Seth Jones' Future Part II: Jonesing for a trade? (Sportsnet reports he wants to test free agency)

[Toe Pick]

More on Jones from Lebrun via the Athletic today:

One crazy rumor that popped my way this week via two league sources is that the Avs were kicking around the idea of renting out Seth Jones for a year in a trade with Columbus and going all-in for the Cup next season.

I mean, yes!

But again, as I’ve stated before, I assume the Blue Jackets at all costs need to explore the market where Jones is traded after signing an extension with his new team, which therefore would maximize the asset value.

Secondly, as noted above, the Avs have their hands full with Makar and other key free agents.

Still, I do love the idea of loading up for a year if you can live with the acquisition price. You’ve got another two years before MacKinnon’s big extension will be a cap-eating reality.

The Philadelphia Flyers and Chicago Blackhawks probably make more sense for Jones, I’ve mentioned that a few times with the Flyers. They’ve got the parts to make a deal work. But if Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen wants Jones dealt West …

Whoever makes the biggest offer whether they want him as a rental or for long term works for me. But common sense would say the biggest offer will come from someone who thinks they can get him long term.

 

[Ararana]

Avs fan coming in peace, I understand the best case scenario here for you guys is Jones agrees to extend somewhere, and I'm in the camp that would trade for an extended Jones in a heartbeat. But assuming Leburn's rumor here and Jones doesn't agree to extend anywhere, what king of rental package would you guys be looking for from Colorado?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Avs fan coming in peace, I understand the best case scenario here for you guys is Jones agrees to extend somewhere, and I'm in the camp that would trade for an extended Jones in a heartbeat. But assuming Leburn's rumor here and Jones doesn't agree to extend anywhere, what king of rental package would you guys be looking for from Colorado?

Most of us are not working on the "rental" assumption. We expect the package to be for an extended Jones or an equivalent package to keep Jones from extending somewhere else until a team has a chance to bring him in and win him over. Point being, all packages are in competition with each other, irrespective of long-term intent.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Avs fan coming in peace, I understand the best case scenario here for you guys is Jones agrees to extend somewhere, and I'm in the camp that would trade for an extended Jones in a heartbeat. But assuming Leburn's rumor here and Jones doesn't agree to extend anywhere, what king of rental package would you guys be looking for from Colorado?

My guess is 2 good pieces (ie #1 draft picks or good prospects or young players). We need a future 1C so that is the thing most likely to get our attention from a prospect or young player.
I'm also sure we could take back a partial contract in return (bad contract where other team retains 25-50%) to make the salary work as long as it's a short term deal.

I know we all hope we can trade him for 3-4 good pieces (and that is possible if he is extended) but for a full season I think it's going to be 2 good pieces at a minimum.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Avs fan coming in peace, I understand the best case scenario here for you guys is Jones agrees to extend somewhere, and I'm in the camp that would trade for an extended Jones in a heartbeat. But assuming Leburn's rumor here and Jones doesn't agree to extend anywhere, what king of rental package would you guys be looking for from Colorado?

We also assume Colorado would be on Jones shortlist of places he'd be willing to sign long term.

 

[Ararana]

We also assume Colorado would be on Jones shortlist of places he'd be willing to sign long term.

I seriously don't understand where this Seth wants to be in Colorado rumor came from. Is everyone jumping on Sakic telling Seth's dad to focus on his skating? Because if that's the case Sakic should start calling every high prospects fathers tomorrow.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

I seriously don't understand where this Seth wants to be in Colorado rumor came from. Is everyone jumping on Sakic telling Seth's dad to focus on his skating? Because if that's the case Sakic should start calling every high prospects fathers tomorrow.

It's not a rumor, it's an assumption. It's coming from the fact he grew up there and they are really good. We also assume Dallas would be on the list since his family lives there now.

 

[DarkandStormy]

It's not a rumor, it's an assumption. It's coming from the fact he grew up there and they are really good. We also assume Dallas would be on the list since his family lives there now.

His dad is currently an assistant for the 76ers so...

 

[LoneFunyan]

My guess is 2 good pieces (ie #1 draft picks or good prospects or young players). We need a future 1C so that is the thing most likely to get our attention from a prospect or young player.
I'm also sure we could take back a partial contract in return (bad contract where other team retains 25-50%) to make the salary work as long as it's a short term deal.

