Value of: Sergachev to New Jersey

[HoseEmDown]

In the post you quote I calculated the cap space for the scenario, that Paquette and Killorn are traded without taking more than minimum contracts (700k) back, run a 20 man roster and there won't be the 9.5 million AAV available for your bridge deal proposal. So I think they need to move at least one of Gourde, Palat and Johnson, which all have a full NTC. For those players some of the same questions are valid:
Why would they want to leave a cup contender?
Why would they leave sunny income tax free Florida?
And league wide, over half the league is in a Cap Problem, so why would they lift their NTC to play for one of the bottom feeders with Cap?

And the next summer won't be any easier, if the cap stays flat, as Tampa has to extent or replace their cheapest forwards Coleman and Goodrow. This situation is dynamic and I don't see any simple solution. It will take a lot of work to keep all the players Tampa fans don't want to trade.

If they trade Paquette and Killorn for futures, sign Stephens, Verheaghe, Volkov, Joseph to 700-800k deals and bring up Foote they should have 7.6M to sign the 3 other RFA's. You then mention why would any of the players with a NTC waive to leave sunny, tax free, cup contending Tampa. Why would Sergachev, Cirelli or Cernak do the same and sign an offersheet somewhere else? Sure they won't be getting 6M from Tampa next season but the money is there if they're patient.

Next summer will be a lot better for Tampa. They have Johnson and Palat NTC becoming modified so easier to trade if needed. They will have the expansion draft which hopefully moves out some money. I don't think Tampa brought in Coleman and Goodrow to extend them after next season unless they were willing to take less money than they can get elsewhere. Tampa has all the RFA's they will be signing this offseason as well as Barre-Boulet, Katchouk, Raddysh and Fortier on the way. They could let them both walk and be fine.

 

[Baksfamous112]

How many players who you thought were going to be 80 point players were rumored to be in trades 18 months straight. I'm all ears. Not the we know Johnny Hockey might leave in 2 years but we don't want him on our team variety.

Lets revisit facts. Cooper and Drouin just did not get along at all. One of them had to go. Name any of the 4 sports and the great player wins over the coach.Do you understand why Cooper won? Because Y never saw Drouin as a great player. If you wants facts when Drouin was given a full year to play with TBL, TBL missed the playoffs w/ Bishop and Vazy in the nets. Of course Stamkos out didn't help but Drouin;s lack of 2 way play doesn't help either. Drouin linemates ie Killorn and Johnson went down in 16-17. Facts TBL number 1 goal was team defense adding Girardi, Serge, and later on Ryan Mc. Which forward did they trade to improve defense. Wow I'm stunned it was Drouin. Because he has such upside. From other teams perspective sure, but that ain't the reason. Its because he suxed at 200 feet play and Cooper knew this in 2016 and why he got sent down. It is 3 years later and people have still not figured out that Y to improve team traded Drouin off the team for better 2 way play.

Look at 16-17 forward listing from TBL. Its pretty radical NONE of them have been moved. (this offseason due to cap some have to go) but Drouin went HMMM.......
JOhnson
Killorn
Point
Kuch
Stamkos
Palat

All TBL had to do was play if safe if Drouin if was going to be an 80 point player was trade Palat or Johnson or Point (who was only 40 point player at the time) not add Girardi and enjoy Drouin's fruits. Heck they missed the playoffs and had excuse to fire Cooper and start a freash with Drouin. You really think TBL fan when yippee Drouin's cap space went to Girardi?

It is 3 years later and people still don't get why Drouin was traded. But keep thinking Y thought he was trading a potential all star in division if it helps your pride.

Teravainen to Carolina

Wheeler to Atlanta

Seguin to Dallas

Thornton to San Jose

Lindros to Philly

Ladd to Atlanta

To some extend:

Leddy to NYI

Byfuglien to Atlanta.

Those are just out of my head

 

[Flyer lurker]

Teravainen to Carolina

Wheeler to Atlanta

Seguin to Dallas

Thornton to San Jose

Lindros to Philly

Ladd to Atlanta

To some extend:

Leddy to NYI

Byfuglien to Atlanta.

