Speculation: Sens, Lebreton, and the NCC

[FlyingJ]

did you read the post just above ....... it was in that context.

Also pointing out how these developers received public money for soil remediation.

And was this piece of land part of what was annexed by the federal government back in the 60s, which saw the demolishing of buildings in the area? Because last I checked, that was a big reason for Ottawa's municipal government refusing to give breaks on decontaminating the soil at Lebreton.

Not to mention that the land approved for this new condo was owned by the city. Meanwhile, Lebreton is owned by the feds and the NCC.

 

[topshelf15]

And was this piece of land part of what was annexed by the federal government back in the 60s, which saw the demolishing of buildings in the area? Because last I checked, that was a big reason for Ottawa's municipal government refusing to give breaks on decontaminating the soil at Lebreton.

Not to mention that the land approved for this new condo was owned by the city. Meanwhile, Lebreton is owned by the feds and the NCC.

Agreed.....In the end its all government land,they have the final say ...And they want a downtown arena to make sure there will be ridership ...To help offset the cost of the very expensive LRT project....

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Agreed.....In the end its all government land,they have the final say ...And they want a downtown arena to make sure there will be ridership ...To help offset the cost of the very expensive LRT project....

One way or another, it will happen. I do believe the feds also want to help revitalize the city. No one wants a capital city that isn't up to standards, and the loss of those high tech jobs a decade ago and now Phoenix problems have really highlighted just how vulnerable the economy in the city is. The recent push to try and win that big Amazon HQ project, opening up land like Lebreton to development...it's all about upgrading the city as a whole. Get more shiny, big ticket activities and companies in the city, diversify the economy a bit, bring in more people.

 

[topshelf15]

One way or another, it will happen. I do believe the feds also want to help revitalize the city. No one wants a capital city that isn't up to standards, and the loss of those high tech jobs a decade ago and now Phoenix problems have really highlighted just how vulnerable the economy in the city is. The recent push to try and win that big Amazon HQ project, opening up land like Lebreton to development...it's all about upgrading the city as a whole. Get more shiny, big ticket activities and companies in the city, diversify the economy a bit, bring in more people.

Yep Amazon is coming,another 600 jobs in the bank there...Revitalize is the buzz word,the city needs this...The people who live here need this...We need to grow,and embrace industry here,this is nothing but a good thing for everyone

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

And was this piece of land part of what was annexed by the federal government back in the 60s, which saw the demolishing of buildings in the area? Because last I checked, that was a big reason for Ottawa's municipal government refusing to give breaks on decontaminating the soil at Lebreton.

Not to mention that the land approved for this new condo was owned by the city. Meanwhile, Lebreton is owned by the feds and the NCC.

There was public money, for soil mitigation, for the War Museum, under the Brownfields program.

Cost of cleaning up contaminated soil at Ottawa’s LeBreton Flats could top $71 million, National Capital Commission says

 

[Canadian Time]

Downtown Ottawa is going to be fantastic in a few years. LRT, large buildings on Albert, Lebreton, Amazon, etc. It has been years in discussion but it's finally starting to happen.

 

[DrEasy]

Ottawa still needs a proper international airport, with direct flights to more cities in Europe than just London and Frankfort. I guess it will follow the city's growth rather than anticipate it.

 

[topshelf15]

Ottawa still needs a proper international airport, with direct flights to more cities in Europe than just London and Frankfort. I guess it will follow the city's growth rather than anticipate it.

Yeah that would be nice,and pretty sure we could offer more value for the buck...To most carriers...

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Downtown Ottawa is going to be fantastic in a few years. LRT, large buildings on Albert, Lebreton, Amazon, etc. It has been years in discussion but it's finally starting to happen.

Until we find out the tax implications of deal Amazon got

 

[BankStreetParade]

Ottawa still needs a proper international airport, with direct flights to more cities in Europe than just London and Frankfort. I guess it will follow the city's growth rather than anticipate it.