I know we all hope we can trade him for 3-4 good pieces (and that is possible if he is extended) but for a full season I think it's going to be 2 good pieces at a minimum.

If the Jones trade evolves into a lesser asset list because he won't resign anywhere, I hope the thinking is "all prospects, no picks". Colorado's pick next year is likely to be around the bottom third of the round, at best, so it's not like we're going to get one of the top-shelf prospects if the package is something like 1st rounder+. I'd much rather target prospects+ whose post-draft development we can already see and forget the draft pick.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Brilliant.

 

[CBJ goalie]

As Homer Simpson once said "It works on so many levels!"

 

[majormajor]

Avs fan coming in peace, I understand the best case scenario here for you guys is Jones agrees to extend somewhere, and I'm in the camp that would trade for an extended Jones in a heartbeat. But assuming Leburn's rumor here and Jones doesn't agree to extend anywhere, what king of rental package would you guys be looking for from Colorado?

Lebrun's rumor... is what exactly?

The whole bit about Seth intending to explore free agency is just a euphemism for "I'm not re-signing here". You can usually assume that Lebrun gets his stuff straight from Brisson.

He'd obviously be a great fit in Colorado. I'm not even going to play around with rental ideas to Colorado. They pay the long term price or he goes elsewhere.

 

[Goulet17]

Lebrun's rumor... is what exactly?

The whole bit about Seth intending to explore free agency is just a euphemism for "I'm not re-signing here". You can usually assume that Lebrun gets his stuff straight from Brisson.

He'd obviously be a great fit in Colorado. I'm not even going to play around with rental ideas to Colorado. They pay the long term price or he goes elsewhere.

I don't see Colorado paying a "long-term" price in a Jones trade as it is difficult to see how the Avs can make it work salary cap wise beyond this season. Colorado's more pressing need is also at 2c or the center position in general going forward. I would not put much credence in the Seth Jones to Colorado rumors in general. It just lacks a certain common sense IMO. Columbus may get a large price from another NHL team in a Seth Jones trade, it just does not seem like a good fit with Colorado.

 

[EspenK]

I don't see Colorado paying a "long-term" price in a Jones trade as it is difficult to see how the Avs can make it work salary cap wise beyond this season. Colorado's more pressing need is also at 2c or the center position in general going forward. I would not put much credence in the Seth Jones to Colorado rumors in general. It just lacks a certain common sense IMO. Columbus may get a large price from another NHL team in a Seth Jones trade, it just does not seem like a good fit with Colorado.

First the Avs can go after Danault in free agency regardless of a trade for Jones.

Secondly the Avs have very little cap committed going forward. Yes, they have some big signings to do but I'm pretty sure Sakic can figure out a deal for Jones that works cap wise if he really wants him.

 

[Goulet17]

First the Avs can go after Danault in free agency regardless of a trade for Jones.

Secondly the Avs have very little cap committed going forward. Yes, they have some big signings to do but I'm pretty sure Sakic can figure out a deal for Jones that works cap wise if he really wants him.

Your arguments are based on a long term signing rather than a "rental," which is different than what has been speculated in the media. Even a long term signing seems challenging, when you factor in Rantanen's current contract, MacKinnon's upcoming contract, Landeskog's new contract (presumably), and Makar's contract. Colorado could easily have $36-40 MM AAV of their cap allocated to those 4 players, which does not include a long term contract for Jones.

 

[DarkandStormy]

First the Avs can go after Danault in free agency regardless of a trade for Jones.

Secondly the Avs have very little cap committed going forward. Yes, they have some big signings to do but I'm pretty sure Sakic can figure out a deal for Jones that works cap wise if he really wants him.

Rumors are Makar wants an 8x9 (he, Hughes, Heiskanen, and maybe a few others next year are reportedly looking at Chabot's 8x8 off his ELC and saying they're better than that). The Avs don't have that much cap space:
-34,850,000 committed to 7 forwards
-~$13.2m committed to 4 Dmen
-$0 committed to goalies (unless you count the $2m Francouz is owed)

That's "only" $33.45m of space for 3 Dmen, 6-7 forwards, and two goalies (subtract $2m off that $33m number if you're including Francouz as being on the team). Of course, there's still the Seattle pick to consider as well.