Those are just out of my head

Now lets over the top of your head.
Lindros was never going to sign in Quebec. Lindros was not rumored to be traded 18 months for Flyers. Lindros wanted out of Philly when Clarke wanted Lindros to fly with a punctured lung and could have died. Death is a pretty good reason why you might want to be traded. Well done comparing apples to cars. STRIKE ONE

Ladd? Ladd??? Ladd? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA I said 80 not 50 point players which is what Drouin is. 50 point players all the time can be rumored to be traded for over a year.

Leddy?? When i think all star 1ST PAIRING d I got to tell you NICK LEDDY IS IN MY TOP 5. Maybe Leddy is rumored so much because Lou keep adding solid but overapid 5m players which kind of what Leddy is. SWING AND A MISS

Buff rumors - Every year Eklund would say Buff rumored to Philly etc. Every year Jets fans lol.

Thornton- got o'Connell fired within a year. Maybe that is why you don't see stars traded.

Blake Wheeler first 3 years with Boston were 45 pt in 81 games 38 pts in 82 games 27 points in 58 games. If you thought Wheeler was going to turn into what he is, good for you. I didn't.

Seguin - Finally a correct example. Thank you!

 

[Baksfamous112]

Now lets over the top of your head.
Lindros was never going to sign in Quebec. Lindros was not rumored to be traded 18 months for Flyers. Lindros wanted out of Philly when Clarke wanted Lindros to fly with a punctured lung and could have died. Death is a pretty good reason why you might want to be traded. Well done comparing apples to cars. STRIKE ONE

Ladd? Ladd??? Ladd? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA I said 80 not 50 point players which is what Drouin is. 50 point players all the time can be rumored to be traded for over a year.

Leddy?? When i think all star 1ST PAIRING d I got to tell you NICK LEDDY IS IN MY TOP 5. Maybe Leddy is rumored so much because Lou keep adding solid but overapid 5m players which kind of what Leddy is. SWING AND A MISS

Buff rumors - Every year Eklund would say Buff rumored to Philly etc. Every year Jets fans lol.

Thornton- got o'Connell fired within a year. Maybe that is why you don't see stars traded.

Blake Wheeler first 3 years with Boston were 45 pt in 81 games 38 pts in 82 games 27 points in 58 games. If you thought Wheeler was going to turn into what he is, good for you. I didn't.

Seguin - Finally a correct example. Thank you!

Well, Drouin was not a 80 points player when he was traded either. He certainly had the potential to be one, just as the players mentioned above. Some reached it, some didn’t.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Well, Drouin was not a 80 points player when he was traded either. He certainly had the potential to be one, just as the players mentioned above. Some reached it, some didn’t.

And some gms were smart and saw who would miss the potential.

 

[Baksfamous112]

And some gms were smart and saw who would miss the potential.

Yeah, yeah. Ok

 

[DistantThunderRep]

In the post you quote I calculated the cap space for the scenario, that Paquette and Killorn are traded without taking more than minimum contracts (700k) back, run a 20 man roster and there won't be the 9.5 million AAV available for your bridge deal proposal. So I think they need to move at least one of Gourde, Palat and Johnson, which all have a full NTC. For those players some of the same questions are valid:
Why would they want to leave a cup contender?
Why would they leave sunny income tax free Florida?
And league wide, over half the league is in a Cap Problem, so why would they lift their NTC to play for one of the bottom feeders with Cap?

And the next summer won't be any easier, if the cap stays flat, as Tampa has to extent or replace their cheapest forwards Coleman and Goodrow. This situation is dynamic and I don't see any simple solution. It will take a lot of work to keep all the players Tampa fans don't want to trade.

Am I typing my posts in another language other than English? When did I mention the rest of the roster? I have said specifically multiple times now, that moving Killorn and Paquette could be enough to sign our main 3 RFAs. I didn't mention the rest of the roster? Are you going out of your way to sidetrack the point because you have zero argument?

Buyout Coburn. Opens another 1.1M in cap space. Buyout Johnson as last case scenario. We don't need the assets back immediately anyway. Cap space is more important to us. Done? Anything else needed?

 

[TBF1972]

You then mention why would any of the players with a NTC waive to leave sunny, tax free, cup contending Tampa. Why would Sergachev, Cirelli or Cernak do the same and sign an offersheet somewhere else? Sure they won't be getting 6M from Tampa next season but the money is there if they're patient.

