10 guys.

Leaves 3 or 4 spots depending on how they wish to start the year up front.

Granny, gagner, gaunce are are 1 way deals. Gagner needs to show as much as any prospect given his output last season.

Goldy, gaudette, leipsic, dahlin and the other 2 in motte and archibald are the younger guys competing for a spot.

Goldy and leipsic need to clear waivers so that impacts them.

Is the team prepared to eat gagner contract to start in the ahl if need be? Would tell them something if no team claims him. Would they retain on him to get rid of him?

 

[elitepete]

Would you like a cup of tea my kind sir?

 

[elitepete]

I like Goldobin’s offensive potential a lot, but his defensive game and compete level is terrible. He REALLY needs to step up here.

Gaunce and Archie are kind of meh for me. I don’t dislike them, as I think both guys work their butts off, but both guys are fringe NHL’ers. Both guys are good 13th forwards.

Gaunce and Archibald are good 4th liners.

 

[pgj98m3]

Gaunce and Archibald are good 4th liners.

And we currently have a roster which is largely 4th liners....how many 4th liners does a rebuilding team need??????

 

[elitepete]

And we currently have a roster which is largely 4th liners....how many 4th liners does a rebuilding team need??????

wtf

All I said is those 2 are good 4th liners.

There are worse players we have on our roster.... like Gagner Granlund, and Schaller.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Gaunce and Archibald are good 4th liners.

Maybe on a rebuilding team in Vancouver, but by NHL standards? I don’t think so. Both men are average to slightly below average 4th liners....both of which would even be 13th calibre forwards on a good team.

I think it’s high time that we stop *only* using advanced analytics to make our decisions for us........or stop repeating in parrot fashion what *alpha* poster MS is saying on here.

 

[Horse McHindu]

wtf

All I said is those 2 are good 4th liners.

There are worse players we have on our roster.... like Gagner Granlund, and Schaller.

Schaller is better than Gaunce and Archibald.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Just look at what other "good" players for the Canucks have done on other teams.

Mike "50 point" Santorelli who can't even stick in the NHL.

Mason "good 2nd liner" Raymond who couldn't even get a second contract with the pre-Nylander Leafs.

Shawn "20 goal" Matthias who has only scored 21 goals since playing for the Canucks 5 seasons ago.

Nick "carried Pittsburgh to a cup" Bonino who is a 25 point player making over 4 million dollars

Like clockwork, the "value" players that the "value" fans keeps hyping up aren't good at all.

 

[Bougieman]

With all this fresh young talent, Motte is like the forgotten Canuck.

I mean, literally. I forgot he was a Canuck.

He's also an interesting player to watch. I believe he has some real upside we haven't really gotten a good look at yet. Hoping he'll get some ice time on the Canucks this year. Depending on the injury situation, you never know how things will shake out.

 

[n00bxQb]

Gritty is not a word I would use to describe Granlund.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Just look at what other "good" players for the Canucks have done on other teams.

Mike "50 point" Santorelli who can't even stick in the NHL.

Mason "good 2nd liner" Raymond who couldn't even get a second contract with the pre-Nylander Leafs.

Shawn "20 goal" Matthias who has only scored 21 goals since playing for the Canucks 5 seasons ago.

Nick "carried Pittsburgh to a cup" Bonino who is a 25 point player making over 4 million dollars

Like clockwork, the "value" players that the "value" fans keeps hyping up aren't good at all.

In fairness to Raymond, he was never the same player after Boychuk broke his back.

There are a lot of other good players that were the drizzling shits after leaving Vancouver. Hodgson, Hansen, Lack, and Erhoff come to mind. Kesler has never really been that great in Anaheim either. While all of us would likely appreciate Kevin Bieksa punching out Caitlyn Jenner with his new Superman punch move, Bieksa hasn’t bee great in Anaheim either (although he was already sharply declining during his last year in Vancouver).

 

[Horse McHindu]

With all this fresh young talent, Motte is like the forgotten Canuck.

I mean, literally. I forgot he was a Canuck.

He's also an interesting player to watch. I believe he has some real upside we haven't really gotten a good look at yet. Hoping he'll get some ice time on the Canucks this year. Depending on the injury situation, you never know how things will shake out.

Great point about Motte.

If you noticed however, I was one of the few guys that regularly mentioned him in the line up combination thread.

My hope is that Motte eats out Gagner and Granlund and earns that 4th line RW spot.

My hope is that Schaller-Beagle-Motte becomes our 4th line.

