Post-Game Talk: Sens vs. Leafs, Oct. 12 | Game 1 in the books

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YouGotAStuGoing

Registered User
Mar 26, 2010
19,355
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Ottawa, Ontario
Nope, wasn't around back then.

I maintain that Lidstrom longevity is what puts him above Orr.
Neither was I – my opinion is based more on random clips I've been able to find over the Internet than anything. But yes, SoA said it very well, as far as I can tell.
Orr was amazing both defensively and offensively. He changed the game.

Longevity is important, for sure. But given the choice between exceptional for a long time or generational for a short time, I'd go for the generational player.

That being said, I'd rather have the generational player for a long time... which is why I'm damn glad that Karlsson bounced back so nicely from that Achilles injury.
 

Alf Silfversson

Registered User
Jun 8, 2011
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Lidstrom is probably the best dman ever (yes I said it before and will say it again).

I'd have him behind Ray Bourque who had everything that Lidstrom had but couldl also be a physical beast.

Ohh and to tie into this thread nicely, Bourque was made to look like a midget A player on an 18 year-old's first NHL shift.
 

Rand0m

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
1,272
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It occurred to me the Leafs had 7 players in the WCH who each played about half a dozen "high intensity" games (including exhibition and tournament games). Some of the players were already in game shape and had shaken most of the rust off by then. (vs 1 for us).

Matthews second goal was a beauty. He deserves all the attention he's getting. What else have Leaf fans (I'm including TSN and Sporstnet) had to get excited about in the past decade? Let them have their moment, the Battle of Ontario will be better for it.

PP was much better and PK was perfect. The 2 things that led to this team missing the playoffs last year and 2 of the more direct (easier) things to coach as there is a single focus in each situation. Establishing a 5v5 system takes more times as you have to teach the players what to do in each situation and practice those situations. You also need to get some games in to execute this system, make errors and learn from them. It's the only way a team can improve. As long as the players are told what mistakes were made and how they can correct them then they'll be fine.

I'd even wager that Boucher has a progressive strategy for implementing his system. Step 1 was likely work on special teams (apparently special teams have been starting practice earlier). The following steps are likely establishing positioning in various situations and assigning roles to players. Eventually when you have all the parts (PP, PK, positioning, breakout, zone entries...) you get a cohesive system and it's usually followed by success.

As for attendance, I know I will no longer attend Leafs games at CTC after 2-3 bad experiences at those games. Habs games are fine as it's normally some good natured ribbing and trash talking but when it's against the Leafs, the poor experience/ambiance is just not worth the price and time investment to go from East Gatineau all the way to Kanata and back.
 

Smash88

Registered User
Mar 15, 2012
3,484
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Ottawa
It occurred to me the Leafs had 7 players in the WCH who each played about half a dozen "high intensity" games (including exhibition and tournament games). Some of the players were already in game shape and had shaken most of the rust off by then. (vs 1 for us).

Matthews second goal was a beauty. He deserves all the attention he's getting. What else have Leaf fans (I'm including TSN and Sporstnet) had to get excited about in the past decade? Let them have their moment, the Battle of Ontario will be better for it.

PP was much better and PK was perfect. The 2 things that led to this team missing the playoffs last year and 2 of the more direct (easier) things to coach as there is a single focus in each situation. Establishing a 5v5 system takes more times as you have to teach the players what to do in each situation and practice those situations. You also need to get some games in to execute this system, make errors and learn from them. It's the only way a team can improve. As long as the players are told what mistakes were made and how they can correct them then they'll be fine.

I'd even wager that Boucher has a progressive strategy for implementing his system. Step 1 was likely work on special teams (apparently special teams have been starting practice earlier). The following steps are likely establishing positioning in various situations and assigning roles to players. Eventually when you have all the parts (PP, PK, positioning, breakout, zone entries...) you get a cohesive system and it's usually followed by success.

As for attendance, I know I will no longer attend Leafs games at CTC after 2-3 bad experiences at those games. Habs games are fine as it's normally some good natured ribbing and trash talking but when it's against the Leafs, the poor experience/ambiance is just not worth the price and time investment to go from East Gatineau all the way to Kanata and back.

Well said.

I am in the same boat for Leaf games, just not worth it anymore.
 

ReginKarlssonLehner

Let's Win It All
May 3, 2010
40,765
11,060
Dubai Marina
If he plays like he did last game every night he'll go down as one of the best of all time and I'd be okay with that. Who cares if he made one weak play, he was pretty much the main reason we won that game.

Exactly. He was unbelievable that game except for that one mistake.

Karlsson still finished with 3 points +3 27 minutes 3+ SHTOI and destroyed OT.
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,183
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I got to watch Orr for his entire career and live a few times. IMO he is in the argument for the best ever player not just defenseman. Taking nothing away from Lindstrom who was truly one of the best D to play.

Orr was amazing both defensively and offensively. He changed the game. Every kid playing D (which I was one), wanted to bring some elements of what Orr did to their game even if it was just taping their stick the same way.

Orr's peaks are definitely on another level and his longevity being hampered by injuries is unfortunate but I just find that what Lidstrom did, be elite for that long in an era where being elite is that much harder, to be more worthy of the mantle of "best ever".
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
1,610
Ottawa
A teenager made him his ***** on the second goal for Toronto though.