They would have to undergo a massive, massive renovation. The size of the airport itself is too small. You can't operate that many flights out of an airport that size.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Knave]

They would have to undergo a massive, massive renovation. The size of the airport itself is too small. You can't operate that many flights out of an airport that size.

There is the space but with Toronto and Montreal so close... I don't really see it happening within my lifetime and I'm not old.

 

[Ray Kinsella]

There is the space but with Toronto and Montreal so close... I don't really see it happening within my lifetime and I'm not old.

Wait... what do you consider old??? ......................

 

[ottawah]

There was public money, for soil mitigation, for the War Museum, under the Brownfields program.

Cost of cleaning up contaminated soil at Ottawa’s LeBreton Flats could top $71 million, National Capital Commission says

Yes, but Watson has specifically stated (heard him on the radio personally) that the brownfields program would not be covering this cleanup.

 

[topshelf15]

Until we find out the tax implications of deal Amazon got

Meh, there will be 600 new taxpayers ...And those 600 employed people can also use their paychecks to buy hockey tickets,or houses how about cars????All of which helps the economy ....

 

[FlyingJ]

There was public money, for soil mitigation, for the War Museum, under the Brownfields program.

Cost of cleaning up contaminated soil at Ottawa’s LeBreton Flats could top $71 million, National Capital Commission says

A museum is a public institution. An NHL arena, condos, restaurants/bars, etc. are private businesses.

Meanwhile, as Watson noted with 900 Albert, the city owned land had little going for it in terms of development without City Hall helping out. Lebreton Flats is possibly the biggest development opportunity in a major Canadian city what with the sheer amount of land available.

I just wish there was a way for the City to legally force Trinity to ensure 900 Albert will have 25% of its residences be affordable housing.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Yes, but Watson has specifically stated (heard him on the radio personally) that the brownfields program would not be covering this cleanup.

Yes, I heard him say that too. However the deal that was worked out with the NCC, pretty much does the same thing. The cost of the soil clean up, is going to be deducted from the market value of the land being purchased.

It amounts to the same thing, as the taxpayer owned land will not bring back full market value to the treasury department's coffers. So instead of the municipal taxpayers money being used, the Federal Tax payer in covering the cost.

 

[FlyingJ]

Yes, I heard him say that too. However the deal that was worked out with the NCC, pretty much does the same thing. The cost of the soil clean up, is going to be deducted from the market value of the land being purchased.

It amounts to the same thing, as the taxpayer owned land will not bring back full market value to the treasury department's coffers. So instead of the municipal taxpayers money being used, the Federal Tax payer in covering the cost.

Last I checked, nothing had been confirmed in terms of off-setting the cost of the soil contamination, whether from the feds or the city (the latter of which has openly said they won't provide tax breaks for).

Unless you have inside knowledge of your daddy, Eugene, negotiating something with the NCC in this regard?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Last I checked, nothing had been confirmed in terms of off-setting the cost of the soil contamination, whether from the feds or the city (the latter of which has openly said they won't provide tax breaks for).

Unless you have inside knowledge of your daddy, Eugene, negotiating something with the NCC in this regard?

No insider knowledge, I just read the newspapers, and watch the local news coverage on TV.

I guess you missed the Media coverage of the announcement way back in January, when the RendezVous LeBreton Group and the NCC came to an agreement in principle to develop the 21 hectares of land at LeBreton Flats


NCC, RendezVous strike LeBreton Flats deal | CBC News

"A major condition of the agreement is that RendezVous LeBreton will pay full market value for the land. The NCC will subtract the amount it costs to clean up the contaminated soil — expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars — from the final purchase price, though no figures have been agreed to."

 

[ottawa]

For the record, I still don't think this arena is going to get built as long as Melnyk owns the team.

I fully expect a soft PR campaign over the next 1-2 years extolling how great the Kanata arena is (regardless of the truth of those claims), and the NCC will eventually move on to another developer to build the Lebreton site.

I think the ball will start rolling fast if the government agrees to decontaminate it themselves like they should, provided it's done soon. No one in their right mind will buy a contaminated property, especially not someone as cheap as Melnyk.

