OT: Sens Lounge LXXXXI - Lying is bad, mmkay?
- Thread starter YouGotAStuGoing
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Well, you aren't getting any money back anyways, so I guess it doesn't matter where you bet your money.
MakeOttawaGreatAgain
Illest guy in town!
- Feb 28, 2007
- 4,055
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So I'm planning my first vacation in over 5 years, and I really want to go to Muscle Beach (In L.A.)
Flights look reasonable, less than $300 with tax. I'm just planning on going to the gym all day and then checking out girls in bikinis and eating hamburgers.
Anyone been to LA have any good places to stay/visit? I don't really care about downtown stuff, mostly just want to relax and hopefully meet Arnie
Flights look reasonable, less than $300 with tax. I'm just planning on going to the gym all day and then checking out girls in bikinis and eating hamburgers.
Anyone been to LA have any good places to stay/visit? I don't really care about downtown stuff, mostly just want to relax and hopefully meet Arnie
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Of course, the guy writing this is also the one recommending a life of lies as the way to get ahead, so, who knows who dodged what
Agreed. That lying bug is a nasty thing....when it works in one area of your life, it can become a habit in a hurry....
Sensinitis
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2012
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Thanks guys. I don't mind saying it here.
I'm finishing my bachelor in Law and I'm still really unsure on whether I wanna become a notary or a lawyer. Also I feel like these are high stress jobs that maybe I won't be able to deal with. Maybe I'm just too stressed at the moment because I've had 3 years straight of school (including summers), so I'm kinda burnt out.
Mix that with insecurities like losing my hair a bit and I feel the heat sometimes. I wanna start meditating. I did 5 minutes before and it felt good.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Is it possible to go the notary route for a few years, then go back to school to become a lawyer if the notary route doesn't work out? Or would you be starting from scratch, school-wise?
Sensinitis
Registered User
- Aug 5, 2012
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Right now I'm not a lock to get accepted into notary school because my GPA is under. But apparently they accept most people who apply because usually not many people fill the classes. I'm also taking classes like Fiscal law because they're pre-requisites and they're hard classes that I wouldn't have to take if I was sure I wasn't going to notary school. It's like added stress for potentially no reason.
But yeah, it's possible. I can be a notary for 10 years and then go to Bar school and become a lawyer (it's just a year). The pre-requisite to become a lawyer is the 3 years of law school and to pass the bar exam in Quebec. So I would just have to pass that test basically.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,186
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I considered law school at one point myself but I have serious problems when it comes to stress so I backed out.
That being said, there are lawyers on this board so they might be able to give you some advice!
That being said, there are lawyers on this board so they might be able to give you some advice!
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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It sounds like notary is a solid option. I'd even stick with the harder class, too. If you know you're pretty much a lock to get in, it's a great option to keep in your back pocket (which is good to have when you're stressed...knowing there is another option).
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
From an employer's standpoint - If you lie on your resume, who's to say you won't lie about other things while on the job?
If I know an employee has lied on their resume, what else are they lying about? I clearly can't trust them to handle money, either. They've clearly set a precedent that they're willing to lie to get ahead, how far into the job description does that set of ethics go? I can't trust them to be honest about reports, clients, projects. I can't trust them to be honest about conflicts of interest, or to be factual when something goes wrong with a client/account/workplace. How much are they willing to lie to get themselves out of a sticky situation? How much are they going to fudge the numbers to get that bonus?
Untrustworthy employees are useless employees, as far as I'm concerned (again, speaking from the employer's standpoint, here).
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
I have a cousin who was a lawyer (well, I have several, but this is about one in particular) for 10 years and got out because of stress. He works at city hall now, says it's the best decision he ever made, because he goes home at the same time most days and spends time with his family, which was never a guarantee as a lawyer.
One thing he always said though was that if you want to be a lawyer AND a family (or any free time, for that matter), you should go into IP law. It has the most regular business hours of any branch of law. least amount of stress, too.
Just food for thought, I guess.
Also: welcome to the club on that hair loss thing. You get used to it. Just take it down to a quarter inch (or bic it), and you're good to go. Just make sure you buy a quality toque for the winters.
saskriders
Can't Hold Leads
Did you want to be a lawyer since you were young? Do you have any pressure to become one? Just don't feel like you have to do it if you don't think it is right for you. If you still think it is right than I would agree with the people saying notary. If you really don't know if law is the right career path than try and get a taste for a career. Are there any jobs you can do with your current degree that would give you some industry experience?
This is where we disagree... The job market is tight as is... Anything to get you in the door... Hard work keeps you at a job.
