SERIES DISCUSSION: Metro Semis | Pens vs. Rangers | Pt. 2 - Turn it up to 11

[Jaded-Fan]

Exactly. Don't take my arguments to say the Rangers are a great team or that we're better. All I'm pointing out is they've gotten lucky and probably overperforming and we've gotten really unlucky and are probably underperforming.

The Rangers are still a better team, but they've also gotten lucky to a degree, and we've gotten quite unlucky. It's a closer matchup than it looks.

Well there is no way that we could be as bad as the entire world seems to think.If for no other reason than we played with only five defenseman for a good part of the end of the year. Also, we are missing some guys, but it is funny how so many have been all over Letang, not just this year but most years, but suddenly his loss is like we have lost Bobby Hull, Mario and Gretzky all rolled into one. OMG, not Ehrhoff too??? Do I need to pull up the threads and quotes where everyone was calling him a waste of a signing. Yes, we have some no names replacing them, but all in all this team is fairly intact. That does not mean that the Rags should not be favored, are not better. It does mean that like with any playoff team, take them too lightly at your peril.

 

[Pancakes]

This speaks to your point. I looked at the last 20 games of the year, specifically.

Pretty interesting stuff, thanks.

Agreed, and I'm not going to rip on advanced stats too much because they can certainly be useful (some more than others at least), but like almost all statistics they have to be considered with other factors. Just like you talk about the Rangers above, I would also say that saying the Penguins "luck" should turn is misleading. As if we're a great offensive team that has just been unlucky. That's BS. Most of their forwards are devoid of goal scoring prowess. There's a lack of overall skill. The box scores don't lie. Not to mention the obvious fact that not all shots are created equal, especially in this day and age where guys will come down the wing and shoot it into the goaltender's gut just to get a face-off.

I think you're misconstruing my point a bit. I'm not implying we're a great offensive team that is getting unlucky. I'm saying even the teams with poor skill don't shoot at as poor a percentage as we have recently. I'm not saying we'll explode for goals but neither is it likely we'll shoot at such a horrendous percentage.

Given the amount of chances we generate if we start converting at more of a league average rate rather than worst in the league AINEC then we'll score a few more goals and that could make a big difference.

 

[The Old Master]

we've been whipped by weaker teams in the play offs on a regular bases. we are a way past due to repay some of that. imo why not start now?

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I think you're misconstruing my point a bit. I'm not implying we're a great offensive team that is getting unlucky. I'm saying even the teams with poor skill don't shoot at as poor a percentage as we have recently. I'm not saying we'll explode for goals but neither is it likely we'll shoot at such a horrendous percentage.

Given the amount of chances we generate if we start converting at more of a league average rate rather than worst in the league AINEC then we'll score a few more goals and that could make a big difference.

Ok I do get that and as usual I'm a victim of hyperbole at times. It IS simple though: They're a much better team than us and the stats reflect it. Sure you can adjust for a margin of error a little but these teams create those numbers they're not victims to them.

 

[Finesse]

we've been whipped by weaker teams in the play offs on a regular bases. we are a way past due to repay some of that. imo why not start now?

I first read your statement as "way past due to repeat some of that". And it makes sense either way, to be honest.

 

[Jesse]

SO the Rangers struggle to possess the puck and struggle to win face-offs...and all they did was almost win the Stanley Cup last spring, and then went on to win the Presidents' trophy this season.

It's back to the drawing board for advanced stats.

Again, that's such a simplistic view of such a complicated topic. And their numbers for this year are nowhere near that of last year. Last year they were actually monumentally better on paper.

 

[Ugene Magic]

what? we have guys that can hit the logo blind folded, on their knees, and from any where on the ice. heck even off the ice.

This would have made a great avatar theme.

 

[Pancakes]

Ok I do get that and as usual I'm a victim of hyperbole at times. It IS simple though: They're a much better team than us and the stats reflect it. Sure you can adjust for a margin of error a little but these teams create those numbers they're not victims to them.

Yeah I mean bottom line they're the better team and should win. But it's not as gross a mismatch as people are making it out to be. We have a decent chance at beating them. I think this series will be a lot more competitive than people think unless Fleury goes into playoff MAF mode.

 

[Pancakes]

Again, that's such a simplistic view of such a complicated topic. And their numbers for this year are nowhere near that of last year. Last year they were actually monumentally better on paper.

Yeah last year they were quite a good Fenwick team. Better than us. It wasn't a surprise that they did as well as they did because the underlying stats for them were all great.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Again, that's such a simplistic view of such a complicated topic. And their numbers for this year are nowhere near that of last year. Last year they were actually monumentally better on paper.

Right, but they were good last season and good again this season. Their team speed, size, four-line depth, shot-blocking ability, defensive and goaltending depth and quality coaching should tell everybody that.

Some teams are who they are. The Rangers are just a good hockey team. It's really that simple. I hate them but I also am not in denial.

 

[Shady Machine]

Well there is no way that we could be as bad as the entire world seems to think.If for no other reason than we played with only five defenseman for a good part of the end of the year. Also, we are missing some guys, but it is funny how so many have been all over Letang, not just this year but most years, but suddenly his loss is like we have lost Bobby Hull, Mario and Gretzky all rolled into one. OMG, not Ehrhoff too??? Do I need to pull up the threads and quotes where everyone was calling him a waste of a signing. Yes, we have some no names replacing them, but all in all this team is fairly intact. That does not mean that the Rags should not be favored, are not better. It does mean that like with any playoff team, take them too lightly at your peril.