Is this in reference to the stick lift? I am confused by people saying the goal was amazing/unbelievable, it was a quick stick lift and puck steal on a dman looking the other way then a shot five hole....nice goal and the kid had a hell of a night but it seems some are acting like it is not a fairly common hockey play.....just in this game Brassards goal comes off as much more impressive play to me literally fighting off 2-3 guys and yet I likely wouldn't really ever mention that to anyone without being prompted.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,674
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East Coast
Is this in reference to the stick lift? I am confused by people saying the goal was amazing/unbelievable, it was a quick stick lift and puck steal on a dman looking the other way then a shot five hole....nice goal and the kid had a hell of a night but it seems some are acting like it is not a fairly common hockey play.....just in this game Brassards goal comes off as much more impressive play to me literally fighting off 2-3 guys and yet I likely wouldn't really ever mention that to anyone without being prompted.

Did you see the lead-up to the goal? He pretty much got around everyone on the ice after batting the puck out of the air for a steal.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
1,610
Ottawa
Did you see the lead-up to the goal? He pretty much got around everyone on the ice after batting the puck out of the air for a steal.

Certainly did as i was there and saw 300 highlights of it afterword's lol....Batting the puck out of the air takes some skill for sure but poking it through two guys legs that are wildly swinging at it isn't really jaw dropping for me personally but to each their own....looking now at it really closely boy was that a comedy of errors from Turris and Hoff.
 

Nordic*

Registered User
Oct 12, 2006
20,476
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Tellus
Regarding the never-ending debate between Orr & Lidstrom.

Orr played against guys who would've been (at least 95%) beer-leaguers by today's standards. Comparing that to the guys Lidstrom faced during his prime, makes very little sense.

That's like claiming that Afinogenov was a better player than Bure, just because he once scored 11 goals in a beer-league game.


But about Karlsson, here's some of the stuff his teammates think about him.

 

Larionov

Registered User
Feb 9, 2005
4,449
2,167
Ottawa, ON
What exactly is the wait to get Chabot into a game, btw? I was disappointed not to see him in the lineup. We know what Boro and Wideman can do - they played here all of last year. There is zero sense having Chabot watching from the press box - either play him to get a look at him or send him back to the Q.
 

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,674
23,387
East Coast
Regarding the never-ending debate between Orr & Lidstrom.

Orr played against guys who would've been (at least 95%) beer-leaguers by today's standards. Comparing that to the guys Lidstrom faced during his prime, makes very little sense.

That's like claiming that Afinogenov was a better player than Bure, just because he once scored 11 goals in a beer-league game.


But about Karlsson, here's some of the stuff his teammates think about him.



It really, really isn't. That's as dumb a comment as can be made on the subject.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,894
31,101
Regarding the never-ending debate between Orr & Lidstrom.

Orr played against guys who would've been (at least 95%) beer-leaguers by today's standards. Comparing that to the guys Lidstrom faced during his prime, makes very little sense.

That's like claiming that Afinogenov was a better player than Bure, just because he once scored 11 goals in a beer-league game.


But about Karlsson, here's some of the stuff his teammates think about him.



For the record, the bold is a complete load of crap,

Beyond that, the never-ending debate is between Lidstrom and Bourque, because Orr is an echelon above either.
 

Upgrayedd

Earn'em and Burn'em
Oct 14, 2010
5,306
1,610
Ottawa
Noticed EK played significant PK minutes and excelled at it.....the haters are not going like that if it continues, one less bullet in the chamber.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,894
31,101
What exactly is the wait to get Chabot into a game, btw? I was disappointed not to see him in the lineup. We know what Boro and Wideman can do - they played here all of last year. There is zero sense having Chabot watching from the press box - either play him to get a look at him or send him back to the Q.

I think it's prudent to give him his first NHL start on the road. Takes some of the pressure off imo.

A few more practices and games to get the team playing the system a bit more consistently could go a long way too, I'd hate for him to have to face as many system break downs in his first game to have as we saw in the game vs Toronto.
 

Rand0m

Registered User
Oct 2, 2011
1,272
987
Regarding Chabot, I'm sure the idea is that the coaching staff wants him to get a few more practices in as well as watch a few games from the press box. A look from above for a couple games can definitely help for a rookie like that
 

tfantasy

Pirate of Bengal
Jun 1, 2008
474
18
Not sure why I took Hoffman in my pool this year. He was riding the bench against Toronto. Couldn't keep up with Matthews and Nylander and the kids
 

Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
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6,989
Regarding Chabot, I'm sure the idea is that the coaching staff wants him to get a few more practices in as well as watch a few games from the press box. A look from above for a couple games can definitely help for a rookie like that

I'm looking forward to seeing him play. He's going to help the team, his speed is really going to be noticeable. His passing will really help with breakouts.
 

Tragedy

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
1,340
776
Regina, SK
Not sure why I took Hoffman in my pool this year. He was riding the bench against Toronto. Couldn't keep up with Matthews and Nylander and the kids

He was 3rd on the team among forwards for TOI behind Stone and Turris who got PK time while Hoff didn't.
 
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Tuna99

Registered User
Sep 26, 2009
14,941
6,989
Hoff didn't deserve 20-25 minutes vs the Leafs. It might have been his worst game in the entire 2016 calendar year.

I'm fine with him getting heaps of ice-time when he's on, but this game wasn't one of those times.

If he keeps this up he'll be on the 4th line. He was our most disappointing player. He was a giveaway machine.
 
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