The big difference between Palat, Johnson and Gourde and the three RFAs is, that the first group is under contract for two or more seasons and have a guaranteed payday. Splitting up the 7.6m between Cernak, Sergachev and Cirelli might not work for all of them:
Cernak 1.8m
Sergachev 3.1m
Cirelli 2.7m

Each one of them looks extremely low even in the flat cap environment and I could see them looking for an offer sheet to force Tampa's hands. If Sergachev signs somewhere for 5m, Tampa could match and have him at a reasonable price, but the other two would be gone without further moves. If Tampa can't move Killorn and one of the other NTC contracts, they probably will have to move one of the three RFAs.
Obviously you could also trade Kucherov e.g. to the Rangers for Fox, Buchnevich or Kravtsov, a 1st and Smith. But I doubt that's the preferable option.

 

[TBF1972]

Buyout Coburn. Opens another 1.1M in cap space. Buyout Johnson as last case scenario. We don't need the assets back immediately anyway. Cap space is more important to us. Done? Anything else needed?

Buying out Coburn doesn't save 1.1m in cap space. The max it saves you in cap space is 400k, if you replace him with a minimal contract. But the issue is clearly my English skills. So write me back in German and I for sure will get your math.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

The big difference between Palat, Johnson and Gourde and the three RFAs is, that the first group is under contract for two or more seasons and have a guaranteed payday. Splitting up the 7.6m between Cernak, Sergachev and Cirelli might not work for all of them:
Cernak 1.8m
Sergachev 3.1m
Cirelli 2.7m

Each one of them looks extremely low even in the flat cap environment and I could see them looking for an offer sheet to force Tampa's hands. If Sergachev signs somewhere for 5m, Tampa could match and have him at a reasonable price, but the other two would be gone without further moves. If Tampa can't move Killorn and one of the other NTC contracts, they probably will have to move one of the three RFAs.
Obviously you could also trade Kucherov e.g. to the Rangers for Fox, Buchnevich or Kravtsov, a 1st and Smith. But I doubt that's the preferable option.

Or buyout Coburn and add 1.1ish million.

Give Serge 3.5, Cirelli 3.1, and Cernak 2. Using your math.

 

[DistantThunderRep]

Buying out Coburn doesn't save 1.1m in cap space. The max it saves you in cap space is 400k, if you replace him with a minimal contract. But the issue is clearly my English skills. So write me back in German and I for sure will get your math.

You might want to look that up.

 

[TBF1972]

You might want to look that up.

i have in capfriendly. first year cap hit is 633'333, second year cap hit is 533'333. but you can't replace him on the roster with an unpaid pylon.

i am not trying to piss you off. i just try to share my opinion of your team's cap situation. i don't expect you to agree to an unfair trade proposal or anything. i am just stating, moving killorn and paquette won't be enough roster turnover this summer. there will be another roster player moving out. buying out johnson is an intersting option. the buyout costs would just spread out over the next 8 years, which is an awful long time.

 

[Flyer lurker]

i have in capfriendly. first year cap hit is 633'333, second year cap hit is 533'333. but you can't replace him on the roster with an unpaid pylon.

i am not trying to piss you off. i just try to share my opinion of your team's cap situation. i don't expect you to agree to an unfair trade proposal or anything. i am just stating, moving killorn and paquette won't be enough roster turnover this summer. there will be another roster player moving out. buying out johnson is an intersting option. the buyout costs would just spread out over the next 8 years, which is an awful long time.

This is one area I am going to agree with you. I think one other 4m+ player has to go other than Killorn to have a 21-22 player roster. And if TBL has to retain 1m on Johnson or 750k on Gourde to make the trade then so be it. And yes I think somewhere there is a happy medium where one of Johnson/Gourde/Palat/Ryan Mc gets moved and its not to balmy Ottawa. Not easy. Not glowing with 1's back. But a way.

If all 4 ntc's go bleep no we won't go then there is an issue. I think fans of 30 teams want there to be an issue so one of Cirelli or Serge have to be traded. If 3 months from now none of the players waive, then feel free to gloat.