My brother flat out forged his high school diploma from China and got a killer welding job at 25$ and had all his tickets and welding school payed for because of a lie
His daughter does not have to grow up struggling... He can support his family... He's looking into underwater welding now that pays big time money
not bad for a kid who dropped out of high school at 16 to look after his family.
I'm actually so proud of him
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
You're looking at it from the view of an employee. I'm looking at it from the view of an employer.
I'm not trying to be rude or anything here. Just saying. Two different mindsets.
saskriders
Can't Hold Leads
I am not going to deny that it is too difficult to break into an industry without experience. You abondon any sence of morality by lying though.
BonkTastic
ಠ_ಠ
Look, ok, here's the thing.
No one is saying that you can't benefit from lying. You absolutely can, in life, in your career... there's clearly enough evidence out there to support that.
What I think I and a lot of others here have been saying is that, aside from the moral questions raised (and as someone who minored in Ethics Philosophy in university, we can have a whole thread about that if we want, I can go on for hours), there is inherent risk involved in lying on your resume, lying in your career, lying to get a job.
I'm not talking about the internal struggle of being dishonest here, I'm talking about taking a risk, and understanding that the risk you're taking has upsides and downsides.
And let's be real here, Sens - without any malice or intent to insult, it really sounds like your brother was up **** creek without a paddle. HS dropout at 16 with a kid, that's a huge hole to dig for yourself. That sucks. And you know what? Lying to get yourself out of a hole probably has a higher chance to succeed than to fail because what happens if you're caught? You don't have a career, you're not established in any sense of the word, you basically have nothing. There's nothing to lose. You are out nothing if you're caught. I totally get why he did it - his options, as you describe them, were practically non-existent. He was at the very bottom of the totem pole. Again, not trying to be mean. My own brother is a HS dropout (who has since done very well for himself, despite still not having his GED), I know the struggles when you're in your 20's without a HS diploma, I absolutely empathize.
You need to understand that, for a lot of people, the risk ISN'T worth it. For your brother, it was. For someone with a BF, or in a similar industry that chews up and spits out employees without a care in the world, maybe it's a wash. For someone like me who has a bachelor's degree in a specialized field, it almost definitely isn't. For someone like my wife who has a master's degree and works in a very close-knit international community, it's an immediate career killer.
It's a sliding scale, I suppose.
No one is saying that you can't benefit from lying. You absolutely can, in life, in your career... there's clearly enough evidence out there to support that.
What I think I and a lot of others here have been saying is that, aside from the moral questions raised (and as someone who minored in Ethics Philosophy in university, we can have a whole thread about that if we want, I can go on for hours
), there is inherent risk involved in lying on your resume, lying in your career, lying to get a job. I'm not talking about the internal struggle of being dishonest here, I'm talking about taking a risk, and understanding that the risk you're taking has upsides and downsides.
And let's be real here, Sens - without any malice or intent to insult, it really sounds like your brother was up **** creek without a paddle. HS dropout at 16 with a kid, that's a huge hole to dig for yourself. That sucks. And you know what? Lying to get yourself out of a hole probably has a higher chance to succeed than to fail because what happens if you're caught? You don't have a career, you're not established in any sense of the word, you basically have nothing. There's nothing to lose. You are out nothing if you're caught. I totally get why he did it - his options, as you describe them, were practically non-existent. He was at the very bottom of the totem pole. Again, not trying to be mean. My own brother is a HS dropout (who has since done very well for himself, despite still not having his GED), I know the struggles when you're in your 20's without a HS diploma, I absolutely empathize.
You need to understand that, for a lot of people, the risk ISN'T worth it. For your brother, it was. For someone with a BF, or in a similar industry that chews up and spits out employees without a care in the world, maybe it's a wash. For someone like me who has a bachelor's degree in a specialized field, it almost definitely isn't. For someone like my wife who has a master's degree and works in a very close-knit international community, it's an immediate career killer.
It's a sliding scale, I suppose.
Mingus Dew
Microphone Assassin
- Oct 7, 2013
- 5,587
- 4,144
I'm about to embark on my last year of law school, so I can sympathize with what you're going through (to some extent at least).
My advice is as follows, but obviously I'm not a practising attorney so take it with a huge grain of salt. I am also speaking from a corporate/full-service law firm perspective.
1. Lawyers in big markets (in Canada that means Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and to a lesser extent Montreal) have poor work-life balance. You work a lot of hours and, more importantly, your schedule is extremely unpredictable.
2. Lawyers in big markets get paid a pretty great salary right out of school and have good job security, outside of the whole hire-back thing.
3. Only be a lawyer if you actually want that as yor career. Law is not really a transferable degree/job (in term of experience). This is also important for anyone considering law school: it is a terrible idea to become a lawyer because you can't think of something else to do with your life.