Baertschi-Horvat-Boeser
Leipsic-Pettersson-Virtanen
Roussel-Sutter-Eriksson
Schaller-Beagle-Motte

If Gaudette has a good camp and is ready, then bye bye Loui Eriksson or perhaps even Sutter (I’d keep Sutter personally).

 

[Intangibos]

Only 7 should be more..
Archibald,Gaunce,Grandlund,Gagner,Leipsic,Motte,Goldobin.
I would add Hutton only because i dont think Green is a fan.
Eriksson just because,,and even Tanev,stay healthy or stay home...

I agree about Hutton, I like him a lot. Although he needs to improve and work harder I think he isn't that bad and he still has a lot of upside if he actually focuses on being a professional, assuming reports that he isn't are true.

However, I disagree with a few things here. On the topic of Gaunce though I don't think he's on thin ice at all. Not only do I think he's a very underrated player as the objective of hockey is to score more than your opponents, Gaunce is extremely effective defensively. If the team gets 20 goals for and 18 goals against with a player A and the team gets 5 goals for and 2 goals against with player B, player B is more valuable with a +3 rather than a +2. Obviously ice time comes into play, and something that is overlooked is the entertainment value for the fans that player A provides more of, but for a defensive player it's fine. Gaunce is not only effective defensively, but I think Green actually recognizes it. There is a reason Gaunce gets huge D-zone starts and it's not just because he doesn't score. Granlund isn't effective offensively either and he doesn't get the tough deployment Gaunce does. Green has identified Gaunce as an excellent defensive player so I do not think he's on thin ice. Even if you disagree that Gaunce is an effective player, based on the deployment I think Green disagrees so he still would not be on thin ice.

In regards to Eriksson he is an effective player. He isn't a 6.5m player but he does produce at 38 point pace over 50 games and I don't think he got the powerplay time or linemates Baertschi did. His first season here was absolutely brutal but last season he was an effective player. It's just a case of his contract being extremely inflated for what he provides, but he's not getting traded with that contract and he's not bad enough to be sitting in the press box. He can play safely in the middle 6.

Leipsic and Goldobin are interesting. They both ooze offensive talent but oh my god are they f***ing bad defensively. Especially Leipsic who doesn't even seem to make an effort defensively unlike Goldobin who tries and fails. I think they will get a full season as they'll be fun to watch and their defensive game can be improved and maybe they'll put up enough points to somewhat mask their shortcomings. I do think Leipsic has a higher chance of sitting in the box though as coaches aren't likely to tolerate him coasting. I'm actually very excited to watch Goldobin this year as it's his boom or bust year. If he plays with the right linemates, for example someone like Pettersson who has the offensive ability to match along with great defensive play, he could turn some heads. Obviously he may not but I think that's a pretty low bar to be considered on thin ice.

The issue with Leipsic is just roster space, but I would really like to give him a shot especially if Dahlen doesn't make the roster.

Virtanen should be on there. Only reason he isn't is because he was 6th overall pick and a local kid.

Honestly I really disagree with this. I absolutely hated the pick and I still do. However, Virtanen actually played well defensively last year and IIRC was one of our better defensive forwards. On top of that I think the last maybe 30 games of the season he turned some heads. He wasn't finishing like he needs to but he definitely took a step in the right direction and I'm very hopeful he'll come out of camp at least where he left off or even better. I think right now he's absolutely fine as a bottom 6 player, which obviously isn't where we want him to be based on his draft position and who we passed on, but again doesn't really qualify as thin ice. Given Sutter's unique "talent" to be a 10-15g guy literally no matter where in the lineup he plays whether he's with elite offensive guys on the top line or in a defensive role on the 3rd line, I think a 3rd line of Eriksson-Sutter-Virtanen could be a very solid, albeit extremely overpaid, 3rd line with a lot of potential to break out and get some odd man rushes while playing very sound defensively.

Gritty is not a word I would use to describe Granlund.

To his credit I think he tries to be, he just can't. The number of times I see him getting shoved around between whistles and at the end of periods is very interesting. Maybe he gets under people's skin though I'm not sure how. He is very weak on the puck though and doesn't seem to actually get anybody with anything.

Because he's nowhere near as bad as some like to make out on this forum?

Weak defensively, weak along the boards, and underwhelming offensively. Sure last season was bad for him but during his tenure here he has been gifted butter soft matchups and lots of power play time. Maybe he can put it together but I think he's definitely on thin ice because if he doesn't show some significant improvement he doesn't belong in the NHL.

Gaunce and Archibald are good 4th liners.