It's not just Letang. It's Letang, Maatta, Ehrhoff, and Despres (and Pouliot if you consider him a regular in the lineup). That's not fairly intact.

 

[Gurglesons]

Right, but they were good last season and good again this season. Their team speed, size, four-line depth, shot-blocking ability, defensive and goaltending depth and quality coaching should tell everybody that.

Some teams are who they are. The Rangers are just a good hockey team. It's really that simple. I hate them but I also am not in denial.

They also lost Pouliot, Boyle, and Stralman. They lost their role players from the playoffs last year and let's not act like Nash hasn't faltered after tearing it up in the regular season before. 18 points in 41 games. St. Louis is a year older and they don't have his mother's death to draw around.

They are pretty much primed for an upset. I highly doubt they make it out of the East this year, even if it isn't us who takes them out.

Plus, Yandle and Boyle are the kind of defensemen that will let up soft goals.

 

[JWells16]

Just saw the Penguins video with Gary Roberts for his favorite playoff moments... God, this team needs that so badly.

 

[Shady Machine]

They also lost Pouliot, Boyle, and Stralman. They lost their role players from the playoffs last year and let's not act like Nash hasn't faltered after tearing it up in the regular season before. 18 points in 41 games. St. Louis is a year older and they don't have his mother's death to draw around.

They are pretty much primed for an upset. I highly doubt they make it out of the East this year, even if it isn't us who takes them out.

Plus, Yandle and Boyle are the kind of defensemen that will let up soft goals.

They lost those players and replaced them. Their younger players are better now and their defense is very, very good. It's one thing to be positive, but geez this is biased.

 

[Gurglesons]

They lost those players and replaced them. Their younger players are better now and their defense is very, very good. It's one thing to be positive, but geez this is biased.

Klein being out hurts them. Plus they have Tanner Glass in their line-up. Going from Stralman to Boyle on the second pairing is an issue.

When was the last time we saw a team that made the moves the Rags did at the trade deadline and favored this heavily actually did anything?

Vancouver?

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

They lost those players and replaced them. Their younger players are better now and their defense is very, very good. It's one thing to be positive, but geez this is biased.

Agreed. Time to step away from the computer for some I think. You get tunnel vision on this board and you come out of it with a warped perception of reality. That's not a knock, I think it legitimately happens.

I don't think it can be stated enough how much of a pure 1 seed vs. 8 seed this series is. We are incredibly flawed. They're one of the best teams in the league. You can use smoke and mirrors however you want to make it look like we have a good chance but outside of timely flukes this is as sure of a series outcome as you can have.

 

[Shady Machine]

Klein being out hurts them. Plus they have Tanner Glass in their line-up. Going from Stralman to Boyle on the second pairing is an issue.

When was the last time we saw a team that made the moves the Rags did at the trade deadline and favored this heavily actually did anything?

Vancouver?

Going from Letang to Lovejoy, Maatta to Scuderi, Ehrhoff to Chorney, etc etc is a much bigger issue than anything the Rangers have. Soo...

 

[Gurglesons]

Going from Letang to Lovejoy, Maatta to Scuderi, Ehrhoff to Chorney, etc etc is a much bigger issue than anything the Rangers have. Soo...

Like I said, I don't think we are going to win, just I don't think the Rags are going to make it to ECF.

Losing Letang killed our team. I love Letang.

 

[Shady Machine]

Like I said, I don't think we are going to win, just I don't think the Rags are going to make it to ECF.

Losing Letang killed our team. I love Letang.

Fair enough. I don't see a team that would be favored to beat the Rangers, but anything can happen in the playoffs.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Ahh the Letang excuse. Upper management will use it as well, and everybody's job will be safe.

 

[JQR]

Agreed. Time to step away from the computer for some I think. You get tunnel vision on this board and you come out of it with a warped perception of reality. That's not a knock, I think it legitimately happens.

I don't think it can be stated enough how much of a pure 1 seed vs. 8 seed this series is. We are incredibly flawed. They're one of the best teams in the league. You can use smoke and mirrors however you want to make it look like we have a good chance but outside of timely flukes this is as sure of a series outcome as you can have.

Exactly. Would I love to see an upset? Of course. But it's the same kind of anticipation I have when I check my lottery ticket against the winning numbers.

 

[billybudd]

Like I said, I don't think we are going to win, just I don't think the Rags are going to make it to ECF.

Losing Letang killed our team. I love Letang.

Been saying the Isles are the best team in the East all year and I still think that, even after they had a record like ours in the last two months.

 

[Gurglesons]

Fair enough. I don't see a team that would be favored to beat the Rangers, but anything can happen in the playoffs.

I think Caps, Tampa and Montreal all have better "playoffs" rosters. Not to mention players like Subban, Stamkos, and Ovie all have way better playoff performances than Nash. I just really am not that impressed by a defense that has both Boyle and Yandle, and I really, really like Yandle. Fact is they are both questionable defensively and soft. I understand that sounds ironic coming from someone that watches the Penguins.

 

[drpepper]

Will the Rangers beat the Pens? Probably

However, the overrating of the Rangers is amazing.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Will the Rangers beat the Pens? Probably

However, the overrating of the Rangers is amazing.

Actually I think the Rangers are a really good team amongst 6-8 really good teams in the league. It's more about the Penguins, who have a long list of forwards who don't score goals and a decimated defense, none of which is up for debate.