I think your situation is a bit different than mine because of the whole Quebec thing, but hopefully that helps. PM me if you want to talk more openly about some of this stuff.
Micklebot
Moderator
- Apr 27, 2010
- 53,919
- 31,129
Of course there will be cases where somebody lies and it pays off. If there weren't, nobody would lie...
But, as an example, if you lie on your resume, and get a gov't job, should they find out, they could revoke your security clearance, which would make you unemployable in the gov't. That's a career ending move right there.
As for your brother, he could have gone out and gotten his GED instead of lying. It's a bit of work, but removes the inherent risk that goes along with lying to get a job. If he got that great job, started a family, and got a mortgage, and then his employer found out and fired him, it could have really put him and his familly in a far worse position.
I'm not saying your brother hasn't made something of himself, or that you shouldn't be proud of what he accomplished, but lying on a resume to get there certainly isn't something to be proud of. That's like saying you're proud of the gambling addict that put his family life savings on black at the roulette wheel and won.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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Thing is, if your brother was honest, he still could've gotten the job. I'll be frank....unless yo are in very specific job (doctor, engineer, lawyer, etc), most of the stuff you learn in school isn't really applied all that much. They want to see the schooling mostly because it displays a level of commitment.
If you walk into an interview under-qualified, but show show a real willingness to be flexible, to learn, and you want to be with that company....you're just as good as the guy with a phone book for a resume.
Two other points....someone willing to lie to get ahead is just as likely to stab that company in the back when a better opportunity comes up. And liability. Some welding job he's a part of falls apart in the future, and records show he wasn't qualified to be on that project, it puts the entire company at severe risk. That has the potential to blackball him from the industry completely.
Stylizer1
SENSimillanaire
Why is the city of Ottawa considering a downtown Tunnel for trucks when the east end has no bridge to get to Gatineau? Force trucks out of downtown and build a bridge that would benefit half your population.
saskriders
Can't Hold Leads
Being a socially awkward unnatravtive guy is the worst. The girl I like's friend pretty much told me to **** off but was okay with the other guy flat out lied about his intentions. fml drowning my sorrows
Here I Pageau Again
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2012
- 8,274
- 2,881
Look, ok, here's the thing.
No one is saying that you can't benefit from lying. You absolutely can, in life, in your career... there's clearly enough evidence out there to support that.
What I think I and a lot of others here have been saying is that, aside from the moral questions raised (and as someone who minored in Ethics Philosophy in university, we can have a whole thread about that if we want, I can go on for hours
I'm not talking about the internal struggle of being dishonest here, I'm talking about taking a risk, and understanding that the risk you're taking has upsides and downsides.
And let's be real here, Sens - without any malice or intent to insult, it really sounds like your brother was up **** creek without a paddle. HS dropout at 16 with a kid, that's a huge hole to dig for yourself. That sucks. And you know what? Lying to get yourself out of a hole probably has a higher chance to succeed than to fail because what happens if you're caught? You don't have a career, you're not established in any sense of the word, you basically have nothing. There's nothing to lose. You are out nothing if you're caught. I totally get why he did it - his options, as you describe them, were practically non-existent. He was at the very bottom of the totem pole. Again, not trying to be mean. My own brother is a HS dropout (who has since done very well for himself, despite still not having his GED), I know the struggles when you're in your 20's without a HS diploma, I absolutely empathize.
You need to understand that, for a lot of people, the risk ISN'T worth it. For your brother, it was. For someone with a BF, or in a similar industry that chews up and spits out employees without a care in the world, maybe it's a wash. For someone like me who has a bachelor's degree in a specialized field, it almost definitely isn't. For someone like my wife who has a master's degree and works in a very close-knit international community, it's an immediate career killer.
It's a sliding scale, I suppose.
I completely agree with you.
From my perspective, it would never ever ever be worth it to lie. I'd have lots to lose. And honestly even when you have nothing to lose going about that honestly is far more respectable than not.
I have a good friend who had a baby and dropped out of high-school. She finished her high-school took a nursing college program and got a job... taking any job she could at the time to provide a great life for her family.
But I do feel like honesty and hard work does lead to a good life. And completely agree with BonkTastic, especially what he thinks from an employer perspective.
On notes of work, Toronto school board is offering teaching jobs to Healthcare professionals. Which is a bit intriguing to me.
From my understanding it is extremely difficult to find a spot were both sides of the water agree for one to be built....kind of funny when you think about it I would imagine years ago people would be beyond excited to create such a bridge and some would feel proud to live right near it....today we seem to want zero advancement especially if it effects anyone even in the slightest!
I agree though we need a few more bridges.....personally would love to see one both in the east and west ends before you get to the downtown area.
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