From my understanding, GC's proposed a budget in 2016 and now we're in 2018 and there's been no movement on this at all and one of the main reasons is due to the soil. So if that issue doesn't get solved fast, this will get ugly even faster with the continuous rising costs of building material. I'd hate to see what the re-priced budgets are from the GC's (the steel industry has seen increases of 31% this year alone, and apparently the lumber market hasn't been too kind either)

I don't think you'll see any campaigns from Melnyk being stretched that far out, it's in his (and whoevr else is financing the arena) best interest to resolve the contamination issue asap from a price standpoint. The company I worked for played a large role in the building of the Scotia Bank center, and we've seen increases of 31% (you probably know which industry) this year alone...so imagine what the budget price was in 2016 and imagine how bad it must look midway through 2018, we're not talking just a few million dollars.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I think the ball will start rolling fast if the government agrees to decontaminate it themselves like they should, provided it's done soon. No one in their right mind will buy a contaminated property, especially not someone as cheap as Melnyk.

The NCC signed an agreement in principle, in January of this year, with RendezVous LeBreton (the Melnyk lead group) to redevelop LeBreton Flats, on the condition that RendezVous LeBreton pays the full market value for the 21-hectare site, and that the NCC subtracts the cost to clean up the contaminated soil.

Marco Zanetti, of the NCC, told the media back in January, that the cost of the land will be determined only after the final cost of the soil decontamination is known, which is not going to be done all at once, but "as you go" over the 15 to 20 year period the re-development is expected to take, starting with the new Arena.

 

[ottawa]

The NCC signed an agreement in principle, in January of this year, with RendezVous LeBreton (the Melnyk lead group) to redevelop LeBreton Flats, on the condition that RendezVous LeBreton pays the full market value for the 21-hectare site, and that the NCC subtracts the cost to clean up the contaminated soil.

Marco Zanetti, of the NCC, told the media back in January, that the cost of the land will be determined only after the final cost of the soil decontamination is known, which is not going to be done all at once, but "as you go" over the 15 to 20 year period the re-development is expected to take, starting with the new Arena.

Do we know what the immediate cost is going to be for the area on which the arena + LRT + parking lot are going to be built.

 

[Micklebot]

The NCC signed an agreement in principle, in January of this year, with RendezVous LeBreton (the Melnyk lead group) to redevelop LeBreton Flats, on the condition that RendezVous LeBreton pays the full market value for the 21-hectare site, and that the NCC subtracts the cost to clean up the contaminated soil.

Marco Zanetti, of the NCC, told the media back in January, that the cost of the land will be determined only after the final cost of the soil decontamination is known, which is not going to be done all at once, but "as you go" over the 15 to 20 year period the re-development is expected to take, starting with the new Arena.

Adjusting the purchase price by the cost of the remediation expense is a pretty convoluted way of saying the NCC will pay for the soil remediation. Why bother liking it to the purchase price at all... there seems to be missing details here if you ask me.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Do we know what the immediate cost is going to be for the area on which the arena + LRT + parking lot are going to be built.

Well the LRT is nearing completion, and is scheduled to become operational later this year, so well ahead of whenever the Arena is even started.

​

The cost of the soil reclamation for the LRT is probably being borne by municiple taxpayers in some form.

There is essentially not going to be a parking lot at the new arena.

They announced there would be fewer than 500 parking spots, mostly for operational staff, and on game days, the players. I for one would never consider driving to an Arena in Lebreton Flats, that is going to be services so well by public transit, sitting pretty much on the east west LRT and the end of the north south O Train line.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Adjusting the purchase price by the cost of the remediation expense is a pretty convoluted way of saying the NCC will pay for the soil remediation. Why bother liking it to the purchase price at all... there seems to be missing details here if you ask me.

I guess it's because they don't know how much it's going to cost, until they actually start construction and soil remediation over the projected 15 to 20 years it's going to take to complete the entire project.

Like I mentioned before, they're going to be doing it, "on the go" and some places may be worse than others.

And the Real-estate prices could also fluctuate over 15 to 20 years, affecting the "fair market value" of the land.