 

[HoseEmDown]

The big difference between Palat, Johnson and Gourde and the three RFAs is, that the first group is under contract for two or more seasons and have a guaranteed payday. Splitting up the 7.6m between Cernak, Sergachev and Cirelli might not work for all of them:
Cernak 1.8m
Sergachev 3.1m
Cirelli 2.7m

Each one of them looks extremely low even in the flat cap environment and I could see them looking for an offer sheet to force Tampa's hands. If Sergachev signs somewhere for 5m, Tampa could match and have him at a reasonable price, but the other two would be gone without further moves. If Tampa can't move Killorn and one of the other NTC contracts, they probably will have to move one of the three RFAs.
Obviously you could also trade Kucherov e.g. to the Rangers for Fox, Buchnevich or Kravtsov, a 1st and Smith. But I doubt that's the preferable option.

Those are reasonable numbers for a 1 year bridge deal, it's 1.1M more for Cernak then he makes now, 2M more for Cirelli and 2.2M for Sergachev depending on what bonuses he may have hit. It's not massive raises but raises. Then next off-season we should be able to move two of Johnson, Palat and Gourde to free up 10M + which can go to those guys then.

 

[TBF1972]

This is one area I am going to agree with you. I think one other 4m+ player has to go other than Killorn to have a 21-22 player roster. And if TBL has to retain 1m on Johnson or 750k on Gourde to make the trade then so be it. And yes I think somewhere there is a happy medium where one of Johnson/Gourde/Palat/Ryan Mc gets moved and its not to balmy Ottawa. Not easy. Not glowing with 1's back. But a way.

If all 4 ntc's go bleep no we won't go then there is an issue. I think fans of 30 teams want there to be an issue so one of Cirelli or Serge have to be traded. If 3 months from now none of the players waive, then feel free to gloat.

seems like we are in full agreement, as i just stated exactly this.

 

[TBF1972]

Those are reasonable numbers for a 1 year bridge deal, it's 1.1M more for Cernak then he makes now, 2M more for Cirelli and 2.2M for Sergachev depending on what bonuses he may have hit. It's not massive raises but raises. Then next off-season we should be able to move two of Johnson, Palat and Gourde to free up 10M + which can go to those guys then.

their agents definitely will have different numbers on their mind and they will use point as a comparable.

 

[bert]

Yeah, yeah. Ok

Smartest guy in the room. With hindsight. Drouin was downright dominant in his draft year, an incredible player to watch. Its funny that he is pretending to know more than debatably the best drafting team in the entire NHL.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I'd offer to take Gourde as well and give them ARZ or VAN 1st + McLeod + Mueller

Yeah and Tampa easily declines, And rightfully so.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Is Sergachev really interested in signing an offer sheet for 6 per?

I doubt it.

Nope need to be closer to 8 per.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Sergachev ain't moving.

Agree, Brisebois will find a way to hold onto him. He's still pretty important on the blueline.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Johnson waives for NJ:

Johnson for a 2nd and 5th.

Yeah Johnson isn't leaving a cup contender for a cellar dweller. Not even close he'll waive for a cup contending team perhaps like Colorado.

 

[HoseEmDown]

their agents definitely will have different numbers on their mind and they will use point as a comparable.

Let me know when they hit 40 goals and 90 points if they want to compare to Point. BriseBois will probably use Lebanc as an example for which all RFA's should follow.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Smartest guy in the room. With hindsight. Drouin was downright dominant in his draft year, an incredible player to watch. Its funny that he is pretending to know more than debatably the best drafting team in the entire NHL.

I just gave up. It’s pretty easy to understand why Tampa Bay made that deal and why Montreal went for it as well. I’m not even debating how Drouin never progressed after the trade or how well Sergachev progressed. It turned out to be a good move from Yzerman. Good for him, but to think he had all the answers three years ago and that he was playing “chess” while everyone else was playing checkers is just a dumb comment. He made some good moves and some bad ones, just like every other GMs.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Let me know when they hit 40 goals and 90 points if they want to compare to Point. BriseBois will probably use Lebanc as an example for which all RFA's should follow.

How did that played out for Lebanc? Not well. You think a lot of players will follow in his footstep after how he got f***ed up by San Jose? I don’t think so

 

[HoseEmDown]

How did that played out for Lebanc? Not well. You think a lot of players will follow in his footstep after how he got f***ed up by San Jose? I don’t think so

Really, so how much did he sign for already? You don't know if he got f***ed at all because he hasn't signed his next deal yet.