Free agents:
-Makar is an RFA. Do they go 8x8 (ish) or opt for a Werenski+ bridge (3 x 6ish)?
-Grubauer is a UFA. Can they afford to bring him back or are they ready to go with Francouz and Minder or Annunen?
-Landeskog is a UFA and they've signaled they want to do whatever they can to bring him back. At what cost, though?
-Other UFAs include Saad, Calvert (career seems over?), Bellemare, Liam O'Brien, and Patrik Nemeth.
-A couple other RFAs in Tyson Jost and Kiefer Sherwood.

If they keep Landeskog and sign Makar long term, then there just isn't much cap space left. The Jackets would probably have to retain on Jones and if that's the case I'm asking for Newhook and a 1st, or thereabouts.

 

[Crede777]

With Chicago working to move Keith and rumored to be in on Jones and/or Hamilton, I'm wondering if they're the frontrunners for trading for Jones.

Obviously I think Dach is off the table. He's likely untouchable and rightly so. Plus, trading Dach at this point in time for Chicago to get Jones is like a step backwards just to take a step forwards.

So what would you guys think that Chicago could offer?

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

With Chicago working to move Keith and rumored to be in on Jones and/or Hamilton, I'm wondering if they're the frontrunners for trading for Jones.

Obviously I think Dach is off the table. He's likely untouchable and rightly so. Plus, trading Dach at this point in time for Chicago to get Jones is like a step backwards just to take a step forwards.

So what would you guys think that Chicago could offer?

If Dach is off the table, I would insist on Boqvist + Reichel + 2 1sts if Jones is extending there.

 

[DarkandStormy]

With Chicago working to move Keith and rumored to be in on Jones and/or Hamilton, I'm wondering if they're the frontrunners for trading for Jones.

Obviously I think Dach is off the table. He's likely untouchable and rightly so. Plus, trading Dach at this point in time for Chicago to get Jones is like a step backwards just to take a step forwards.

So what would you guys think that Chicago could offer?

We should actually take Keith back as a "bad contract." He's "only" owed $2.1m this season and $1.5m next season in terms of actual dollars. Make Chicago pay us to take that contract off their hands.

Something like Jones for Keith, 2021(or '22) 1st round pick, 2021 (or '22) 2nd round pick, 2022 4th round pick, and one of Mitchell/Boqvist/Kalynuk. Move some picks up or down depending on which prospect/player is included of those three. Have no idea if that's fair value, but from an ownership perspective, taking on Keith's contract to "buy" a pick/prospect while the actual dollars owed are lower than the cap should be appealing.

 

[DJA]

We should actually take Keith back as a "bad contract." He's "only" owed $2.1m this season and $1.5m next season in terms of actual dollars. Make Chicago pay us to take that contract off their hands.

Something like Jones for Keith, 2021(or '22) 1st round pick, 2021 (or '22) 2nd round pick, 2022 4th round pick, and one of Mitchell/Boqvist/Kalynuk. Move some picks up or down depending on which prospect/player is included of those three. Have no idea if that's fair value, but from an ownership perspective, taking on Keith's contract to "buy" a pick/prospect while the actual dollars owed are lower than the cap should be appealing.

Keith is being dealt out west, likely to Vancouver, and with the NMC he'll get to go where he wants.

 

[VT]

We should actually take Keith back as a "bad contract." He's "only" owed $2.1m this season and $1.5m next season in terms of actual dollars. Make Chicago pay us to take that contract off their hands.

Something like Jones for Keith, 2021(or '22) 1st round pick, 2021 (or '22) 2nd round pick, 2022 4th round pick, and one of Mitchell/Boqvist/Kalynuk. Move some picks up or down depending on which prospect/player is included of those three. Have no idea if that's fair value, but from an ownership perspective, taking on Keith's contract to "buy" a pick/prospect while the actual dollars owed are lower than the cap should be appealing.

Keith has NMC Duncan Keith - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Kevo22363]

I wish Jarmo would figure out what Seth Jones' future is, the discussion is getting pretty stale.

 

[MissADD]

I wish Jarmo would figure out what Seth Jones' future is, the discussion is getting pretty stale.

I think pretty quick after the expansion draft we will know what is happening. I bet Jarmo has a pretty good idea what is gonna happen, but is just waiting until after the expansion draft

 

[cslebn]

I think pretty quick after the expansion draft we will know what is happening. I bet Jarmo has a pretty good idea what is gonna happen, but is just waiting until after the expansion draft

but I don’t want to wait 3 more weeks