Gaunce is a great 4th liner, Archibald is okay/fringe. I don't think he brings the toughness and intensity someone in his position should and I don't think he's anything special on either side of the puck although he's not downright bad. With the bizarre acquisitions of Beagle and Roussel he is made redundant by similar players with insane contracts we would probably have to pay to unload. He could easily be a 4th liner/13th forward somewhere in the NHL, but I doubt he fits on this roster.

Baertschi - Horvat - Boeser
Dahlen/Pettersson - Pettersson/Dahlen - Goldobin
Eriksson - Sutter - Virtanen
Roussel - Beagle - Gaunce

Boucher/Leipsic/Motte/whoever for 13th forward if we have to, though I'd like to keep 7 D but I would like to see what Leipsic can do. Boucher is probably done. He did score at a 40 pt pace 1 year but has sucked ever since and I would be absolutely shocked if he made it out of camp without a trip to Utica. I doubt he even gets claimed on waivers.

If we do run with with 7 D split time for Gaudette and Gadjovich or whatever waiver exempt player as needed could be good if they play well at camp and Utica, but I would definitely want to alternate them as it won't be healthy for them to be sitting out for any significant length. I'm very happy to give our young guys maintenance days from time to time to slot some other kids in the lineup who deserve some NHL time. We don't need Dahlen/Pettersson/Goldobin/Boeser/Horvat/Virtanen etc to play 82. 70 would be absolutely fine and probably very good for them and obviously we'll have injuries to fit them in. Especially if we dump a guy like Del Zotto, Gudbranson (lol) or Stetcher.

I'd like to see something like this, although Dahlen especially is a question mark for camp as he might spend some time in Utica. I really like Baertschi but he doesn't belong on a 1st line. If Dahlen really does impress at camp I'd like to see him with Horvat and Boeser instead. I don't think we should staple players to each other like Dahlen/Pettersson just because they've played together before, players can find chemistry with other players. It's a good thing we moved Burrows up the lineup instead of keeping him with Kesler/Hansen. If Dahlen and Leipsic show well I wouldn't mind trading him for an early 2nd or him + a 3rd or something for a late 1st. I suck at gauging the value of picks, but we did trade a 2nd for him before he solidified himself as a 2nd liner in the NHL so I would assume his value is higher.

Hutton - Tanev
Edler - Gudbranson
Del Zotto - Stetcher
Biega

Gudbranson doesn't deserve it but he's on the roster and he won't be playing 15 minutes on the 3rd pairing. Edler can cover for him while Hutton played his best hockey with Tanev. Realistically though we will see Hutton paired with Gudbranson and Hutton will take the heat for constantly having to cover for Gudbranson's ineptitude. It's a damn shame we will never trade him as his value around the league is still ridiculously high for what an, in my opinion, fringe NHL player provides. He's a #6/7 guy from what I've seen and is seen as a top 4 D around the league. I'd take McCann back for him in a heartbeat who's numbers are artificially low due to the C depth ahead of him leaving him to play with 3rd liners and no PP time. McCann's numbers are actually good considering his deployment IMO. Still though we have a lack of RD which makes it tough to fill the spot.

Del Zotto doesn't deserve it either but he's not going anywhere. Biega isn't waiver exempt and this guy doesn't deserve to ride the bus in Utica when we have someone like Gudbranson in the roster. If someone like Juolevi or even Pouliot/McEneny/Sautner look good I'd like to see if we could pump Del Zotto's stats with soft matchups and PP time and ship him out. He has a reputation around the league as a good offensive player and last year at the start of the season there were articles about him being our #1 guy. Does he have a NTC?

I really want to like Stetcher, but I don't know. He tries so hard, but he just isn't good. Towards the end of the season he started taking more chances with the puck and rushing it up the ice, which I really like as it's what he needs to do to make it in the NHL. Still though we have a depth problem on the right side and Biega isn't a full time #6 guy.

 

[ddawg1950]

On this team, there should be about seven players who are not on thin ice.

 

[brokenhole]

Schaller is better than Gaunce and Archibald.

Of course he is better after all he is a Benning guy, even tho he hasn't played a game in a Canucks sweater. Schaller played on a very good playoff callibre team with one of the easiest travel schedules in the N.H.L. being sheltered by a very good forward group. Lets see how he play's on a bottom 5 crapolla outfit like the Canucks with arguably the toughest travel shedule in the league. Lets see how he does when the injuries happen and he is thrust into 3rd/2nd line for extended minutes, of course he could get inured himself in this outfit. Of course he is better like other Benning vets like Loui, Goober, Del Zotto, Gagne and on and on.